God parent responsibilities

[Cheyenne]

God parent responsibilities- nonChristian point of view?

I'm Christian, so my concept of being a God parent is the role that is traditionally assigned for a baptism. The godparents speak for the child, and promise to make sure the child is brought up to learn about the church he or she is being baptised in. It is a religious, non -legal role. A role of honor.

Legal guardian is a different concept. That is a role assigned by the parents' will naming an adult (or adults) who would legally be responsible as guardians for the children until they reach the age of 18.

All the children in one family usually have the same named legal guardians. Each child also usually has a separate god mother and god father, not the same for each child.

Here's my question: If naming God parents for a baby as part of baptism is a Christian concept, do non-Christians name God parents, too? Pagans? Jews (I don't think so)? If so, what role would these godparents play in the life of a non-Christian child? Has the concept of godparents been changed to be an honory title to non-Christians? To be the same as the concept of legal guardians?

 

[Angel]

In my family it has become just a kind of honorary title. It was of course a tradition to do it the proper way, and now it just kind of carried over into us Non-Christians.


Think of it like this. Xander is an honorary Uncle. Someone who is an adopted family member of not only the family but special to the child.

 

[InnesLane]

I was raised in a Catholic family and the idea of being a God Parent is much as you described. However; I never knew my God Parents and my siblings God Parents only counted on birthdays because they'd send a card with an extra five dollars in it.

So even among Christians I think the title has become honorary to a large degree. I'm a God Parent myself to my sister's daughter but I've never once sat down with her to teach her about God or religion. On the other hand, she does have a special place in my heart. She's my favorite niece and has told me more than once that I'm her favorite uncle. I don't know if that has something to do with me knowing at some deep level that I'm her Godfather or just that she's a great kid and that my sister and I are very, very close.

I didn't answer your question, did I?

 

[Cheyenne]

I didn't answer your question, did I?

Nope, you didn't.

I already know the Christian answer to what being a godparent means. I have 4 godchildren myself- from small child all the way to married with a child of her own! I take being a godmother a little more seriously than just giving cards/gifts. I made a promise with each of them at their baptisms. I am lucky- the parents of each of them have done a good job (so far) in taking them to church and teaching them. Chances of me being needed to ensure proper Christian instruction are very slim. They all have a special place in my heart though, as you said.

 

[Demian]

Hi, Cheye

You know I care about you

But if you stripped the Money away from the so-called Church, you'ld find that they know absolutely nothing about Jesus

Wut do they have to do with your children?

I know your Spirit will protect all of your children from the Church

Always
S

 

[Weird Harold]

Has the concept of godparents been changed to be an honory title to non-Christians? To be the same as the concept of legal guardians?

I think if you trace the concept of "godparents" back far enough, you'll find that god parents were originally the persons designated to take over raising the child if something happened to the parents -- essentially the same as designating a legal guardian is today.

Over the centuries, as life expectancy rose to the point where parents could resonably expect to live long enough to raise a child to adulthood, the duties and responsibilities of godparent and legal guardian became separated into spitiual and secular distinctions.

Xander's concept of being a god-parent I think is closer to the original intent of the practice than the modern definitions.

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Re: God parent responsibilities

Xander's concept of being a god-parent I think is closer to the original intent of the practice than the modern definitions.

I disagree. The concept of being a Godparent has a religious origination.

http://www.egodparent.co.uk/HistoryGodparenting.htm

The History of Godparents

By Professor Ian Markham and the Revd Giles Legood
Co-authors – The Godparent’s Handbook (SPCK, 1997)


Originally the need for Godparents (or sponsors as they used to be called) arose when people converted to Christianity from another religion. In the ancient world, there were many religions each with different practices and beliefs. When members of a different religion (what Christians then called pagans) decided that they wanted to become Christians, they would offer themselves for baptism. They would have to approach the local Bishop (the person who had pastoral responsibility for Christians in a particular town) who would want to be reassured of the genuineness of the decision. Converts would then be asked to find a Christian friend who would vouch for them. This friend would undertake to the Bishop that they would support the convert and ensure that s/he would be helped to become a faithful member of the church.

