help with jealousy?

[superlittlegirl]

Read The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt. It's a great resource for learning how to successfully communicate and negotiate for your needs in a non-monogamous relationship.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Read The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Catrherine A. Liszt. It's a great resource for learning how to successfully communicate and negotiate for your needs in a non-monogamous relationship.

Spreading the good word.....


I actually LIKE feeling jealous, but I am sick in the noggin. I mean, I don't "like" it, but it hurts so good.

 

[superlittlegirl]

I agree with you. I really like to lean into the discomfort of hurts-so-good jealousy. It takes a lot of self-control (and self-distraction) to get past the prickly parts, but I do like it when I care enough to actually feel it.

Spreading the good word.....


I actually LIKE feeling jealous, but I am sick in the noggin. I mean, I don't "like" it, but it hurts so good.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I agree with you. I really like to lean into the discomfort of hurts-so-good jealousy. It takes a lot of self-control (and self-distraction) to get past the prickly parts, but I do like it when I care enough to actually feel it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I suspect a lot of us polyamorists are what might be called "emotional masochists".

 

[Etoile]

Fuck no, not for me. If I could be monogamous again, I would do so. Yes, more love is great and all that, but I don't think it really works well for me because I have such a hard time handling my jealousy. Which is to say: I can't handle it well at all.

I think it's possible to grow accustomed to jealousy, but extremely difficult to grow out of it. This is multiplied exponentially if you have self-esteem issues (as I do). Even if you are able to rationalize away your jealousy some of the time, there are still emotional moments when it will rear its ugly head.

yeah, i'm kind of having a bad/pessimistic night.

 

[robynwildchild]

Originally posted by HisSlave
LadyNatasha,
Thanks for the thoughts. I have to say, you aren't telling me anything I haven't already told myself. I'm smart enough to see the writing on the wall; I guess I just don't want to let it go because of the good things about our relationship. Maybe I'm ultimately too strong-willed to be a sub-friend-lover to him if there's someone else in the mix.

Still, if anyone has any advice on how to handle it, let me know. I may still want to work on this.

just a thought, but your not strong willed if you can't let go.

 

[TigerClaw]

just a thought, but your not strong willed if you can't let go.

Huh?

I dont understand your comment....

I think she has to think if a Poly is for her. I Know a Poly is not for me. I can see her being to strong willed for a Poly. That does not mean she "is strong willed".

 

[lindiana]

jealousy

i have had to deal with this on so many levels.

on the whole, i was never jealous of my Master's others. the way i look at is this:

what he has with them has no meaning on what he has with me...he is going to love me the same if i am his only or if i am his 25th lover...no one can change that EXCEPT him...and if he chooses to, there is really nothing i can do to stop him.

on the other hand, he has had slaves leave him because of their jealousy of me. one actually told him he had to choose either her or me. he let her go but he made sure i was aware it was because she gave him an ultimatum, not because he was choosing me.

i actually have more of a problem with my Master being jealous. i am very outgoing and have almost all male friends. he gets so upset, he is always accusing me of giving them sexual favors. it is ridiculous, i would not. i love my Master.

so anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with a jealous Master?

 

[TigerClaw]

I fought so hard to get the bad Jealousy and Possessiveness

out of my system. As far as friends go I pretty much did that in the recent past. I felt ready to go into a relationship and started looking. Friends first. You need a good friendship in order to make it last.

I was shocked at the crap I still had in my system when I started going past friendship. This is not me. I am not jealous with out a reason. Luckily I have found a woman who respects my determination to fight this. A woman who is helping me reteach myself to clense it from my system. A woman determined to show me I can trust again.

I fought so damn hard to get it out of my system before trying to get into another relationship. I thought I had. The dynamics of a relationship are different from the dynamics of being friends.

Yet, my subbie is guiding me back to trust. My subbie sees through the poison that is not from her and sees me. She is devoted to "Us".

As difficult as it is to work through this it would be 10 times more difficult without her help. When Jealousy is unwarranted, it is poison in a relationship. I wish I could go into details but I should not. She has been washing the poison away in the things she does and says.

