Holocaust denial in Canada

[Anarawd]

FINALLY.... Gawd! Maybe his b/f in jail will be a REALLY large circumsized German who's allergic to lube!

...yes, that's it! Maybe said b/f will also be someone whose parents perished in a Nazi death camp!!

 

[GirlMidnite]

Their memory dominates because the Zionists realised that the politicisation of the Holocaust would do their cause a lot of good in establishing a jewish 'homeland'.

Just a few well known quotes that the Zionists hate and usually demonise showing they are not a nice group of people...

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

In 1941, Yitzhak Shamir committed:
"an unforgivable crime from the moral point of view: he preached an alliance with Hitler, with Nazi Germany, against Great Britain."
-- Bar Zohar "Le prophète armé: Ben Gourion." (Fayard. Paris 1966, p.99.)

"The saving of the Jews in Europe did not figure at the head of the list of priorities of the ruling class. It was the foundation of the State which was primordial in their eyes."
-- Tom Segev. "Le septième million" (the Seventh Million) Ed. Liana Levi, Paris, 1993, p.539"

ppman

I have read this all before. However, the Holocaust does strike the imagination of non-zionist Jews. The holocaust still happened, and way before auschwitz and the camps, the persecution of the Jews was still systematic and it would still have been inevitable. I believe that it was the will of the Nazis to place such a program in operation. In 1934/35 they were already operating euthanasia programs that were precursors to the death camps.

 

[p_p_man]

In 1934/35 they were already operating euthanasia programs that were precursors to the death camps.

I'll need a link on that. I understand that the Nazis aim was to deport jews from Germany. The death camps didn't come in until the early forties. I've posted this from memory as I haven't time to get the links...

ppman

 

[woody54]

Yes, however, the holocaust was more horrifying because it was intended mass slaughter executed in a way that was not done before, from every level of society. It was like the Ford production line- which amplified "the mundanity of evil."
The fact that people died by the millions, as opposed to the thousands, and the efficiency, is unlike anything committed (the Armenian genocide being the closest prototype.)

Well, you see this is the very aspect the whole Holocaust questiong hinges upon.

Millions obviously died but there are assertions that many were not automatically executed but predominantly succumbed to their bad conditions, overwork, starvation, lack of adequate facilities and consequent illness.
The net result is the same, they died but the question is one of cold blooded intent?

No-one has been willing to amplify on this and now ot is almost too late for the facts to come out . Even forensic investigations of bodies and the facilities is banned.

 

[Jimi]

...yes, that's it! Maybe said b/f will also be someone whose parents perished in a Nazi death camp!!

My thoughts, exactly!

 

[Jimi]

It is notable that only Christians succumbed to the famine, I concur with Unculbact on this one.

Are you SURE about that - you know - the Holocust Deniers are not just the Nazi-types, Woodmeister...

 

[woody54]

I have read this all before. However, the Holocaust does strike the imagination of non-zionist Jews. The holocaust still happened, and way before auschwitz and the camps, the persecution of the Jews was still systematic and it would still have been inevitable. I believe that it was the will of the Nazis to place such a program in operation. In 1934/35 they were already operating euthanasia programs that were precursors to the death camps.

It was a tenet of Nazi philosophy to transfer Jews out of their domain and this was the primary reason for rounding them up and enslaving them.

The Final Solution was not really underway until the 40's after political solutions with the Zionists were exhausted.

The euthanasia programmes you mention may well have been for the infirm, the retarded, and sexuality deviants who also were not required.

 

[GirlMidnite]

I'll need a link on that. I understand that the Nazis aim was to deport jews from Germany. The death camps didn't come in until the early forties. I've posted this from memory as I haven't time to get the links...

ppman

Sorry, informal euthanasia started to take place around 1935 informally, as Hitler had confided to his staff that he planned to implement such a plan and approved. Also, eugenics was a fashionable idea around the western world at the time (eg California etc), so some doctors went ahead with it. The program however began officially in 1939, but stopped two years later because of protests from parents. (Note: a few Jews who survived did so because they were married to gentiles who also protested the persecution of their loved ones.)

