Guns In The Closet (Political)

[cantdog]

Really, dude. To be apostate you have to have the faith and then fall away from it. If any muslim began to state that he or she believed those things, then that person would be an apostate muslim.

Had it, lost it. That's the word's meaning. That's why the actual beliefs listed would be different for an apostate muslim than for an apostate Jew or someone else of some other faith. Because you have to fall away from your faith. The list you give here is NOT a list of beliefs that, WHOEVER holds them, the muslims would call apostate. It is a list of things that, if a MUSLIM believed them, would show that he or she had forsaken Islam.

Honest to God, dude. I'm not trying to bullshit you, here. It's a word. It has a meaning. That's the meaning. Had it, lost it.

The reason muslims in particular need to have a definite list is because most interpretations of shari'a law punish apostasy with death. That makes it a capital crime, and it behooves the law to be specific about it.

But if you're born and brought up Shinto, you just can't be an apostate muslim, because you were never a muslim to begin with. It's no reflection on you that you've made this error, I'm not after you. I just have the word in my working vocabulary, that's all.

 

[MzDeviancy]

From Wikipedia: What constitutes apostasy in Islam

Regarding monotheism and polytheism
1) A public declaration or conduct that denies Islam, its beliefs, symbols or its principal actors such as statements as "I believe in gods other than Allah", or "God has a material form".
2) Worshipping an idol.
3) Denying the existence of God (atheism).
4) Saying the world has always existed from eternity, in such a way that it denies the existence of God as a creator.
5) Saying that the world is everlasting and without end, in such a way that it could be interpreted as a denial of resurrection.
6) Believing in reincarnation into this world, in such a way that it could be interpreted as a denial of resurrection.

From 1), a Christian or Jew is an apostate for Muslims. However, said Christian or Jew is not an apostate in his/her own religion.
From 2), most Catholics are apostates for Muslims due to the crucifix they wear. Catholics do not regard their use of the crucifix in their worship as apostacy.
From 3) or 4) an aethiest is an apostate. To at least a Christian, aethiest is NOT an apostate.
6) I think that the Hindu belief in reincarnation into this world could be interpreted as a denial of resurrection.

MzDeviancy:
Correct me if I am wrong. If I say Allah is not a god, I am an apostate to a Muslim, but not to at least most other religions. If I worship a golden aardvark, I am an apsotate to a Muslim, but not to a Christian. If I am an aethiest, I am an apostate to a Muslim, but not to a Christian or a Jew. What I was trying to point out is that the [American/English] dictionary definition of apostate [and closely related words] does not really apply to Muslims.

If I accept Thugge [the one true aspect of the Goddess Kali] as my Goddess, I am an apostate to a Muslim for my religious belief and a secular criminal to a Christian. [I am not sure if a Muslim also believes a Thug to be a secular criminal. In any case, under the Sharia, the difference between an apostate and a secular criminal would appear to be insignificant.]

Are you a fucking idiot or something? I wasn't arguing about the definition of apostate with you. I was expressing outrage at your request for some method of deterring your Muslim associates from killing you for 'disrespect to Islam'. While the hyperbole is noted, your statement pretty obviously demonstrates that you have no idea what constitutes as disrespect to Islam and believe that Muslims are simply a fanatical group who are liable to fly off into rages at the simple misuse of a term by a non-Muslim. You're exactly the kind of enlightened individual that believes Osama Bin Laden orchestrated the attacks on America because premarital sex and bikinis are okay over here.

I was also subtly insinuating that you don't really know any Muslims because redneck dickholes like you assume that anyone who prays five times a day is obviously a terrorist to be watched skeptically whenever you come into contact with them.

 

[R. Richard]

Really, dude. To be apostate you have to have the faith and then fall away from it. If any muslim began to state that he or she believed those things, then that person would be an apostate muslim.

Had it, lost it. That's the word's meaning. That's why the actual beliefs listed would be different for an apostate muslim than for an apostate Jew or someone else of some other faith. Because you have to fall away from your faith. The list you give here is NOT a list of beliefs that, WHOEVER holds them, the muslims would call apostate. It is a list of things that, if a MUSLIM believed them, would show that he or she had forsaken Islam.

Honest to God, dude. I'm not trying to bullshit you, here. It's a word. It has a meaning. That's the meaning. Had it, lost it.

[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected.