How close to the blanket have you been?

[KillerMuffin]

The blanket meaning poverty, totally broke, have no cash. I don't mean the well, gonna have to tighten up and buy Breyers instead of Ben and Jerry's. Not even we're going to have to sell the Porsche and buy something cheap, like a Ford Excursion.

I'm talking the how do we pay rent this month broke. The kind of broke where you have to pay the rent, the phone bill, the electric bill, and buy food, but you can only afford to pick one broke. Have you ever considered what you might do if suddenly you found yourself jobless, homeless, and cashless?

Welfare! Yay. It used to be a stigma to go on welfare, to get food stamps, that government cheese. Nowdays, it's just a thing. The government is trying to reform our welfare state, and there is on denying that we in the US have one. I've heard rumblings from other countries who have similar problems. We still have the so-called street people, the panhandlers, families living in their cars because they can't even afford housing.

We need to reform welfare, we need to get these people off the streets, into houses, and give them the opportunity to learn a viable trade. Last year the IT industry was begging the US government to grant visas to Indian (over in Asia) IT professionals to let them come and fill the jobs that are sitting empty. I discovered recently that you can get grants, loans, and help to go to school full time, but not to feed your family while you're doing it. Day care isn't factored in, nor is living expenses. JPTA is a wonderful thing we have here, but you get no supplementary income. Why can't we give grants for part time school, allowing people to work part time jobs to at least pay for things they need to pay for. We live in a republic where little, if anything is socialized. We pay for our own health care, we pay for our own day care. We pay through the nose sometimes.

Anyone have any ideas about reforming welfare? What's your welfare system like? Any ideas what should be done? General bitches? Just feel like sharing?

 

[CreamyLady]

I have been that broke, KillerMuffin. It was awful, and I don't ever want to be there again.

The trouble is that not everyone can do those high-paying jobs. Some people, no matter how much school or help or pushing, are just not going to learn.

Jobs they can do don't pay very much, and you are back to people who can't pay for housing, child care, health care, utilities, or food. Oh. I forgot clothing; kids have an annoying tendency to grow.

Manufacturing jobs, which generally did pay a living wage, have been sent offshore to a much cheaper labor pool. They've been replaced with very low-paying service jobs, with few if any benefits and absolutely no margin.

People are no longer regarded as individuals, with different capabilities and talents. School is not designed to encourage children to find their talents and develop them with an eye to a happier, healthier human being.

Children are taught to conform, behave, follow the rules, get with the program. If their interests fall anywhere with no profit margin for someone else, they are useless.

I don't know. We shouldn't let anyone starve, or sleep on the streets, or die because of having no health benefits. No one should have to choose between child care or the water bill. While people are being trained for new jobs, they should get assistance, which can be tapered off when they are fully self-supporting. Unfortunately, in the zealous reform of the 90's, such assistance was considered "entitlement," and therefore a bad thing.

Wages are not capital, they are not wealth. Almost every working person is just a few paychecks away from destitution. I'd like to think the new administration understands this. I'd also like maid service for my house. The chances of either are awfully slim.

 

[ShyGuy68]

I'm in a lot of debt myself too I have to admit, most of it is on my apartment, but some is also a loan I have in the bank.

I'm lucky that the value of my condo have been going up ever since I aquired it 10 years ago, so if I really needed it I could sell it today and be debt free and still have money in the bank.

 

[Thumper]

Been there...

and we are presently two weeks away from being broke...every week evry month every year. We live paycheck to paycheck. We are playing russian roulette with our health because we have no health insurance. And we both work, so it is not because we are lazy or stupid. If I contracted cancer tomorrow it would be terminal...I would not bankrupt my family to try to stay alive...I do have some life insurance. Sad state when dying pays better than living. For all our horn blowing about how compassionate we are as a people we do place a dollar amount on human life and dignity. People die everyday because they can't afford basic medical care. They should change the Hippocratic oath from "First, do no harm.." to "First, secure payment.." If you have the money...you will be assured a long and comfortable life...if you don't well just hope a bus hits ya so it will be quick. Reform Welfare...I'm all for it...right now if you are on welfare at least you can get help if your child breaks his arm or if she gets pneumonia...but as soon as you try to get ahead and get off welfare they pull your medical card and food stamps. I suppose they figure you can pay the doctor on 5.75 an hour...your better off staying on welfare...I know there are some out there that believe those on welfare are enjoying a free ride...they subsist nothing more. It isn't a walk in the park as some think. Work is important...no matter the job. If a man or woman is willing to work then they deserve a decent wage...one that will allow them to raise a family and someday retire. They all say "Go to school, get an education, work hard and you will succeed." Now suppose everyone did that. I mean everyone...can you imagine what this world would be like with nothing but Doctors, Lawyers and Engineers etc running around? Who would sweep the floors in your fancy new offices? Who would change your oil at the Jiffy Lube? Who would ring up your coffe and doughnut at the convenience store in the morning? Who would pick up your trash? When you go to a restaurant who would cook your food and who would bring it to you? Who would haul the toys and trinkets from the factories to the stores so you could buy them?

