How are they the same...

[Kajira Callista]

...or different?
Online D/s relationships and real life D/s relationships.
Can they both be fulfilling and how?
Which do you prefer and why?
Does online feel as real as a real life commitment?
Please lets not flame people here for their choices,this is something i'm interested in understanding from others and from both points of view.
I have been involved in both, only in the opposite way that many have been...real life first..******* many years later.I'll toss in my 2 cents later on.

 

[sunfox]

Real time is pretty much all I'd ever be interested in. For me, a lot of D/s and BDSM is the physical aspect, and without touch and the presence of another person, it's just not the full experience.

Good thread idea, Kajira.

 

[shy slave]

on-line versus real life

As a newbie with limited experience of both here is my 2pence worth

I was in a D/s 'real time' relationship for about a year.
During this year I discovered many aspects of myself and found the whole relationship amazing.
Like opening a door and discovering monsters under the bed are a good thing .
I also discovered that he was essentially, not a shy person but, a weak man.
From then I never felt comfortable with the idea of him as my Master. This may be partly because I love the release being a sub gives me, in work life I can be assertive

Ultimately he found me 'too perverted' (his words) and ended the relationship. I took this pretty badly and had depression for a year or so afterwards

His ending it so brutally shows me know that he was a novice Dom and never understood my needs as a submissive nor as a person.

I am now in an on-line relationship. This is based on trust. I do feel protected by my Master and speak to Him on many aspects relating to my daily life. He makes decisions I abide by them. If He says do x,y and z I do it.
It is difficult to explain how I can feel this way on-line. All i can say is it works for me
We discuss aspects of on-line D/s and He listens to me, of course whether it occurs is decided by Him.
There is no doubt in my mind that He is my Master.

In another thread a Dom (sorry I cannot remember who- they have the lovely av of the cat from aristocats i think) spoke of being ablo to get his sub into the headspace of being his sub/slave.
This is where my Master puts me.

At present I am wary of being with a Master in 'real time' due to the last real -time relationship ended.


However I think sunfox is right, it is not 'the full experience without the touch and the presence of another person'.

At present I prefer an on-line D/s realtionship to not having any relationship at all.

In time this may change, but who I would trust enough, or, if it could be with my on-line Master remains an open question.

Real-time and on-line are different but IMHO both are about trust and head space.

What a great thread I hope some other replies will help me understand where I am and why

shyslave

 

[Kajira Callista]

Real time is pretty much all I'd ever be interested in. For me, a lot of D/s and BDSM is the physical aspect, and without touch and the presence of another person, it's just not the full experience.

Good thread idea, Kajira.

Hi sunfox, thanks for the input. May i ask, couldnt you make the need for touch and presence work online if every other aspect of the relationship worked well?

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: on-line versus real life

As a newbie with limited experience of both here is my 2pence worth

I was in a D/s 'real time' relationship for about a year.
During this year I discovered many aspects of myself and found the whole relationship amazing.
Like opening a door and discovering monsters under the bed are a good thing .
I also discovered that he was essentially, not a shy person but, a weak man.
From then I never felt comfortable with the idea of him as my Master. This may be partly because I love the release being a sub gives me, in work life I can be assertive

Ultimately he found me 'too perverted' (his words) and ended the relationship. I took this pretty badly and had depression for a year or so afterwards

His ending it so brutally shows me know that he was a novice Dom and never understood my needs as a submissive nor as a person.

I am now in an on-line relationship. This is based on trust. I do feel protected by my Master and speak to Him on many aspects relating to my daily life. He makes decisions I abide by them. If He says do x,y and z I do it.
It is difficult to explain how I can feel this way on-line. All i can say is it works for me
We discuss aspects of on-line D/s and He listens to me, of course whether it occurs is decided by Him.
There is no doubt in my mind that He is my Master.

In another thread a Dom (sorry I cannot remember who- they have the lovely av of the cat from aristocats i think) spoke of being ablo to get his sub into the headspace of being his sub/slave.
This is where my Master puts me.

At present I am wary of being with a Master in 'real time' due to the last real -time relationship ended.


However I think sunfox is right, it is not 'the full experience without the touch and the presence of another person'.

At present I prefer an on-line D/s realtionship to not having any relationship at all.

In time this may change, but who I would trust enough, or, if it could be with my on-line Master remains an open question.

Real-time and on-line are different but IMHO both are about trust and head space.