 

[catalina_francisco]

out of my system. As far as friends go I pretty much did that in the recent past. I felt ready to go into a relationship and started looking. Friends first. You need a good friendship in order to make it last.

I was shocked at the crap I still had in my system when I started going past friendship. This is not me. I am not jealous with out a reason. Luckily I have found a woman who respects my determination to fight this. A woman who is helping me reteach myself to clense it from my system. A woman determined to show me I can trust again.

I fought so damn hard to get it out of my system before trying to get into another relationship. I thought I had. The dynamics of a relationship are different from the dynamics of being friends.

Yet, my subbie is guiding me back to trust. My subbie sees through the poison that is not from her and sees me. She is devoted to "Us".

As difficult as it is to work through this it would be 10 times more difficult without her help. When Jealousy is unwarranted, it is poison in a relationship. I wish I could go into details but I should not. She has been washing the poison away in the things she does and says.

Just been reading some interesting articles of which this is part of a piece related to jealousy:

"Problem: Jealousy

... There are very few totally non-jealous people around. If you are not jealous you are at advantage to help the others by being patient and adaptable to help the other get through their jealous issues or insecurities, but this does not mean you should not be so patient or adaptable that your needs are not being met. I personally can back off and have a lesser degree of a relationship for the other person, but I cannot do this long term.

Jealousy cannot just go away. It is something that has to be verbalized and out in the open. It is not something that goes away just because you love someone. ......You have to deal with the issues causing the insecurities.

I am not sure where I got this but I thought it was interesting. If you know the source please let me know so I can give credit to them.

"Jealousy occurs only when one's needs are not being met".

The above quote, I believe, is absolutely true. However, jealousy can occur by ones own issues as well - things that are unknown sometimes are hard to accept, understand and be open too. It also can be a symptom of a lack of self-confidence and self-worth. All of which take time to learn or heal. Unfulfilled needs can be one cause, but really, jealousy is just is a symptom to a larger issue.

I do think that jealously and insecurities can be worked through with communication. If all parties are open and honest that is the way to deal with fears and issues. " © danaewhispering 2001

Good to hear you are in a positive and honest relationship which is obviously agreeing with you.

Catalina

 

[TigerClaw]

Causes




Jealousy cannot just go away. It is something that has to be verbalized and out in the open. It is not something that goes away just because you love someone. ......You have to deal with the issues causing the insecurities.
This is so true. I was shocked that my feelings for her have grown into Love and yet I still feel jealous at times. The jealousy is not from my lack of love or our love at all in any fashion. One thing I disagree with here is I can not deal with the problems that caused the jealousy in the first place. The door slammed her on the ass on the way out.


"Jealousy occurs only when one's needs are not being met".
It is more then just this I think. It is also witnessing or having things going on where the needs are being supplied or perceived to be supplied to someone else or others. That is when the jealousy really kicks in. The betrayal of something that should be held between the two of you. (This is not the case in this relationship)


The above quote, I believe, is absolutely true. However, jealousy can occur by ones own issues as well - things that are unknown sometimes are hard to accept, understand and be open too. It also can be a symptom of a lack of self-confidence and self-worth. All of which take time to learn or heal. Unfulfilled needs can be one cause, but really, jealousy is just is a symptom to a larger issue.

I do think that jealously and insecurities can be worked through with communication. If all parties are open and honest that is the way to deal with fears and issues. " © danaewhispering 2001
I am sure of myself and what I offer and yet insecurity can apply. This is another really weird thing about this. It is not solely out of insecurity. I do fear instances where I perceive her attention is diverted. (in really stupid stuff too) I have been open and honest with her when I feel it. Communication is the key. Strength to fight this is also needed. Strength to trust when you dont want to. She has been very patient and has been building up my trust. The really sad thing about it is she didnt break that trust, yet she is working hard for it. The really great thing is she is showing me her devotion and teaching me to trust.

