Help with story rejection

[EmilyMiller]

Alright, is it possible for me to offer constructive criticism without it coming across as an attack or throwing shade? Because neither of those were my intent.

You picked the wrong week…

I try to be polite and friendly with everyone in these forums, even when I disagree with them. Yourself included.

Then don’t say you are explaining things that people get confused about or don’t understand. The best interpretation is that’s passive aggressive. It’s also patronizing. Simple experiment, how do you react to things like that, positively?

I often disagree with the way you seem to tease people when they are frustrated. How can I address this without "throwing shade?" Should I have brought the issue to you in private? Perhaps, but it's such a small issue, I hardly considered it so shameful that I couldn't say it openly.

Citations please, especially to the often bit. Because your impressions are wrong. And yeah private. The only reason for public is entertaining the peanut gallery.

Please tell me, how can I better express myself so that it isn't misinterpreted as an attack?

Stop replying I think at this stage.

If you can’t tell when you are annoying the fuck out of someone, then maybe again try thinking about the positions being reversed.

If you are finding me difficult, then either put me on ignore, or PM me and explain why. I’m sick of public lectures. I’m sick of ill-founded assumptions. I’m sick of being other people’s punch bag. So I’m punching back.

Emily

 

[Zootonius]

There is a theory that “popular” authors are treated differently to the hoi polloi. And I’ve somehow been lumped into this golden category (which is fucking hilarious given my viewership numbers). Illuminati like me don’t have it worry about story rejections. Our stuff just sails through with never a single red flag.

Emily

To be pedantic, it's 'hoi polloi,' not 'the hoi polloi.' Hoi means 'the.' So you'd be saying 'the the masses.'

 

[EmilyMiller]

To be pedantic, it's 'hoi polloi,' not 'the hoi polloi.' Hoi means 'the.' So you'd be saying 'the the masses.'

My Latin is better than my Greek.

And Dryden is good company to be in.

https://quotefancy.com/quote/116807...d-the-multitude-the-hoi-polloi-tis-no-matter#:

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

To be pedantic, it's 'hoi polloi,' not 'the hoi polloi.' Hoi means 'the.' So you'd be saying 'the the masses.'

Merriam Webster on the subject:

Since hoi polloi is a transliteration of the Greek for "the many," some critics have asserted that the phrase should not be preceded by the. They find "the hoi polloi" to be redundant, equivalent to "the the many"—an opinion that fails to recognize that hoi means nothing at all in English. Nonetheless, the opinion has influenced the omission of the in the usage of some writers.

Emily

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Thinking about this, there is one other possible reason that I seem to have above average success in connecting with Laurel.

It’s maybe that I don’t spend all my time complaining about a site that is free to use and allows me a platform I could never dream of building myself.

I am curious to hear what you meant with this. There is an obvious interpretation - that you believe that Laurel reads the forum and sees all the complaints people make towards Lit but I learned it's better to ask than to make such assumptions.

 

[Devinter]

I am curious to hear what you meant with this. There is an obvious interpretation - that you believe that Laurel reads the forum and sees all the complaints people make towards Lit but I learned it's better to ask than to make such assumptions.

I have good reason to believe that Laurel reads the forums a little bit more than the general public perhaps think. But there is a difference between belief and fact, of course, and my 'evidence' could be considered anecdotal.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

You picked the wrong week…

Then don’t say you are explaining things that people get confused about or don’t understand. The best interpretation is that’s passive aggressive. It’s also patronizing. Simple experiment, how do you react to things like that, positively?

Citations please, especially to the often bit. Because your impressions are wrong. And yeah private. The only reason for public is entertaining the peanut gallery.

Stop replying I think at this stage.

If you can’t tell when you are annoying the fuck out of someone, then maybe again try thinking about the positions being reversed.

If you are finding me difficult, then either put me on ignore, or PM me and explain why. I’m sick of public lectures. I’m sick of ill-founded assumptions. I’m sick of being other people’s punch bag. So I’m punching back.