Sponsors
In the second century the idea arose of having a sponsor for babies when they were baptised. In many ways it was a natural extension of the existing practice for adults. In the same way that non-Christians received help to grow into their new faith so, it was felt, did a baby. Until the ninth century it was assumed that the Godparents of a child would be its natural parents. Certainly it was expected that the Godparents should be very close to the child. Indeed, Emperor Justinian prohibited marriage between Godparents and Godchildren. This prohibition continues in the Roman Catholic Church today. From the ninth century onwards Godparents were expected to be someone other than the natural parents. At this time there was no fixed rule as to the number of Godparents permitted but in the fourteenth century it was recommended that there should only be one Godparent or at most two - one male, one female.

Legal Role
One interesting feature of this brief history of Godparents is that there is no mention of the legal role. One of the most widespread myths is that the Godparents become the legal guardians of the child if its parents die. It is worth being clear about this: Godparents never had any legal responsibility for the child. The law surrounding guardians is interesting. Traditionally the child was the father’s property, and so it was the father who decided all the issues relating to the child’s upbringing. If the child’s father was dead or absent, then it was the duty of the parish to care for the child. From a legal point of view, it was in 1891 that the child’s moral welfare was first considered (The Custody of Children Act). The mothers had to wait another 34 years for their rights were acknowledged. It was only in a Parliamentary Act of 1925 that they were granted legal rights of access.

Today in cases of disputed custody it is the Family Division of the Courts that rule on the case. Even when parents of a child determine the guardians in a will (i.e. those legally responsible for the child in the event of their death) this is not legally binding. The Family Division will finally determine who the guardians are. If legal responsibilities concern you, you need not worry, there is no legal link between the child and the Godparent.

 

[Chuckus]

Since I am a God-Parent of my best friends little boy I will make a quick synopsis of how I see my role.

There was no "legal" papers drawing up that I was a God Parent. In fact I do not know if there are any..........maybe so.

I view my role as a God Parent to be like a "dad". If something should happen to either of his parents, it will be my responsibility to raise him, teach him, take care of him. Basically anything he needs or would have gotten from the parent(s) I would take that upon myself.

In light of that, if nothing should ever happen to either of them I see my role as the following: To be a good example and be the "uncle" that he never had. I will be a good role model for him. I celebrate his birthdays as the "uncle" that he doesn't really biologically have. It is with great honor and respect that I chose to accept there faith and courage to bestow this honorary title given to me that could possible have some serious ramifications.

Maybe that is or isn't what your asking or looking for but just the same that is a short version of how I see it and view it.

 

[Cheyenne]

Pagan godparents are Faeries?

Is this true? Where are all the non-Christians around here? I really am trying to learn their point of view vs. the Christian origin of the God parent role.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/5079/wrop.html

Birthing/Wiccaning/Paganing

This ritual does not commit a child to any religious path, not even Wicca or Paganism. It is an affirmation of the parents' and the group's commitment to the child. That commitment is for love, teaching, freedom to explore other paths and ways of life, and caring (and much more). The High Priest should preside for a girl; the High Priestess for a boy. The age of the child at the time of the ritual is for the parents to decide. (For Joshua, age 1 week; for Thor who was premature & spent months in the hospital, age 6 months.) The parents typically choose a "secret name" for the child and usually also name a "Faerie God Mother and God Father" for the child. The Faerie God Parents agree to raise and/or teach the child if, for some reason, the parents cannot. The Goddess and the God are asked to "bless, protect & prepare" the child for her/his childhood & to "make clear" the proper path for this particular child. Gifts are also presented to the child at the end of the ritual. During most Wiccaning/Paganing rituals the child is introduced to the elements by walking with the child around the Circle & finally to the center to introduce the child to the gods.

 

[Cheyenne]

Maybe that is or isn't what your asking or looking for but just the same that is a short version of how I see it and view it.

But are you non-Christian? Are the parents of your godchild non-Christian? Was there a baptism in a church where you stood there as the God father and pledged for the child? I'm guessing there was.

I'm looking more for info from the non-Christian sector of the bb. Do non-Christian parents appoint Godparents for their children, and, if they do, why?

 

[ksmybuttons]

Spiritual Guardians

I choose not to practice a religion. However, I am strongly spiritual.

