How do I know if someone is submissive?

[The Lionheart]

There's a woman I know who I think may be submissive. Of course I could simply try and come on as a dominant to her and see how she responds, but if I'm wrong that could be dissastrous. So my question is, is there some way that I can know to a fair degree of certainity if someone has highly submissive qualities? Are there certain things that almost all submissives say, do, or otherwise react to that I could look out for to know for sure? Even if it's something smaller than that, any help would be appreciated.

 

[RJMasters]

A more subtle approach

I am a big fan of communication. It is key. I am sure there are things others will add to help you in this Lionheart, but here is my suggestion.

I would, during a conversation, comment on how quiet and gentle her spirit is, and how you find that attractive in a woman. This might be a subtle way of approaching the subject. You might even ask her what things she finds attractive in a man.

There are many women and men who are by nature submissive. Other than wearing some submissive symbol like jewelry or a tatoo which is a dead give away, it can be hard to sperate a person who is just submissive by nature from one who has embrace a submissive lifestyle.

For various good reasons, many submissives do not advertise what or who they are. So my suggestion, which might avoid the destaster you mentioned, is to ask questions, or make comments which you know would allow a submissive to communicate and reveal who she is to you, if that is what she wants.

Good luck to you.

 

[Vixandra]

Ask her if she's read "The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty" and if she understands Beauty's submission. Watch for slap. J/K

Okay, seriously speaking- she may be naturally submissive or lifestyle submissive- only way you'll find out is if you talk to her. If you're friends that are close enough to talk frankly ask her during a frank conversation what she things about spanking/BDSM/etc.
Communication's my recommendation too.

 

[Safphyre]

Yeah I am thinking the best way is to just ask

 

[graceanne]

If you figure out a way to tell if someone submissive just by watching them, then a lot of the threads here are gonna me moot. Cause we've pointed out that sometimes submissives aren't obvious about it. For one thing, we can get ridiculed a lot for it. Womens lib and all that. Ask her. Say "are you a submissive?" if she looks at you like your a freak, then back peddle. Say something like. "I meant a submissive personality, cause you're just so quiet and sweet." or soemthing like that.

 

[SweetDommes]

For one thing, we can get ridiculed a lot for it. Womens lib and all that.

[highjack]
It's not just women's lib ... and in general, female submissives take a lot less shit about it than male submissives (at least in our experience. [/highjack]

On the topic, I'm with what everyone else has said - talk to her about it. Don't be rude, go slowly, but talk to her about it and see what she says. You'll never know if you never ask.

 

[graceanne]

[highjack]
It's not just women's lib ... and in general, female submissives take a lot less shit about it than male submissives (at least in our experience. [/highjack]

I didn't mean to say that only female subs take a lot of shit, but in my case I don't get trouble for the same reasons that males do, I have to deal with womens lib. Namely from my family. So, I'm sorry if I offended.

 

[SweetDommes]

Eh, wasn't offended, but knowing that eventually I will have to deal with my family to explain sylvan pet's relationship with me (and kick the asses of half of them as they decide to try and abuse/use his submissive personality), I just felt the need to point out that it's not just women that have the trouble ... and yes, I know that it's a totally different set of shit for women than for men, but it all sucks. My mom caught hell from her sister for quitting her job when she was pregnant with the older of my brothers - of course, the fact that her sister dumped her first kid on my mother to raise while she kept working like the good 'woman's libber' that she was didn't matter ... ug

In general, people suck, and it's (unfortunately) never easy to be openly submissive... and often not easy to be openly dominant either ... *sigh* if only this were a perfect world *keeps dreaming*

 

[ethereal~minx]

There's a woman I know who I think may be submissive. Of course I could simply try and come on as a dominant to her and see how she responds, but if I'm wrong that could be dissastrous. So my question is, is there some way that I can know to a fair degree of certainity if someone has highly submissive qualities? Are there certain things that almost all submissives say, do, or otherwise react to that I could look out for to know for sure? Even if it's something smaller than that, any help would be appreciated.

