Government shutdown over illegals?

[WoundedKnee]

Yes, he's been given his marching orders and as I am watching clips on the good morning news, the press is virtue-signalling him into submission to; this issue gets between him and the microphone.

On a side note, it seems the collusion investigation is about to blow up, Daffy Duck style, in the faces of the deep state and the Democrat party. This has been interesting to watch, but I have avoided commenting on it because I knew what slings and arrows I would have to withstand. At a certain point, however, there will be a discussion of this when the MSM cannot keep it under the rug.

 

[bellisarius]

Yes, he's been given his marching orders and as I am watching clips on the good morning news, the press is virtue-signalling him into submission to; this issue gets between him and the microphone.

On a side note, it seems the collusion investigation is about to blow up, Daffy Duck style, in the faces of the deep state and the Democrat party. This has been interesting to watch, but I have avoided commenting on it because I knew what slings and arrows I would have to withstand. At a certain point, however, there will be a discussion of this when the MSM cannot keep it under the rug.

If he's going to change his stand every time he sticks his finger in the air to test the wind things don't bode well. Is he willing to shut it down again? Can he keep his senators in line? I don't see Trump caving on the basics, basics that have remained unchanged since this whole affair started.

On the collusion front...........so it would seem. Obviously it's not unfolding in the manner the 'goat entrail' readers on the left hallucinated it would.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I still believe that he wants a shutdown and that he is an impediment to getting anything done because that would translate as a Trump win and Chuck is sick and tired to death of so much "winning." He will happily prevent a budget deal and immigration reform, even DACA and sink the markets as long as he believes that it will also sink Trump and the Republicans with the added benefit of shoring up his support and adulation from the hard Progressive Left of his party. I think that his long-term strategy is to get McConnell to put a "clean" DACA bill written by the Democrats with no input from Republicans and no concessions to the House or to Trump in order for it to go down in defeat (and he doesn't care where it gets defeated, Senate, House, White House, just as long as it cannot possibly pass) so that the party can head into the elections with battle cries of racism, xenophobia and hatred of innocent children who have done nothing wrong.

 

[Amoebah]

Send dreamers back
For the same number
Of years they were here

If they stay clean
They get dual citizenship
On the date the
Scale is balanced

 

[WoundedKnee]

Maybe they won't want to come back once they realize what a shithole they were lucky to get out of.

 

[bellisarius]

I still believe that he wants a shutdown and that he is an impediment to getting anything done because that would translate as a Trump win and Chuck is sick and tired to death of so much "winning." He will happily prevent a budget deal and immigration reform, even DACA and sink the markets as long as he believes that it will also sink Trump and the Republicans with the added benefit of shoring up his support and adulation from the hard Progressive Left of his party. I think that his long-term strategy is to get McConnell to put a "clean" DACA bill written by the Democrats with no input from Republicans and no concessions to the House or to Trump in order for it to go down in defeat (and he doesn't care where it gets defeated, Senate, House, White House, just as long as it cannot possibly pass) so that the party can head into the elections with battle cries of racism, xenophobia and hatred of innocent children who have done nothing wrong.

That certainly appears to be the plan, or a variation thereof. Like I said before it comes down to messaging and he lost the first round. He's going to have to find a way to reframe the debate and so far there's no evidence of that.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Well, the reframe is going to be when he does not get a clean DACA bill being signed by Trump. I already stated what I think that will be. When he shuts down government to get his vote, the reframe is going to be that McConnell, and by extension, the Republicans are all hateful racist liars who want to deport "children."

 

[Amoebah]

Maybe they won't want to come back once they realize what a shithole they were lucky to get out of.

People come to the usa
From everywhere
To go to school
Or become trained
Then go home and
Make a life
And some come back

Obamas father
For example

They do it legally
So why not put
The dreamers
In the same boat

Thanks for coming
Your visa has expired
Your daca has expired
Same difference
Time to go home

 

[bellisarius]

Well, the reframe is going to be when he does not get a clean DACA bill being signed by Trump. I already stated what I think that will be. When he shuts down government to get his vote, the reframe is going to be that McConnell, and by extension, the Republicans are all hateful racist liars who want to deport "children."