The other part of this is conditioning. I have been conditioned to think it is a lie. It is something more then what it is. Because in the past it did turn out to be something more. It did turn out to be a lie. But that/this is not Her.

Good to hear you are in a positive and honest relationship which is obviously agreeing with you. Thank You.

Catalina

God Bless her insight and understanding of this.

 

[TigerClaw]

Something happened today that struck the jealousy cord.

My heart went into my mouth and the pressure built in my chest. I stopped it. I took a look at what caused it and came up with a reply. I reminded myself she had not given me any rational reason to be jealous here. I reviewed the circumstance again and made sure the reply was true to who I really was with out jealousy. I gave her my answer. It took a lot of work and strength to answer the way I felt was me.

Being I have not kept any of these feelings from her I sent her an email stating what my initial feelings were and how I fought it. In the meantime she was replying to my first reply. She saw my reply and knew what my feelings could have been.

This whole scenario strengthened our feelings for each other and it healed me a little more.

I dont know if I ever will be my ole self again. This poison spits up in the most unexpected places. I thank God I was not in a relationship that lasted like that for 5 or 10 years like many people do. I can not imagine trying to get over something like that when seeing how difficult this is. I will not give in and stop fighting this. This just is not me.
***********************************************
Later this evening this happened to me. Jealousy has no place in my heart with a woman like this. I can not let any false jealousy ruin what I have here.

Valentine's Day

 

[incubus'_sub]

Tiger Dear, this is meant in a kindly fashion towards you. I wish you great success with your new relationship & I have a little advice for you. I don't think it's going to be your irrational jealousy which will damage this new relationship but rather a totally understandable jealously which may begin to be experienced by your new lady at having to endlessly share you with your old unfaithful lover. People can only be patient, understanding & accepting of past wounds for so long. It is not her responsibility to heal you but rather you must heal yourself & although it seems that you believe you are doing that, that's not the impression I am getting. I don't recall any of your posts which do not refer to that past relationship & even one which had a count of the number of days passed since it ended & it was over a year.

I feel that the time has come to suggest to you quite seriously to get over it. Don't make excuses to your new love & stop burdening her with your pain. You are an adult. Stop thinking about it, talking about it, going over it in your head, writing about it. All the thinking will not change what happened in the past but it will certainly change your chances with this new lady. If you want to start to live & love again, you're going to have to actually do it.

 

[TigerClaw]

I appreciate your advice.

I am not in general a jealous person. I had cause to develop that. I now have to fight to get past it.

I dont wish this on any one. It is not a nice place to have come from and still struggling to get out. I would never suggest anyone to fight that by themselves.

PS.
If my knowledge can help someone, I will help. One of the best ways to teach is by example. If telling my story helps someone through their difficult time I am willing to help.

 

[Etoile]

It is more then just this I think. It is also witnessing or having things going on where the needs are being supplied or perceived to be supplied to someone else or others. That is when the jealousy really kicks in. The betrayal of something that should be held between the two of you. (This is not the case in this relationship).

It sure as hell is in mine. http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/bonk.gif
Nice to have it spelled out so clearly though - I may hang onto that.

 

[TigerClaw]

It sure as hell is in mine. http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/bonk.gif
Nice to have it spelled out so clearly though - I may hang onto that.

I am sorry Hon. I have been there and I dont ever want to go back there. I am very lucky with the lady I have found. I have been friends with her which gave us a good foundation for something more.

 

[spacekowboy]

i'd just like to put my 2 cents in on this one. as a person who has dealt with jealousy , and someone who has been cheated on . like i'm sure i'm not the only one . i decided when i found out she was cheating , that it would never work because i couldn't trust her any longer . and if you can't trust the person you've partnered your life with , then what's the point to the partnership? i know it's not a master/slave situation (never understood that whole thing , but that's for a different topic altogether) But i think it's still relevent . i have problems with self esteem as well , growing up my whole life an overweight kid , that turned into an overweight adult . but there are some things that take precedence over feeling , and sex on the regular . and for me that is loyalty . if someone you've given your heart betrays you then what's the point in keeping the relationship? everytime you look at that person , you're never going to forget it , it's always in the back of your mind . and that is no way to live . i'm sorry for my little rant here , but it's an issue that i care about.