My point is...if you have a flat tire a brain surgeon is as useless as a Dentist in a WWF crowd. There is a place for everybody in society. We need the manual laborers and menial help as much as or even more than we need the professionals. It is not the place for government to do this but since the corporate entities have abdicated this responsibility then the government must. If it doesn't, our system will eventually collapse...Welfare keeps the hounds of poverty from baying at the doors of those well off. It's all a pyramid with the wealthy occupying the uppermost tiers and the poor and lower middle class at the base...if it gets too top heavy it will fall...and guess who falls the farthest and loses the most. Not me...I can survive day to day. Let's see a former vice president of marketing working the register at a convenience store or sweeping floors for minimum wage. If we down here can no longer afford the basics let alone some of the luxuries, who will buy your wares? No business=no bonus and no dividends for your portfolios. We need the working class much more than we need the executive class.

What was it that Marie Antoinette said in regards to the poor having no bread to eat? "Let them eat cake then?"

They beheaded her...and Louis XIV too....

OK I am done now...Back to the sex stuff

[Edited by Thumper on 01-04-2001 at 01:59 PM]

 

[Curious Guy]

Yes, I have been so broke that I could not even pay attention. Had it not been for friends willing to give a leg up, could still be there.

As for welfare? Maybe, let the ones that are able work for what they get. Pick up litter on the roadways or some other public service that never seems to get done. I have seen times when I would do whatever to turn a buck.

 

[Nobody Special's wife]

I'm kinda use to being broke lol ...The Hubby was laid off...So I'm the only one working at the momment ..BUt I'm off workd from sick leave lol

 

[Wizard]

A few years ago We were in a real bad spot.....My kidney shut down, I had to go on SSI right away (Disability takes a min. of 6 months to get) I got 521 a month and my rent was 525 a month.....Still had to make car payments (allmost lost the car) and pay power bill ect. food ect.
I had a 401 k with a real nice nest egg for the future, I was able to cash out on a medical hardship case.....All gone now....I Used the last of it to pay my rent and din't know where the next months was going to come from.......Cutting it real close my disability came thru and had back time on it so I was able to pay that next months rent and it wasn't to soon.....
We had food stamps and were real down and out....Freinds at work put some cash in a card for us to buy xmas gifts for the kids......I never knew they cared that much.....I mean it was xmas for them too and everyone needed extra cash but they came thru big for us....
Anyhow yes we been there in a bad way........Almost 3 years now and thing are starting to look pretty good and 2 years since the transplant.........

 

[teresafannin]

I have been that broke, as well. A single mother, working full time, with a friend providing fairly cheap babysitting, no child support & I still barely made it each month. My dad helped at times & I received food stamps for 6 months. I was paid weekly, had a five paycheck month & the food stamps were cut off. If I had been willing to stay home, I could have gotten all kinds of welfare, but I have always worked. The system is a disgrace & in Texas, the system is badly abused. It took me 17 months to pay the hospital bill when I had Justin-private hospital & no insurance, but I paid every dime. We need a way for people who need help to get it, but those who just sit home & collect need to learn to support themselves. I could go on for hours about this, but I won't. My sister used to work for WIC, the stuff she saw was disgraceful.

 

[kathy stl]

Yeah Muffin. I have been so broke the morning couldn't break for me.

I was 19 and my head so twisted I needed a road map to go to the potty. In worst thing I have ever done I ran from the people who loved me and coulda helped. Same people took me in years later.