Lionheart, baby are you looking for someone to play with
or someone to have a relationship with? maybe I'm reading this wrong but it appears that you are looking for submissive qualities first before even allowing the magnetism of a connection. if there's a connection, it's a connection and if it's a connection, the dominance and submission is natural~~ the challenge is communication but the beauty is the strength of the two individuals : )

 

[Learn Humility]

A question.....

Presumably, this is someone with whom you'd like to have some sort of romantic entanglement with.

Is she being submissive a requirement? If it turns out that she's pure vanilla, are you still interested?

If you're interested even if she's not submissive, then there's really no reason to find out in advance, is there? I mean, you're going to want her on her terms, right? So just go out with her, and the first time the two of you are in bed, try something light, like pinning her hands behind her back or over her head, or a few playful spanks, and see what happens.

If you absolutely must know her views on D/s beforehand, try this as a conversation starter (It has worked for me in the past):

While talking to her, wait until the conversation becomes somewhat sexually oriented, as it inevitably will.

Then advance the following theory:

"Everyone, whether they realize it or know it or not, is either sexually dominant or submissive. If you don't know which you are, that's because it hasn't been 'brought out' in you yet. You weren't with the right person, or in the right circumsatnces"

If she says that she leans towards submissiveness, you're in

If she expresses no leanings in either direction, ask her which she thinks she might prefer. If you can't get a preference out of her, at least you have shot.

If she says she prefers the dominant role, well, start looking elsewhere....

 

[The Lionheart]

Thanks for the responses, and I'll definitely ask her. We aren't exactly close, but we do on occasion speak with each other. I'd be interested in her regardless anyway, there's just something about her that strikes me as submissive. She's extremely compromising, and quiet/sweet. On the other hand she is outgoing in a way, so I'm not sure.

So yeah, I'll just try and find a way to ask her. I do however, have one question. What's this abou tattoos and jewelry being a dead giveaway. Are you saying if a man or woman has jewelry on all the time (or a tatoo) that he/she's more likely to be a submissive or that this is something that almost certainly means they are. I only ask because I'd never heard that before, and because I know several people who wear jewelry/have tatoos that come across as the exact opposite of submissive to me.

Thanks everyone. ^_^

 

[rosco rathbone]

My subdar looks for many small clues; some of which I conciously know and others are just a feeel thing.

I will reveal one of my secrets gratis, to the youth:

There's something I call the submissive smile . It's a pure knuckling-under thing. Stare hard into her eyes and say something a bit aggressive, but with a small smile to give her an out. Then watch the play between her eyes and mouth. In many cases you will see her eyes stay wide and focused on yours, not "smiling eyes" at all...but her mouth will do this rapid smile, unsmile, smile flickering thing.

 

[Marquis]

I'm definitely familiar with the smile flash, and that's a good early warning sign.

Personally, I usually wait until things get sexual to try and determine if my female du jour is on the subby side. I carefully observe her reactions to light bites, hair tugs and ass slaps. Most girls won't object to these things, but every once in a while you'll get the girl that'll put that wonderful arch in her back when you pull her hair and you know she's asking for more.

 

[keikotied]

It is a good question though, are there "signs?"

My guess is that no one would *ever* peg me as a sub.

I am always more comfortable revealing it on my own terms and if I was asked, I am honestly not sure how I would respond.

Keiko

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm definitely familiar with the smile flash, and that's a good early warning sign.

Personally, I usually wait until things get sexual to try and determine if my female du jour is on the subby side. I carefully observe her reactions to light bites, hair tugs and ass slaps. Most girls won't object to these things, but every once in a while you'll get the girl that'll put that wonderful arch in her back when you pull her hair and you know she's asking for more.

Yeah, seems like you are far more into the "pick 'em all up (ie in the bar) and let God sort 'em out" approach. More power to you. Surely, though, at this point, you must start vibing on them earlier.

Thinking about it, I realized what the real deal is with that smile. It's that smile that (some) girls are taught to give in all situations. The, this smile will cover all uncomfortable situations smile. I think they learn it from their mothers or maybe their peers in about 6th grade. It is a total red flag for the subdar. It says "You are making me scared and uncomfortable but I am still going to try to appease you".