Emily

Okay, you clearly have a lot of stuff going on that I'm not familiar with. I've been away for a while, so maybe that's what.

But whatever. If you don't want to hear any constructive criticism, then I'll just keep it to myself.

I've never tried to treat you like a "punching bag" but if you wanna punch back, I'm just not gonna engage with that.

Have a good one.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I am curious to hear what you meant with this. There is an obvious interpretation - that you believe that Laurel reads the forum and sees all the complaints people make towards Lit but I learned it's better to ask than to make such assumptions.

I meant more that some people - not you, others, just to be clear - may be as aggressive in their PMs as they are on the forums. I’ve seen Laurel called all sorts of things (I empathize).

There seems to be mass hysteria about AI. I have commiserated with specific people about AI rejectionsbon many many occasions. I’ve tried to help by reading rejected text and making suggestions, again multiple times (in public and via PMs). And still I get accused of having no sympathy and making fun of people.

But.. there is another side to the story. Laurel is not some evil person trying to upset people, she’s just like you and me. The AI threat is unprecedented. I think we could all calm the fuck down while she and Manu try to figure it out.

No one knows how to deal with AI, Laurel doesn’t have some magic wand. And thee have been enough people admit to using it in public to be of concern.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

A general point here. I kinda act on a treat people how they treat you basis. Laurel has been very kind and supportive and - yes - human in my experience of dealing with her. A busy lady for sure, but not remote, not out of touch, not uncaring.

So, she’s treated me well. That means when I see people attacking her (something I’m personally very familar with), I speak up. This is not to diminish what people are experiencing, it’s to say the personality barbed elements of how people express themselves are - in my opinion of course - unfair, undeserved, and likely counterproductive.

Laurel has a hard job - unlike anyone else - she has to at least skim read every fetid imagining I put “on paper.” That’s gotta get a gal down.

My central point is, before you attack, remember it’s a person you are attacking. One just like you, with feelings, who can get hurt.

Politeness costs nothing. Putting yourself in the other person’s shoes costs nothing.

Emily

 

[MediocreAuthor]

@EmilyMiller

So out of my own curiosity, I went and looked back on some of the threads I was referring to, when I had stated that you had acted glib in light of someone else's frustrations.

While I was not able to find all of them, I did find two instances where I could see that you probably were being more friendly than I first assumed, and I was probably reading your posts with a bad-faith interpretation based on times when you had been snarky in the past.

So if I was reading something into your comments that was unintended, I apologize.

 

[EmilyMiller]

@EmilyMiller

So out of my own curiosity, I went and looked back on some of the threads I was referring to, when I had stated that you had acted glib in light of someone else's frustrations.

While I was not able to find all of them, I did find two instances where I could see that you probably were being more friendly than I first assumed, and I was probably reading your posts with a bad-faith interpretation based on times when you had been snarky in the past.

So if I was reading something into your comments that was unintended, I apologize.

If it wasn’t for the sorry, not sorry of “snarky in the past,” I’d accept the apology. For some reason, you couldn’t resist saying that. Only you will know why those words were so important to add.

Either apologize or don’t. Qualified half apologies accompanied by attempted self-justification don’t really cut it. I’d rather have no apology at all.

I don’t need your approval or anyone else’s.

I do a lot of shit round here, quite a lot of it out of the public eye, and if I’m snarky, there are plenty of other people around whose neck you could also hang that, but which I don’t notice you doing. Then different rules always seem to apply to me.

I’m done with being a soft target for anyone. I’m done with being magnanimous.

If you want to make a proper, unqualified apology some time in the future, then fine. Otherwise, just stay out of my way and I’ll do the same.

Emily

 

[MediocreAuthor]

If it wasn’t for the sorry, not sorry of “snarky in the past,” I’d accept the apology. For some reason, you couldn’t resist saying that. Only you will know why those words were so important to add.