What a great thread I hope some other replies will help me understand where I am and why

shyslave

Hello shy slave. Do you think that you are using online as a way to keep a little distance because you were hurt, and if you overcome that hurt how would you advance your online to equal real life?

 

[Mr Blonde]

BDSM-internet is like a video game based on a real life sport. Such a video game approximates the real thing in a way that is fun to the people who want to do it. You might care if you win or lose a video game, but such a feeling will never match people who have played a real game.

I have played American football in real life and have played it in a video game. Both were fun. In a video game, yes I am calling plays and using my strategy....but the stakes are so small. Mistakes and victories and defeats and conquests are so diminished compared to real life. The sense of phyiscal and emotional exertion cannot be replicated. Or that special feeling where something you had planned, practiced or fantasized about has just taken place.

There is no disrespect to people who prefer internet or use it as a learning tool. Congratulation to them for finding happiness. The scorn is saved for people who would go up to a professional racecar driver and say: "Hey, when I play Racecar2004 for Nintando, I wear a helmet in case I crash! See how real I am?" Crash into what...their coffee table? They have lost all awareness that what happens online is an approximation of real life.

 

[Kajira Callista]

BDSM-internet is like a video game based on a real life sport. Such a video game approximates the real thing in a way that is fun to the people who want to do it. You might care if you win or lose a video game, but such a feeling will never match people who have played a real game.

I have played American football in real life and have played it in a video game. Both were fun. In a video game, yes I am calling plays and using my strategy....but the stakes are so small. Mistakes and victories and defeats and conquests are so diminished compared to real life. The sense of phyiscal and emotional exertion cannot be replicated. Or that special feeling where something you had planned, practiced or fantasized about has just taken place.

There is no disrespect to people who prefer internet or use it as a learning tool. Congratulation to them for finding happiness. The scorn is saved for people who would go up to a professional racecar driver and say: "Hey, when I play Racecar2004 for Nintando, I wear a helmet in case I crash! See how real I am?" Crash into what...their coffee table? They have lost all awareness that what happens online is an approximation of real life.

I just need to understand one part of what you have said...how do you equate two real live ppl interacting to someone playing a video game. I respect your opinion but wanted to know how the two seem the same to you.

 

[sunfox]

Hi sunfox, thanks for the input. May i ask, couldnt you make the need for touch and presence work online if every other aspect of the relationship worked well?

For me, I think probably not. It would always be lacking that physical component that I require to feel really in the right place in my head.

I don't in any way feel online is inadequate, depending upon what the person is getting out of it, but for me, it simply wouldn't be sufficient to meet my desires and needs. I want to feel his hand on me, at the back of my neck, on my ass, touching me. I need the tactile, physical part of the relationship.

for Kajira, and shyslave, who had excellent points as to why online works for her.

 

[Esclava]

I want to feel his hand on me, at the back of my neck, on my ass, touching me. I need the tactile, physical part of the relationship.

I understand those needs, sunfox. I have them as well. Unfortunately I am one like shyslave who came out of a painful relationship and my online Master has restored my desire to embrace my submissive nature once again.

I, too, desire the feel of Master's hands on my body as I crave the touch of His loving hands. He has more than once been frustrated by the distance between us - the inability to feel the response of my body in obedience - and it pains me to hear it in His words. Sadly, it is not my fate at the present time, to be in a place where a physical relationship is possible. Therefore, to feed my hunger for D/s, I turn to my online Master, obey his commands without question and write detailed reports upon their completion when He is unable to view them for Himself.

Great thread - many thanks to Kajira for starting it.

Esclava

 

[incubus'_sub]

My Master and I have discussed this same topic, as when I first started reading here I was surprised to realise that so many people are involved in BDSM online only and truly believe it to be real.

Our feeling is similar to Mr Blonde's, virtual reality is not actual reality although playing the game can be fun in itself.

To the question regarding two real people interacting online equating to a video game, well yes, because you could never be sure online whether the participants are really as they present themselves, or if they are, like you, playing a game.

 

[lark sparrow]

How would this question relate to the online or virtual participation in a "BDSM community" here on Lit, I wonder?

Not to attempt to change the subject, but to broaden the comparison. I would imagine many of the reasons are parallel.

 

[sunfox]

How would this question relate to the online or virtual participation in a "BDSM community" here on Lit, I wonder?

Not to attempt to change the subject, but to broaden the comparison. I would imagine many of the reasons are parallel.