 

[Evaleastaristev]

Thanks for the responses, and I'll definitely ask her. We aren't exactly close, but we do on occasion speak with each other. I'd be interested in her regardless anyway, there's just something about her that strikes me as submissive. She's extremely compromising, and quiet/sweet. On the other hand she is outgoing in a way, so I'm not sure.

Hon, you just described me, and I'm definately submissive. Ofcourse, it is true that she may be sexually dominant, as I've met Dom/mes with that sort of personality.

I would suggest just going for a date, and on the second or third date, to make sure that she's truly interested, bring up the subject. As you stated you're interested either way, Go for the relationship first, before trying to define what sort of relationship it is.

 

[Evaleastaristev]

My subdar looks for many small clues; some of which I conciously know and others are just a feeel thing.

I will reveal one of my secrets gratis, to the youth:

There's something I call the submissive smile . It's a pure knuckling-under thing. Stare hard into her eyes and say something a bit aggressive, but with a small smile to give her an out. Then watch the play between her eyes and mouth. In many cases you will see her eyes stay wide and focused on yours, not "smiling eyes" at all...but her mouth will do this rapid smile, unsmile, smile flickering thing.

I don't know if I've ever done that smile. For me if I'm feeling submissive to someone, I'll almost never meet their eyes. It just seems rude to me to do that.

Of course, if I don't feel submissive at all, which is almost every time in my life unless I meet someone that clicks, I'll never back down from anything.

But I definately see your point about the smile. I've seen it before.

 

[RJMasters]

I do however, have one question. What's this abou tattoos and jewelry being a dead giveaway.

I am sure there are better links than this, but this will give you the gest of what I meant when I said that.

http://www.cufsmaine.org/bdsmflag.htm

you can also try a google search on BDSM symbols and on BDSM jewelry.

Hope this answers your question

 

[A Desert Rose]

I've not read this thread past the original post... sorry if I'm redundant.

Most submissives are submissive to dominant personalities and exhibit their submission in body language, mostly. I don't think I need to explain the body language to you. I'm sure you're smart enough to know it when you see it. ;-)

 

[Netzach]

My subdar looks for many small clues; some of which I conciously know and others are just a feeel thing.

I will reveal one of my secrets gratis, to the youth:

There's something I call the submissive smile . It's a pure knuckling-under thing. Stare hard into her eyes and say something a bit aggressive, but with a small smile to give her an out. Then watch the play between her eyes and mouth. In many cases you will see her eyes stay wide and focused on yours, not "smiling eyes" at all...but her mouth will do this rapid smile, unsmile, smile flickering thing.

Potentially so. I do this with the boys and the ones I want tend to look away first. My mouth tends not to know what shape to make when I'm feeling the adrenaline tell me flee or duke it out.

That can also mean "you freak, you're freaking me out and I don't want to be rude, so I'll stare at your forehead and smile."

 

[Original_Cyn2]

submissive smile

My subdar looks for many small clues; some of which I conciously know and others are just a feeel thing.

I will reveal one of my secrets gratis, to the youth:

There's something I call the submissive smile . It's a pure knuckling-under thing. Stare hard into her eyes and say something a bit aggressive, but with a small smile to give her an out. Then watch the play between her eyes and mouth. In many cases you will see her eyes stay wide and focused on yours, not "smiling eyes" at all...but her mouth will do this rapid smile, unsmile, smile flickering thing.

SECRETS!!! SECRETS!!! You're telling secrets that should take YEARS to learn *soft chuckle*...that's kind of funny but I never realized that I do the same darn thing until I asked my Dom.

 

[Original_Cyn2]

Yeah, seems like you are far more into the "pick 'em all up (ie in the bar) and let God sort 'em out" approach. More power to you. Surely, though, at this point, you must start vibing on them earlier.

Thinking about it, I realized what the real deal is with that smile. It's that smile that (some) girls are taught to give in all situations. The, this smile will cover all uncomfortable situations smile. I think they learn it from their mothers or maybe their peers in about 6th grade. It is a total red flag for the subdar. It says "You are making me scared and uncomfortable but I am still going to try to appease you".