Well, that is the first meme that has to be dispelled. We are not talking about "children." We are talking about adults ranging in age from 18 to 30. I've not seen or heard that fact from the press or the democrats (no surprise there) but what is odd is that no republican has bothered to point that fact out.

 

[WoundedKnee]

You are welcome to reapply.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Well, that is the first meme that has to be dispelled. We are not talking about "children." We are talking about adults ranging in age from 18 to 30. I've not seen or heard that fact from the press or the democrats (no surprise there) but what is odd is that no republican has bothered to point that fact out.

Nor from anyone on this board arguing for them, the framing is that these are very young children who only speak English and have no chance at a life in a strange culture even though they are surrounded by it in their home and new community (barrio).

 

[coati]

Instead of dwelling on the now past, we should look ahead 2 1/2 weeks when the Senate Democrats have refused to negotiate in good faith on immigration/budget issues...

Now, you can attack me or you can tell me what you think about what happens next.

Your premise is wrong in identifying the Senate Democrats as the sole source of non-good-faith bargaining. With that fatal flaw, the subsequent two-way discussion in this thread is superfluous.

 

[Amoebah]

If a government
Cant pass a budget
Its not a government

 

[WoundedKnee]

Thank you for your opinion. I have no comment for you. Do, please feel free to skip everything that has been discussed this morning. Your contributions will not be missed after the display you put on yesterday.

 

[WoundedKnee]

If a government
Cant pass a budget
Its not a government

I'll bet that many governments operate without a budget.

 

[coati]

If a government
Cant pass a budget
Its not a government

Ooops, sorry, I should have said 3-way discussion-- I did not have my glasses on so I overlooked the one-celled organism.

 

[bellisarius]

Nor from anyone on this board arguing for them, the framing is that these are very young children who only speak English and have no chance at a life in a strange culture even though they are surrounded by it in their home and new community (barrio).

Create the image that tugs at the heart strings. Anything new there? How often have we discussed the "feelings trump reason" motive that propels the left?

 

[coati]

Thank you for your opinion. I have no comment for you. Do, please feel free to skip everything that has been discussed this morning. Your contributions will not be missed after the display you put on yesterday.

I don't skip anything when entering a right-wing echo chamber, particularly the premise of the discussion.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Trump is Hitler. Dreamers are rainbows and unicorns.

 

[Amoebah]

The dreamers
Have to go home
And tag up
No stealing citizenship
Without tagging up

 

[bellisarius]

The dreamers
Have to go home
And tag up
No stealing citizenship
Without tagging up

The current rules grant them work permits, not citizenship. For that they have to get in line like everyone else. The question is, "are the democrats pushing for full citizenship?" I haven't seen a clear answer to that yet.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I'm not sure if there is even any consensus as to what their goals are, which is pretty much always the story for the party that does not occupy the White House.

 

[Amoebah]

The current rules grant them work permits, not citizenship. For that they have to get in line like everyone else. The question is, "are the democrats pushing for full citizenship?" I haven't seen a clear answer to that yet.

I have heard the line
Path to citizenship
Many many times
Havent you?
Since at least bush jr

I used edu visa students
As a comparison
Another temporary status
With a beginning and end

Open ended two year extentions
Without tagging up
Gives illegals more status
Than those who
Follow the rules

That is what
Needs correction

 

[bellisarius]

I'm not sure if there is even any consensus as to what their goals are, which is pretty much always the story for the party that does not occupy the White House.

Makes it hard to get pinned down.

I have heard the line
Path to citizenship
Many many times
Havent you?
Since at least bush jr

I used edu visa students
As a comparison
Another temporary status
With a beginning and end

Open ended two year extentions
Without tagging up
Gives illegals more status
Than those who
Follow the rules

That is what
Needs correction

Agreed

 

[WoundedKnee]

This is the sort of thing that leads to 17 candidates on two stages.