Either apologize or don’t. Qualified half apologies accompanied by attempted self-justification don’t really cut it. I’d rather have no apology at all.

I don’t need your approval or anyone else’s.

I do a lot of shit round here, quite a lot of it out of the public eye, and if I’m snarky, there are plenty of other people around whose neck you could also hang that, but which I don’t notice you doing. Then different rules always seem to apply to me.

I’m done with being a soft target for anyone. I’m done with being magnanimous.

If you want to make a proper, unqualified apology some time in the future, then fine. Otherwise, just stay out of my way and I’ll do the same.

Emily

Look I offered the exact apology I offered. Accept it or don't, I don't care.

I've never been mean to you before, and I'm not being mean now... but I will be honest. You have been snarky directly to me in the past, and you've apologized to me for it, ( privately, with your own excuses and qualifiers tacked on).

I didn't throw your excuses in your face. I believe my response was "Don't sweat it"

In my previous post, I admitted that I believed I made a mistake, and I apologized for it. I also explained why I made that mistake. If that bothers you, then you'll just have to deal with it.

I've apologized for making assumptions. I won't apologize for explaining myself.

 

[Britva415]

it’s customary to create a thread about such things

I lawl'd

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I meant more that some people - not you, others, just to be clear - may be as aggressive in their PMs as they are on the forums. I’ve seen Laurel called all sorts of things (I empathize).

I don't doubt there are people who write angry PMs to her, frustrated by the rejection of their stories and of course, she shouldn't need to take such PMs. But I can only speak for myself, and as I said, I have always been polite in the many PMs I sent to her over the course of 2-3 months or so. She replied a total of two times, I believe, with a generic message pointing me to how to report my problem in a different way. I followed her instructions to the letter every time to no apparent result.
I am convinced now that she sent me those replies just to get me to stop sending her PMs as I never had to report such problems in any other way than through PMs previously.
Why is that so, I can only guess, of course, but maybe my impression that it's because of my forum criticism towards Lit is not so far-fetched.

 

[StillStunned]

Why is that so, I can only guess, of course, but maybe my impression that it's because of my forum criticism towards Lit is not so far-fetched.

Seems fair enough. If I was running Lit, I'd probably be more friendly and accommodating to people who were appreciative of what is essentially a free gift than to people who complain about it.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Seems fair enough. If I was running Lit, I'd probably be more friendly and accommodating to people who were appreciative of what is essentially a free gift than to people who complain about it.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. But I can't help but wonder: Isn't Lit living off the free gifts the authors make?

Strictly speaking, I'd view it as a mutual thing. But, if I was running Lit, and my entire site was dependent on people posting their work to my site instead of posting it to one of the dozens of alternatives, I'd appreciate at least all the suggestions that could make even more authors choose my site.

 

[StillStunned]

Don't get me wrong, I agree. But I can't help but wonder: Isn't Lit living off the free gifts the authors make?

Strictly speaking, I'd view it as a mutual thing. But, if I was running Lit, and my entire site was dependent on people posting their work to my site instead of posting it to one of the dozens of alternatives, I'd appreciate at least all the suggestions that could make even more authors choose my site.

Sure, its a symbiosis: the site needs writers, writers need the site. But I gather that Lit is doing pretty well despite any room for improvement. Presumably over the past 25 years Laurel has seen and heard all the complaints and knows what works and what doesn't. Or at least what her priorities are in terms of what needs fixing and what still works.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I don't doubt there are people who write angry PMs to her, frustrated by the rejection of their stories and of course, she shouldn't need to take such PMs. But I can only speak for myself, and as I said, I have always been polite in the many PMs I sent to her over the course of 2-3 months or so. She replied a total of two times, I believe, with a generic message pointing me to how to report my problem in a different way. I followed her instructions to the letter every time to no apparent result.
I am convinced now that she sent me those replies just to get me to stop sending her PMs as I never had to report such problems in any other way than through PMs previously.
Why is that so, I can only guess, of course, but maybe my impression that it's because of my forum criticism towards Lit is not so far-fetched.