When my child was born, I chose the two most spiritually based people in my life and asked them to be my child's godparents. We made this a formal ceremony.

They are role models for him. They give him an example on how to live life. They talk to him about morals and kindness and love and fear. They teach him how to care for others.

I chose well, they are people who set a strong spiritual base for him. I know that, even if I am no longer available as a guardian, they will stay in his life and help him to grow into a strong, caring man even though it will be a family member who would be his physical guardian. They are his spiritual guardians.

 

[Chuckus]

But are you non-Christian? Are the parents of your godchild non-Christian? Was there a baptism in a church where you stood there as the God father and pledged for the child? I'm guessing there was.

I'm looking more for info from the non-Christian sector of the bb. Do non-Christian parents appoint Godparents for their children, and, if they do, why?

I do believe in God, don't goto Church regularly or anything Cheyenne. I define myself religously as God fearing and God believing and apparently that is defined as Christian. Some in the "church" call me a "bad Christian" because I do not choose to subscribe to "organized religion" per say.

I was in fact at his baptism. Yes.

Interesting topic Cheyenne.

 

[Dillinger]

Re: Pagan godparents are Faeries?

You need to keep in mind that there is no one wiccan/pagan path... there is no one single overriding authority (like the Pope)... by nature pagans are not centrally organized, nor was the beliefs of the early pagans. It is a very open and accepting belief system, in its purist form. (At least until Gerald Brosseau Gardner,1884-1964, came along - http://www.geraldgardner.com/index/main.shtml - Gardner had his own interpretation that he sort to solidify and centralize and many modern day wiccans follow his particular brand of wicca... for the record, I DO NOT, I also happen to be a student of the Golden Dawn and Gardner and Crowley were not on the best of terms, to say the least, and there are still wiccans today who hold Gardner's hatred for Crowley and Crowley's ideas...)


Historically pagans accepted and honored the goddess and gods and beliefs of all others as well as their own. This stemmed from a universal belief that all gods/goddesses were one (actually two - the male and the female in all their various forms - though, even then there was the belief that male/female was itself a manifestation of the one). and presented themselves to us in many different forms.

This is why it was so very easy for the early Church to take over as the controlling religious authority. Pagans did not see Christianity as competition - they honored the Christian God as they did all others, even if they thought the believers had a screw loose by believing that their God was the only God. This made it easy for the Church to persecute those "non-believers" that they were not able to indoctrinate into their own religion (the Church adopted many pagan customs and transformed them into their own rites as a method of giving the "common people" comfort in the familiar while, at the same time, propegating their own beliefs).

What you have read/posted below is just one group's own interpretation of what is a multi-faceted and non-centralized belief system.

Is this true? Where are all the non-Christians around here? I really am trying to learn their point of view vs. the Christian origin of the God parent role.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/5079/wrop.html

Birthing/Wiccaning/Paganing

This ritual does not commit a child to any religious path, not even Wicca or Paganism. It is an affirmation of the parents' and the group's commitment to the child. That commitment is for love, teaching, freedom to explore other paths and ways of life, and caring (and much more). The High Priest should preside for a girl; the High Priestess for a boy. The age of the child at the time of the ritual is for the parents to decide. (For Joshua, age 1 week; for Thor who was premature & spent months in the hospital, age 6 months.) The parents typically choose a "secret name" for the child and usually also name a "Faerie God Mother and God Father" for the child. The Faerie God Parents agree to raise and/or teach the child if, for some reason, the parents cannot. The Goddess and the God are asked to "bless, protect & prepare" the child for her/his childhood & to "make clear" the proper path for this particular child. Gifts are also presented to the child at the end of the ritual. During most Wiccaning/Paganing rituals the child is introduced to the elements by walking with the child around the Circle & finally to the center to introduce the child to the gods.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I have been a Christian, and am a pagan now. Both of my children were baptized by Lutheran pastors, following those traditions, with God parents named. This was done, not through my belief, but to honor the beliefs of my husband. Both girls have also had ceremonies done to welcome them to this life, as follows my belief system.

I'm not Wiccan, and so did not do a 'Wiccanning' as was posted above. I did not dedicate my children to the path, and no 'god-parents' were named in my rituals. I don't think it's anyone's responsibility to ensure that my children are raised according to any spiritual path. They're exposed to many, occasionally attend church with their father, participate in minor rituals with me, and have attended various other churches with family members. When they feel a need to dedicate themselves to a path, it will be their job to find teachers.