With all the respect in the world I soooo disagree..it's the "could it be another one like me" smile...the hope...the uncertainty...the second look for reassurance...

 

[Esclava]

I don't know if I've ever done that smile. For me if I'm feeling submissive to someone, I'll almost never meet their eyes. It just seems rude to me to do that.

Re: "That smile"... Be careful that it doesn't mean, "Oh, please...Not another Dom-Wannabee that expects me to keel over in submissive faint for him." If the pyl is rolling their eyes - - look out! I KNOW I've never given anyone that smile.

Of course, if I don't feel submissive at all, which is almost every time in my life unless I meet someone that clicks, I'll never back down from anything.

Of course, this describes me to an absolute "T". Lifestyle pyls are not nearly as easy to spot as one might believe (even with SirRosco's secret). At the munches I have attended, I have been asked several times a night - if I have a submissive. My current response is, "I desire one who will allow me to serve."

Body carriage, language, eye contact (or lack of it), don't necessarily scream pyl. All of the above for me scream, PYL - but what you actually see before you is a "Babe In Total Control of Herself" (a title I wear proudly) - as she seeks a PYL to receive the reins from her hands.

Esclava

<snip>

 

[badlilthang]

about that smile

i am a submissive by nature ~ but i am also a very strong woman. I need to be dominant in my every day life - for many reasons ~ and i just thought to share some of my minds wanderings on this with ~is she a submissive or not~...

Some can bring out my submission just like that ~snaps fingers~...my eyes drop for a moment....my posture changes....but my head is high....and even though the Other clearly can see that i am indeed submissive - i also show Them i am NOT a doormat...but that i know where/who i am...i will lift my eyes again - because i need eyecontact to read the Other person..but by lowering my gaze at first - i have told who i am...and it is up to the Other to pick up on it...s...

Others again - push all the wrong buttons within seconds...and that is when that smile is used by me...s...not knowingly...but it just appears...that little challenging smile....or a tad annoyed...~Who do You think You are~kind of smile..it is polite...until my toes are stepped on so intensly - my eyes changes, too. If the "Dom" does not read any of these signals...well - that is when He will soon find Himself alone at that table...s...

Thing is...Someone speaking harshly to me..without knowing me - makes me step away and close down...but merely a look or a quiet word - can make me shake in my boots...and just want to dive to the floor....IN a relationship i can handle harsh treatment - but that side comes out - when i am safe...and knowing that i am loved - also when i am being disciplined....

ok...i so fell off topic here..*LOL*...sorry...

bad~

 

[easyg]

fascinating topic

This is a great topic - for me. I have been curious about this for some time. I have been fortunate to learn some of the dominate submissive lifestyle first hand but with others that are completely new to the idea and have advanced very slowly over the perioud of a couple of years. A little background. I am very close to my best friend and his wife - She is an attractive short haired brunette. She is very loving and comitted person. I'll make the long story short - bad previous marriage - abusive not dominant. My friend and I set out to give her her self esteem back by constant reassurance of how beautiful she was and how great she is. The relationship has advanced over time to where we get together occasionally and she is the sub for both of us, leather, light bondage etc... She is confident in herself and is just purely a submissive personality and she absolutely loves it. He also has a submissive side and occasionally I am the dominant for both. It has been an amazing discovery and experience let me tell you. I can't explain how close we are by all of us revealing this and learning this together. My problem now is, I wish to locate that person as well and have been trying to figure out how you do that. The intensity of the relationship is amazing when you share that level of trust. I think every man would love to have a submissive toy but I want the relationship as well. It seems to be a very difficult thing to put the two together. With some of the women I have gone out with - as suggested above. When the talk would become a little sexually oriented I woudl breach the topic (lightly if not jokingly) of a little leather being mixed in there or maybe tie you up and service you a bit and generally have gotten negative responses. From some that would put on a front of being a little kinky (you know the kind) but if you brought it up "hmm I don't think so". So, My kingdon - My kingdom for a loving sub. I like the information on identifying the signs - very helpful.