Welfare? the state stuff? No. There is a layer a slime underneath all that. Course thank god I had no kids. So except for the 345 days I spent as a guest of the feds, maybe I didn't cost the state anything. But am wondering what I would a done if I was a male. I mean, I wouldn't had had what I have to get by on.

Bet I woulda trafficked, fucked over, trashed and meaned out whoever it would a taken. People like that don pay their bills. You all do.

War on drugs. Hell with the single moms and hungry kids. No money for them. They tell me costs more to keep me in a cage for a year than I have ever made in a year. Remem that Butch Cassidy movie? old one with Paul Nueman? he says "if they'd pay me as much to stop robbing trains as they spend trying to stop me, I'd stop!"

Loved that movie, but maybe more causs I like Paul Neuman than any stupid message.

 

[Cheyenne]

No. I've never been that close to broke, ever. My family was never more than upper lower class, not quite middle class. But I never knew it until I was old enough to realize it in my late teens,maybe early 20's, because my parents always made sure the kids came first. I've been very lucky.

As for welfare, WI has cut the rolls of the welfare to almost nothing. We have W2. It boils down to you have to go for training and work at a job, not sit home and collect. You still get help with day care, etc. and you may not come out much ahead of where you were on welfare to start with, but your butt is out in the working world. And, in theory, that gives you a chance at improving yourself even more. Our Gov. Tommy Thompson is now going to Washington, assuming he is approved, to try to help do the same for the rest of the country.

 

[CreamyLady]

Theory is a wondrous thing; anything can exist and happen, in theory.

In fact, however, theory often hits a brick wall. I believe that the scientific method, when the facts don't fit the theory, is to ashcan the theory and start from scratch.

In government, the facts are tweaked and pulled and stretched to fit the theory. Of course, they don't, actually, and the gaps show and the seams rip and everyone can see that the theory is shit.

But it is never, ever thrown out. Unlike human beings who don't fit the expectations of those who truly believe in the bootstrap method.

When people are living from paycheck to paycheck, and the balance between existence and disaster hangs on whether or not a parent can go to work because of a sick child, or a transportation strike, or downsizing, or some other thing beyond one's control, all the "get off your ass and you, too can succeed" rhetoric doesn't mean anything.

 

[Ezzy]

You all were just damn lucky...

When I was that poor I didn't even have a blanket.

That is a true time to find out who your friends are and who trusts you as a human being.




EZ http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm2/sleep.gif

 

[Cheyenne]

Theory is a wondrous thing; anything can exist and happen, in theory.

It isn't theory in Wisconsin. It is fact. W2 works and so do the former welfare recipients that are able body people. Not everyone can participate in W2, but those that can, do. If you're going to spend the money anyway, I'd rather spend it on job training, day care, etc. to help these people help themselves.

 

[naudiz]

Re: You all were just damn lucky...

That is a true time to find out who your friends are and who trusts you as a human being.

I'll second that.

I grew up lower-middle class. We didn't have a lot of things, but we always had a roof over our heads, medical insurance, and enough food to eat. I left college to work, because I was burnt out on school and wanted actual job skills. I worked as a CNA until I got a back injury. That's when I learned that worker's comp will screw you as hard as they can. In their quest to catch cheaters, they put legitimately injured people through Hell. Since I didn't have an MRI before my injury I couldn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the herniated disk wasn't there before. How many people here have regular MRIs taken of their entire body 'just in case'? Their stipulation was that I'd had the injury all along and was just waiting for something work-related to blame it on.

Since I couldn't work, and the financial crunch made it impossible to get loans to go back to school, that's when I looked into getting government assistance, and that's when I got told that if I had a child out of wedlock my chances for getting welfare would improve. That's when I told the welfare office to go fuck themselves and I turned to friends and family. Thank God I had friends and family.

After I recovered and got another job, I got sick. Fortunately, around that time, my fiance got the exact same job I had to leave so our finances have remained more or less the same. I wasn't able to get disability for fibromyalgia because there is no test that can be put on paper that proves above and beyond the doctor's own analysis that the disease exists. So despite having four different doctors on four separate occasions diagnose the exact same thing independent of each other: the insurance companies still claim I could be making it all up and somehow got four doctors in on the scam. I could fight the decision tooth and nail, and three years down the road might sway them. In the meantime, the HMO's official assessment is: in pain? Fuck you! At least that's the impression I get everytime an alternative to keeping me drugged to the gills gets nixed.