Interestingly, when I was preparing for my first child's baptism, I was talking to the pastor and telling him that I had issues with the whole concept of baptizing babies. I grew up in churches in which you were baptised as an adult when you had made the decision to follow Christ as your savior. Obviously, a child can't make this decision, and I don't believe they need cleansed of sin either, as they're newly formed perfect people when they arrive in this life. The pastor told me that he too, had problems with some of that and that he chooses to think of baptism as a welcoming to the family of the church, not as a dedication or cleansing of sin. Which sounds a lot like the Wiccanning mentioned above. Does this go agaist Christian teachings?

 

[Chuckus]

Interestingly, when I was preparing for my first child's baptism, I was talking to the pastor and telling him that I had issues with the whole concept of baptizing babies. I grew up in churches in which you were baptised as an adult when you had made the decision to follow Christ as your savior. Obviously, a child can't make this decision, and I don't believe they need cleansed of sin either, as they're newly formed perfect people when they arrive in this life. The pastor told me that he too, had problems with some of that and that he chooses to think of baptism as a welcoming to the family of the church, not as a dedication or cleansing of sin. Which sounds a lot like the Wiccanning mentioned above. Does this go agaist Christian teachings?

I tend to agree (the child should be old enough to make their own mind up), but the subject of baptism really has no bearing on the topic, other than should a God parent Baptize (sp?, sorry) a child or not........and IMHO that is the parents/God Parents decision only. The God Parent should/would do what the parents would have in the event something would happen to the parents prior to any Baptism.

Hope I didn't offend you or anyone, that is just my opinion.

 

[Calamity Jane]

The God Parent should/would do what the parents would have in the event something would happen to the parents prior to any Baptism.

Hope I didn't offend you or anyone, that is just my opinion.

But that's completely irrelevant in a lot of churches. My children were both baptised within a month afer being born. My mother-in-law was freaking out that it wasn't done in the hospital... she kept calling and asking when we'd have it done, because if the babies died, they couldn't get into heaven unless they'd been baptised.

And no chuckus... you'd have to work awful hard to offend me.

 

[Astro]

I'm Pagan, and have never heard of God-parents in our naming rituals. However as Paganism is very very vaired in may be in some traditions.

I have only met my God-Parents a few times ( riased Chritain), but I would take it as an honour. A mark that these people would be able to teach/raise your child.

 

[Cheyenne]

But that's completely irrelevant in a lot of churches. My children were both baptised within a month afer being born. My mother-in-law was freaking out that it wasn't done in the hospital... she kept calling and asking when we'd have it done, because if the babies died, they couldn't get into heaven unless they'd been baptised.

Yes, that would be the teaching of the Lutheran church. At least in the more conservative synods. Your mother-in-law definitely sounds like she belongs to one of those. It was what I was taught as a child, too. No babtism, no entrance to heaven. Babies are born into sin, not born innocent "newly formed perfect people." The church has softened that approach somewhat. Also, the baptism ceremony itself does have an element of welcoming the baby into the church.

 

[Cheyenne]

Thanks to those who took time to answer my questions.

What I think I conclude from this limited discussion: Legal guardians are not the same as God parents (although they could be if the parents chose the same people for both roles.)

The concept of having God parents is Christian in origin and is not common among non-Christians.

Both Christians and non-Christians would, of course, have to deal with the issue of legal guardians for children should something happen to the parents.

 

[Chuckus]

But that's completely irrelevant in a lot of churches. My children were both baptised within a month afer being born. My mother-in-law was freaking out that it wasn't done in the hospital... she kept calling and asking when we'd have it done, because if the babies died, they couldn't get into heaven unless they'd been baptised.

And no chuckus... you'd have to work awful hard to offend me.

Glad I didn't offend you or anyone else, I wasn't trying to. Just putting in my .02 worth.

Interesting topic, actually. I am surprised more have not replied...

 

[Cheyenne]

Interesting topic, actually. I am surprised more have not replied...

Me, too. But then maybe non-Christians didn't even read it just based on the title.