Here are some links:
http://www.aapsonline.org/jpands/hacienda/article21.html
http://www.kent.ac.uk/history/staff/material/schmidt/euthanasia.html
http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/euthan.html
http://academic.kellogg.edu/mandel/rankin_rev.htm

 

[GirlMidnite]

Well, you see this is the very aspect the whole Holocaust questiong hinges upon.

Millions obviously died but there are assertions that many were not automatically executed but predominantly succumbed to their bad conditions, overwork, starvation, lack of adequate facilities and consequent illness.
The net result is the same, they died but the question is one of cold blooded intent?

No-one has been willing to amplify on this and now ot is almost too late for the facts to come out . Even forensic investigations of bodies and the facilities is banned.

Sorry but as a part Jew who has chilled with more credible Jewish offspring, yes it is credible. I once talked to an old woman who remembers liberating Belsen and seeing all the bodies piled up.
Also, I have Jewish friends who have very blotchy family lines because they lost huge swathes of families in Auschwitz. This is how numbers are counted.
The only Jew I know to survive the ordeal became the 'plaything' of a Gestapo member, and eventually managed to escape.

 

[woody54]

Are you SURE about that - you know - the Holocust Deniers are not just the Nazi-types, Woodmeister...

How sure can one be?

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of over 50 million people and this doesnt figure as a worthwhile genocide to recall because they were mainly Goys.

In his "cabinet", did he not have 23 who were persons of Jewish linkage and wielded his power around the country often with their own twist.

Kaganovitch was an element of that influence which coincidentally allowed him to introduce some Talmudic influence in his management style.

No one has yet come up with a plausible reason for the Ukraine famine that I have read, but it was manmade, viciously coldblooded and run by a Jew. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[GirlMidnite]

Below is a Jewish perspective on the above debate, it is very sensible:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial1.html

 

[GirlMidnite]

How sure can one be?

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of over 50 million people and this doesnt figure as a worthwhile genocide to recall because they were mainly Goys.

In his "cabinet", did he not have 23 who were persons of Jewish linkage and wielded his power around the country often with their own twist.

Kaganovitch was an element of that influence which coincidentally allowed him to introduce some Talmudic influence in his management style.

No one has yet come up with a plausible reason for the Ukraine famine that I have read, but it was manmade, viciously coldblooded and run by a Jew. Draw your own conclusions.

Yes, cruelty is universal, and the early russian communist party had many Jews. (Though, it needs to be pointed out that Stalin did begin to persecute Jews as his career furthered.)
That isn't the point, the point is denial of the holocaust, that lessons cannot be drawn from the holocaust, or the trivialisation of what occured.
It horrifies westerners because the holocaust happened in one of the most developed and liberal societies in Europe (Germany.)
Other human evils horrify, but it is those that occur in societies, or amongst a culture of people that most resemble our own that horrify the most.

 

[woody54]

Sorry but as a part Jew who has chilled with more credible Jewish offspring, yes it is credible. I once talked to an old woman who remembers liberating Belsen and seeing all the bodies piled up.
Also, I have Jewish friends who have very blotchy family lines because they lost huge swathes of families in Auschwitz. This is how numbers are counted.
The only Jew I know to survive the ordeal became the 'plaything' of a Gestapo member, and eventually managed to escape.

Yes, the photos are undeniable evidence of death but there are no logbooks certifying cause of death , merely speculation.

But go and read about Zundel and his first trial. The prosecutors thought they would blow him into the weeds straight off but they could not come up with evidence to satisfy the court that extermination took place.
He in fact elicited information from their witnesses that damaged the States case. Most details surrounding the Holocaust are speculative and not steeped in fact as they should be.

In Kosovo and Iraq, great care has been taken to exhume and study genocide victims to determine the truth.

In Iraq, the much vaunted 300,000 deaths can only be justified by around 30,000 bodies discovered.

In Germany, the numbers are pretty well defined now but the cause of death is not.

 

[woody54]

Yes, cruelty is universal, and the early russian communist party had many Jews. (Though, it needs to be pointed out that Stalin did begin to persecute Jews as his career furthered.)
That isn't the point, the point is denial of the holocaust, that lessons cannot be drawn from the holocaust, or the trivialisation of what occured.
It horrifies westerners because the holocaust happened in one of the most developed and liberal societies in Europe (Germany.)
Other human evils horrify, but it is those that occur in societies, or amongst a culture of people that most resemble our own that horrify the most.