 

[TigerClaw]

In general I would have to agree.

I would like to think and hope that there is a way for her to show you she is truly sorry. It is a two way street. She has to be willing to show you she is sorry and earn your trust again.

Most People dont want to work that hard.

You also will have to fight your feelings of betrayal and not make them pay over and over again. As far as I am concerned this can only happen if they are truly intent on fixing what they broke. If they have any doubt or reservations it will show through and you will see it and feel it.

At that point You might as well just end it. It does way too much damage to you in trusting someone else and with your jealousy.

I worked hard to get rid of this shit before getting into another relationship. Now that I am in another relationship I am finding trusting a friend is so much easier then trusting a gf. Luckily I have a woman who shows me where I am going wrong and guides me back to trusting. It is a lot of hard work but I have to get this crap out of my life.

Dont let it get that bad where you have the same issues in later relationships. Believe me it is easy to learn to distrust once betrayed if they dont want to fix it. It is 10x harder to trust after that and not ruin a new relationship.

You didnt rant. You stated the obvious and seem to be lucky enough to know when to cut your losses rather then stay to try to fix it and instead hurt yourself.

 

[loveblood1]

Like the others i just wanted to add my 2 cents . i have been cheated on and made to feel worthless . all the begging and pleading he did to get me back ment nothing as he had never stopped seeing the girl he cheated on me with. your self-esteam and dignity are worth more then a half relationship. iam by nature a very jelous person but i ignored my feelings and went back into a relationship that was bad for me. i would never agree to share my master with anyone and dispite the awful pain of loseing him , i would leave him if he suggested a poly relationship. everyone has hard limits and thats mine. i hope you do wots best for you

 

[spacekowboy]

thanks tigerclaw

thanks for the kind words. and not pointing out my gramatical errors ..lol i didn't realize how bad they were till i read my post today . I think it's important to point out that I've had a lot of time to reflect and that's how helped me in seeing the proverbial light . It was definitley not easy at the begining . I struggled and wept and wrestled my emotions for a long time . I remember vivdly sitting and dialing every digit of her number except the last and stopping myself . I just knew that I wouldn't be able to trust her anymore , and it would eat me alive . The real pisser of it was that she was fooling around with a friend of mine .Or who i thought was a friend . So it was the ending of 2 relationships simultaneously . I know now that she was sabotaging our relationship because it was getting too "real" , but i'm getting a shade old to wait around for someone to finish playing the field . The one regret i do have is that i never really got any closure . I told her i didn't want to talk to her for awhile , and she never called back . You live and ya learn i guess .

WOW , I'd better get out of here before i have to start paying you all for being my therapist..lol thanks again for letting me express my catharsis.

 

[TigerClaw]

Like the others i just wanted to add my 2 cents . i have been cheated on and made to feel worthless . all the begging and pleading he did to get me back ment nothing as he had never stopped seeing the girl he cheated on me with. your self-esteam and dignity are worth more then a half relationship. iam by nature a very jelous person but i ignored my feelings and went back into a relationship that was bad for me. i would never agree to share my master with anyone and dispite the awful pain of loseing him , i would leave him if he suggested a poly relationship. everyone has hard limits and thats mine. i hope you do wots best for you

There are a number of people on this site that dont think the feeling of jealousy has a place in a relationship. It does if it is founded. You may have to be very very careful with this feeling now for the next relationship. The best way to fight this is to be friends with your next partner for a good period of time before getting into a relationship.

Luckily I was friends with my woman for a long period of time. She saw a good part of me as I did her. <to answer you Incubus' sub> I was having difficulty with unrealistic jealousy in this new relationship. I knew it. (luckily) She knew it (God Bless her) It was very difficult to fight on its own merit. One night we were talking and I realized I have known her for a good period of time. I have seen how she was and reacted in other relationships. Her make up does not have cheating in it. I was able to see my fears were unfounded and I have been able to bury this fear in the past.