I don't know that the search for information, or participation in a community of people online who share a similar interest can compare, though, to having a one on one relationship online. I don't have much interest in being involved with a group RL, but I like the anonymity of Lit for discussion. I am a private person in that regard.

I did, to be completely open, meet my partner online originally, some five plus years ago, but as friends. We only became romantically linked several years later, after meeting RL. Our time online was spent preparing to be together on a permanent basis, and our D/s involvement didn't start till well after we were physically together.

I think it's interesting to note that both cases thus far of online D/s have been due to bad RL experiences. Out of curiosity, are there any who have an online relationship here for which that is not the case?

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

IMO, online is not real. period. end of story. You can apply that to having a simple conversation here at lit if you'd like. Until I'm sitting across from someone, looking at them, reading their face, and able to discern whether they are being honest or not, do we ever know, REALLY, if someone is "real" or not?

For me, no. I can't figure it out by words appearing on a screen, and skin to skin BDSM is the only kind of BDSM I have ever been interested in.

I have very few "friendships" here, and have met, in person, the few friends (with one very special exception) that I have "online".

I want to see their eyes. I want to see their truth, and their reality. Otherwise, it's all lies and bullshit to me.

~anelize

 

[lark sparrow]

That's not the comparison I was making though - the comparison would be having a one-on-one BDSM relationship online vs. r/l and having a BDSM group relationship online vs. r/l.

I still believe there would be many parallels even though there seems to be a mental separation for many. Anonymity included, I'm sure as one of numerous reasons in each.

 

[sunfox]

That's not the comparison I was making though - the comparison would be having a one-on-one BDSM relationship online vs. r/l and having a BDSM group relationship online vs. r/l.

I still believe there would be many parallels even though there seems to be a mental separation for many. Anonymity included, I'm sure as one of numerous reasons in each.

Ahhh, I see. I didn't quite understand how you were coming at it.

*returns to her regularly scheduled lark stalking*

 

[Mr Blonde]

I just need to understand one part of what you have said...how do you equate two real live ppl interacting to someone playing a video game. I respect your opinion but wanted to know how the two seem the same to you.

Two people can play a game of Pong or they can go to the gym to play a game of racquetball. Both games have things in common but obviously there are differences.

the comparison would be having a one-on-one BDSM relationship online vs. r/l and having a BDSM group relationship online vs. r/l.

I think it is a fair comparison. If you broke out Mazlow's list, my "needs" for a primary BDSM relationship would be very different than my "needs" for a BDSM group (or sense of community).

 

[incubus'_sub]

Well and simply said Mr Blonde. We don't really have a "need" for a community, but we enjoy the discussions and sharing the pros and cons of various activities can be helpful and informative.

For us, BDSM is our sexuality. It helps form our personalities and colours our world, but it does not define who we are or dictate our lives to the exclusion of all else. That's real enough for us.

I think those of us who have real life relationships tend to just live it without so much of the navel gazing and introspective deep thoughts that occupy the minds of those who interact only through the internet.

We are curious to hear from the onliners though, because we really don't understand what you can get from a relationship with an unknown other. To us it seems more of a shared fantasy life, nothing wrong with that, but BDSM to us at least is a very physical thing as well as in the mindset. One without the other would seem a bit pointless except as a bit of occasional fun.

 

[Shadowsdream]

The real time TPE 24/7 relationship I have with My collared slave of five years began online. It remained online and was very deep and fullfilling for both of U/us until W/we moved to realtime. The first year was a LDR mostly online with travelling back and forth between Sweden and Canada.
The online experience built a depth and a trust that worked well.

 

[Esclava]

We are curious to hear from the onliners though, because we really don't understand what you can get from a relationship with an unknown other. To us it seems more of a shared fantasy life, nothing wrong with that, but BDSM to us at least is a very physical thing as well as in the mindset. One without the other would seem a bit pointless except as a bit of occasional fun.

Points taken, incubus'_sub, and I submit that at one point in time the One you serve was "unknown" to you - until it was taken to another level. One cannot discount the fact that there are BDSM novices who have not progressed to the same level in life as those with more than a few years of experience have attained.

I have had a physical D/s relationship and understand how very important the physical part of it is. But if not for the online Master I now serve, I would not have even considered a return to my submissive nature. Fantasy aside, He reminded me that the true D/s relationship is all about the love and trust that is shared. He had to open Himself completely to gain my trust while He teaches me that my obedience to Him so many miles away - is pleasing, desirable and rewarded. And He promises that when I find a real, physycal Master to take His place - if I serve the real one as I have served Him, I will be just as pleasing, desireable and well rewarded.