No-one trivialises or denies the deaths of 6 million people in what was a State atrocity. But there are questions to be answered that may alter the perspective applied to the myth as we understand it.

Perhaps my non Jewishness doesnt add a religious perspective to my take on the whole matter and hence I see no need to cling to a Holocaust myth but would rather see the facts come out as in any good detective novel.

Westerners are horrified that the USA uses torture, locks people away without trial, and uses banned WMD against civilians too so the evil of humanity is very close even today within western society.

 

[GirlMidnite]

No-one trivialises or denies the deaths of 6 million people in what was a State atrocity. But there are questions to be answered that may alter the perspective applied to the myth as we understand it.

Perhaps my non Jewishness doesnt add a religious perspective to my take on the whole matter and hence I see no need to cling to a Holocaust myth but would rather see the facts come out as in any good detective novel.

Westerners are horrified that the USA uses torture, locks people away without trial, and uses banned WMD against civilians too so the evil of humanity is very close even today within western society.

None of my Jewish family have been religious Jews, in fact, they were all closet Jews (my grandmother used to tell me how evil the Jews were in fact.) There is nothing remotely 'pro-Jewish' or Zionist about my family. I was interested in the Holocaust before I even learnt all but one of my paternal grandparents were Jewish, it was my gateway to developing an interest in human rights.

I don't cling to the Holocaust myth, with the history of my family, I have a million other 'myths' to cling to if I wanted to.

The thing is, why would they take accurate records of all those who were exterminated? Accurate numbers from genocides are difficult to deduce because the state is more concerned with killing them than 'clocking them off' as they would do a shift worker. The numbers from the genocide are deduced from survivors who went in with relatives and friends they never saw again, and from those 6 million Jewish citizens who went missing after the war but cannot be accounted for as far as immigration is concerned (many Jews were not permitted by other countries to cross their territories before the war.) I guess the effect must have been like estimating the deaths that occured from the recent Tsunami.

I am against the occupation of the middle east, I also believe the human rights and abuses need to be observed, I do not agree with Zionism, but I think, considering the pure scholarly work that has taken place in this area it is ignorant to ignore what occured. Also, I used to read holocaust denial peices, but often they are pretty shoddy and steeped in agenda.

I have done my detective work (albeit a long time ago) and I have found Holocaust denial wanting.

 

[miles]

Laws prohibiting free thought and free speech are infinitely more dangerous than some pea-brained fucktard.

 

[Jimi]

what's your point?

Laws prohibiting free thought and free speech are infinitely more dangerous than some pea-brained fucktard.

see above

 

[GirlMidnite]

Laws prohibiting free thought and free speech are infinitely more dangerous than some pea-brained fucktard.

I totally agree, also, prohibiting free speech in this way helps to martyr pea-brained fucktards. Open debate about history is a good way of allowing more intruiging truths to emerge from both sides of the debate. Closed debates just seem fishy.

 

[miles]

Thought police remind me of Nazi book burners.

 

[miles]

I totally agree, also, prohibiting free speech in this way helps to martyr pea-brained fucktards. Open debate about history is a good way of allowing more intruiging truths to emerge from both sides of the debate. Closed debates just seem fishy.

I agree. Wanna fuck?

 

[GirlMidnite]

I agree. Wanna fuck?

Fuck what? Freedom of speech?

 

[miles]

Fuck what? Freedom of speech?

Newbies are no fun.

 

[GirlMidnite]

Newbies are no fun.

No we are not. *buttons up my schoolmarmish white shirt*

It's old crony tin-pot Literoticans such as yourself who like to take a beguiling dear Newbie as is me, and turn her into a quivering mass of nakedness.

Not. Going. To. Happen (unless you have nude photos that you wish to show.)

 

[miles]

No we are not. *buttons up my schoolmarmish white shirt*

It's old crony tin-pot Literoticans such as yourself who like to take a beguiling dear Newbie as is me, and turn her into a quivering mass of nakedness.
)

Nah. I just wanna fuck you.

 

[GirlMidnite]

Nah. I just wanna fuck you.

Oh? And why?

Unless of course, it's just a fundamental case of give a dawg a boner.