I agree that not sharing is a hard limit for me also. I have always said that. Good luck in finding someone new.

 

[TigerClaw]

To this day I think it can be fixed if there is a true desire to fix it. The problem is we want to believe our partner will stop and choose us over the other(s). Once that is done you leave yourself open to be hurt far worse then the initial betrayal. You have to know how to loook at it objectively and see when they are truly working to fix the relationship. I would bet that the statistics would show a person who has cheated in a relationship will do it again.

The lack of closure is a difficult thing to get past. It took me forever. Though, it makes what you were taught stick. I have no problem being alone now. I want a woman in my life but if it does not happen it is ok. There are a lot of other benefits too. The lack of closure though should not be a surprise. Your partner did not respect your relationship in more ways then just cheating. It is just a matter of fact that it tends to bleed into other areas as well.

What you have to do now is look over the relationship. See what you may have done that pushed, showed or made her decide to do this. It may have been something very bad. It may not. The price of cheating may have been too great for your mistake. In her mind, it was not or she felt she was driven to it. It does not matter now. What matters is that you find what may have caused it and be aware of it so you dont let it affect your next relationship.

As for the friend. You probably dont know what she told him to justify her being with him. He may be a victim and or a future victim just as you are. Dont worry about it. Worry about fixing you.

 

[sunfox]

I am not in general a jealous person. I had cause to develop that. I now have to fight to get past it.

I wanted to address this, because it is an issue I see offered quite often as an excuse for jealousy in a new relationship.

The way I feel is that even if your previous SO cheated on you, which yes.. gives you cause to be jealous and mistrustful of -them-.. that does not translate into being jealous over a new SO.

Did the new SO cheat on you? No. Therefore it is rather insulting for you (this is a general 'you', not a 'you' TigerClaw, just to clarify) to take out your issues with the previous relationship on the new one.

I cannot begin to say how many times I've dealt with someone's emotional baggage from another relationship, or watched my friends do that, and make excuses about 'oh, his last girlfriend cheated, so he's a little insecure'.. and all I can say is to that.

He's not insecure. He's possessive, jealous, and has baggage. Tell him to take you on your own terms, and stop comparing you/treating you like the other girlfriend, or tell him to take a hike.

Hardline view? Maybe. But jealousy validated is jealousy encouraged.

 

[TigerClaw]

Yes it was my problem. No, the new one didnt cause any real issues.

I LOVE HER MORE for her compassion and teaching me.

I admire Incubus' sub for slapping me up side the head and making me open my eyes. She posted twice with some very good points for me to look at.

As much as I would like to agree that this feeling should have been left in the past when you see certain signs it does trigger responses. Just like other emotional trauma's do.

I to have had to deal with her luggage and I am happy to help her. The problem is when our luggage gets put on the same baggage pick up belt. There is no one there to pick it up. We are both on the side lines waiting for the other to help.

I went through a very short period of time of this. What do people who are married for a number of years come away with after a bad marriage?

Somewhere I posted I am very secure and yet I am dealing with this. In general I am. I had a very big insecurity to allow me to feel those feelings with this new woman. When I saw it, actually it was pointed out to me, I was able to address it and fix it. Only time will tell If I fixed it permanently.

I dont take your post personally. I hope my being honest and open will help others to over come this nasty problem. In the first relationship it was a flag telling me something was up. After that it was poison to a new relationship.

 

[loveblood1]

My master knows all about my previous relationship. it was hard to share that feeling of betrayal with someone new, i felt like you do tigerclaw that if i tried to hide it it would become a poison to us. it was difficult at first , he did his best to make it easy for me but i was prone to bouts of paranioia . i realised the thing i feared the most ( him leaving ) was going to happen if i didt sort myself out. people's reactions to things are v different , wot one person can take, would destroy another . wot is right for you is right for you , end of . hopefully in the end , love is stronger .