On the bright side, there is enough money coming into the household to pay for rent, utilities, food, and some bills but not all of them. I hope I never need a credit line because my credit is so bad it'll haunt me the rest of my life. I think it's ironic that the collectors who call have been more compassionate than the medical community. Many of them, upon hearing that I've got work coming up in the future, have gladly given me a grace period so I can get my life together. I guess they're not used to hearing from people who actually want to and intend to pay their bills.

Then there is the medical insurance Catch-22, but I've already beaten that particular horse to death. So I've not only lived close to the poverty line, I spent the better part of a year bouncing from living room couch to living room couch when I was lucky enough to find them. While, I've counted out pan-handled pennies for fast food, I've seen people abusing the system who are living better than I did growing up, and after everything I went through because of these cheaters it makes me so angry I see red.

So yeah. I'd like to see some welfare reform. I want a government job. I want my job to entail being locked in a room with a confirmed welfare cheater, just the two of us, and me with a lead pipe. Now that would be tax payer money well spent.

 

[Ezzy]

Always try and keep them informed...

I think it's ironic that the collectors who call have been more compassionate than the medical community. Many of them, upon hearing that I've got work coming up in the future, have gladly given me a grace period so I can get my life together. I guess they're not used to hearing from people who actually want to and intend to pay their bills.

I was in contact with my creditors, by phone and by letter all the months I was going through the mill.

At the time the mortgage companies were repossesing so many houses in the UK.

I was shocked to be able to keep mine, they told me the reason they did not reposses my house, was that I was straight with them, letting them know about my attempts to find work and take on my full burden again.

It did mean that the debt was rescheduled, and that it cost me in the long term, but I did keep my house and my selfrespect.



EZ http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm2/sleep.gif

 

[Thumper]

FYI

Just some interesting information here...

to rebut the crap coming from the Rush Limbaugh and Walter Williams idiots

Whenever Welfare is brought up as a subject, it invariably turns to the subject of Welfare cheats and "brood sows" (women who have children simply to inflate their welfare payments) this is not my term for them...just repeating what I have heard.

Welfare fraud is running about 0.4% of the total claims...Tax fraud, intentional or otherwise, is right around 36% of all returns.

And over 98% of all households receiving aid have two children or less.

Public perception is way off base with the reality of the situation.

Cradle to grave welfare...another myth...a lot of the young men end up in jail or dead...

While the working class is screaming about the lazy assescollecting a government check just to eat they fail to notice that they are working their asses off and not making much more than those on welfare. You wanna get people off welfare....make work pay a lot more than the dole.

Osmosis!

 

[Earthmuffin]

Not a pot to piss in nor the window to throw it out.

The divorce announcement had hit me like a brick through a plate glass window and the foreclosure papers on the house came the next week. No car, thousands of miles from family, two munchykins. I was a stay at home mom. One morning "Mommy, I want juice, please." Simple statement, big innocent eyes and not a drop of juice to be had in the house. I called a friend begged a ride got my ass to the WIC office. Nice ppl. there understanding, smiling checked the healthy munchy's out. We had juice, milk, cheese, cereal that afternoon.

I bargained with the devil, swallowed my pride, moved halfway to hell. I got a good job (worked for years before the munchy's btw). I won a scholarship, worked full time, mothered the munchy's went to school full time. I did without from time to time, but the munchy's never did. I was on foodstamps for exactly 6 months.

I have my degree, & my munchykins. The second I finished school WIC ended, the childcare assistance was gone, rent went up and doors closed to me. That is well and good, behind me came a g/f who is getting out of an abusive relationship, one munchy of her own and chaos ruling her life. She's in school, full time, working full time and feeding her munchykin WIC food. They're gonna be alright.

How do we reform it and get the lazy bitch down the block with 5 fatherless kids out and working? I haven't a clue. I don't ever want to face an empty refrigerator or another welfare worker ("So you're getting a divorce and you're homeless with two children? Can you give the children to him or do you have a boyfriend?") again.

 

[Cheyenne]

http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/desw2/wisworks.htm
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/innovations/winners/1999/w299.htm

About the Wisconsin Works program. Also known as W2.

[Edited by Cheyenne on 01-06-2001 at 06:13 AM]