One must be prudent in one's selection of a Dom, whether real or online. IMHO, those that serve online Doms either desire a real, physical relationship (as I do) or are afraid of a real, physical relationship. Either way, I believe there are advantages to both and I congratulate any one fortunate enough to find happiness in their D/s lives.

Esclava

 

[incubus'_sub]

Thank you Shadowsdream. I can understand using the internet as an introduction to a real relationship, it's just another avenue for meeting people. Most of us these days have good friends with whom we communicate this way, but having a circle of online friends to talk to seems quite different to considering yourself to be, for example, a collared sub to a Master halfway across the world and believing you must obey their every command. The illusion of being controlled may be very strong and enjoyable, yet to us it remains just that, an illusion, a game, a fantasy.

From reading here it appears that these online commitments are treated as being very real and serious. There is a great deal of discussion about the growth of trust, personal development, getting in touch with one's feelings and needs. Then you read about the disappointing Master before this one and perhaps the one before that and realise that these online pairings are probably not as satisfying or real as the writers would like to believe or have others believe.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Thank you too, esclava, for your well written answer.

Yes, My Master was unknown until we met, LOL, and it was actually over 5 years before the timing was right for us to fall in love.

I have always known I was a sub, just didn't know the terminology. I have spent most of my life trying (without much success) to interest my former partners into satisfying those needs. However, it has never occurred to me to be a pretend online sub. In the back of my mind it would always be a "this isn't real, what on earth am I doing this for" thing.

We have ourselves enjoyed phone & internet conversations. It's hot, it's fun, but I always knew that if I disappointed or failed in some way that the consequences would be real, not imagined.

So I suppose my question has to be what do you actually get out of this, as opposed to just having a good & understanding online friend and how do you onliners convince yourselves that it's a real BDSM relationship?

 

[Esclava]

Is not a commitment a commitment - whether online or in real life? If a slave believes the commitment to Master is real, then the option to be obedient is just as real - there is NO option.

I would like to talk to any one that woke up one morning and said I want to be submissive to a loving, nurturing, trustworthy Dom; then found one without the benefit of either trial and error or the assistance that this online meeting place affords. IMHO, I believe that for those who have had disappointing online D/s relationships, one or the other in the pair did not have the level of commitment needed to sustain it in the first place.

Whether you serve online or in real life, the value of the relationship can be seen in the commitment that has been made between the Dom and the sub - not in where the service is accomplished.

Esclava

 

[Esclava]

We have ourselves enjoyed phone & internet conversations. It's hot, it's fun, but I always knew that if I disappointed or failed in some way that the consequences would be real, not imagined.

So I suppose my question has to be what do you actually get out of this, as opposed to just having a good & understanding online friend and how do you onliners convince yourselves that it's a real BDSM relationship?

As we were composing responses at the same time, I did not see your post until I posted mine.

If I fail my Master, the consequences ARE real - administered by my own hand, but real nevertheless. The punishing sting of a wooden spoon on your clit may be harder in the hands of a real Master, but its sting is painful without a doubt. But his praise and rewards are as real as anything I've ever felt.

And the love received from Master is a bonus.

Esclava

 

[incubus'_sub]

Actually, you are talking to one, but I realise that our beginning was most unusual and fortunate in the extreme. Being a true Dom, My Master recognised the unknown and certainly unspoken needs in me and was prepared to wait until the time was right to reveal his interests.

I do understand about commitment in relationships, but commitment to what exactly is there online with a person who may say all the things you want to hear, but may not be who they say they are. Apart from having a friend and someone to talk to about BDSM and all the exciting fantasies that come under that banner, what do you get out of it?

I'm sorry to be so blunt but to be honest I've wondered about this for a long time and this thread is a good place to ask.

 

[Kajira Callista]

The real time TPE 24/7 relationship I have with My collared slave of five years began online. It remained online and was very deep and fullfilling for both of U/us until W/we moved to realtime. The first year was a LDR mostly online with travelling back and forth between Sweden and Canada.
The online experience built a depth and a trust that worked well.

I have to agree. I feel that with the RIGHT person, online can develop a very mentally...or emotionally intimate bond between two people who are both being honest and completely open with one another. I have more to say, but i think i'll let the thread roll along, it seems to be going well.