I think we have to accept that, if there is a distribution of experiences of interacting with the site, I’m to the right of the midpoint and you are to the left.

Any attempt at explaining this would be highly speculative.

I’m sorry that your experience has not been good.

Emily

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Seems fair enough. If I was running Lit, I'd probably be more friendly and accommodating to people who were appreciative of what is essentially a free gift than to people who complain about it.

Free gift is a bit one-sided view. Sure, we get space to post our stories and to be read. But readers get to read stories for free and Lit gets to monetize their views. It's a win for all, more or less, except that we put most work into it for the least gratification in comparison to the other sides.

Also, Laurel has a dual role here. She is the owner and the only admin we get to PM. So if I rant or criticize the way something is being done on Lit, I am ranting to the owner of the website. More than that, I haven't seen anyone here criticize Lit in a malicious way; we all criticize because we like this place and we want it to be even better. That is why I feel that her striking back from her role as a website administrator makes her come off as a petty person.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I haven't seen anyone here criticize Lit in a malicious way;

I have definitely seen that in the past. Not that it's common, and I've not seen it from the normal AH denizens, but I've seen it a handful of times.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I have definitely seen that in the past. Not that it's common, and I've not seen it from the normal AH denizens, but I've seen it a handful of times.

Fair enough, although I didn't really count those accounts created two days before the post. The only reason why someone would want to harm Lit is the butthurt over being banned, or because they had a personal interest in promoting other story websites.
I did try two other story websites and had mixed impressions. AO3 sucks unless you write fanfic. There is no upside to posting there in any other case, in my opinion. SOL is okay in general and it's far more appreciative of authors, but the reader pool is smaller, and the interface and the visibility of feedback is worse than here.
I believe that Lit could learn from those websites and easily become even bigger than it is, but I see no desire in Lit owners to see or hear anything except their own voices. Their choice, of course, but also my right to rant and criticize

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm coming in here as someone who has made such a generic statement, but on the grounds that a lot of AI rejected users have joined the site in the last few months which is one hell of a coincidence if that's what it is, but it does beg the question as to whether newer users are being more heavily scrutinised compared to older users particularly when it comes to AI.

Regarding the messaging Laurel situation, I have been reaching out to Laurel for over a month because I've fighting to have a part of my story published after 5 AI rejections with no response. I've been polite, voiced that I've done everything asked of me, and have yet to receive a response. That's my issue. You got a reply for something minor, I'm here fighting for 38 days to have this part published and I have yet to receive a response that expands beyond being direct to an FAQ I have already read backwards and forwards.

I'm glad your work is being published and that you got a response to fix the issue, but I'm allowed to be frustrated that I'm 38 days into this rejection cycle and it feels like I'm slamming my face into a brick wall (which is about as thrilling as it sounds).

Hi,

Send me a PM. I’ll see if I can help at all. No guarantee.

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

it does beg the question as to whether newer users are being more heavily scrutinised compared to older users particularly when it comes to AI.

New or old *might* be a factor, but it's surely not the only one. I've been here for significantly less than a year, and so far none of my stories have had any difficulty.

 

[EmilyMiller]

New or old *might* be a factor, but it's surely not the only one. I've been here for significantly less than a year, and so far none of my stories have had any difficulty.

It’s not been much longer for me. Then my writing style is so idiosyncratic that the last AI that tried to ape it committed seppuku.

I think it’s true that if you have been a good girl for quite a few stories you get less scrutiny. That makes perfect sense.

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

I think it’s true that if you have been a good girl for quite a few stories you get less scrutiny. That makes perfect sense.

Emily

I try to be a good girl. I really do. But I'm a middle-aged bloke with a beard and there's no way to pretend I'm not.