God, god, or gawd

[AsylumSeeker]

Reminds me of the OK, Ok, or okay thread I posted a while back, only different.

Okay, so from an editing perspective, how should an editor deal with the written word "God" versus "god"? What separates the pronoun from the other? And suddenly I am preferring to "borrow" SR's "gawd" in my latest story because I do find the other violates my comfort level while SR's verson conveys the same emotion without the violation. Thanks, SR!

Not to sound confusing, but when should "God" be "God", and when should "god" be "god"?

Oh gawd!

I apologize in advance for anyone who may be offended by this thread or others, for LadyC has told me in a PM that she has received numerous complaints from other users frequenting this forum about how upsetting my recent posts have been.

 

[_Lynn_]

Reminds me of the OK, Ok, or okay thread I posted a while back, only different.

Okay, so from an editing perspective, how should an editor deal with the written word "God" versus "god"? What separates the pronoun from the other? And suddenly I am preferring to "borrow" SR's "gawd" in my latest story because I do find the other violates my comfort level while SR's verson conveys the same emotion without the violation. Thanks, SR!

Not to sound confusing, but when should "God" be "God", and when should "god" be "god"?

Oh gawd!

I apologize in advance for anyone who may be offended by this thread or others, for LadyC has told me in a PM that she has received numerous complaints from other users frequenting this forum about how upsetting my recent posts have been.

"Oh god, yes!"

"Yes, God sent me."

The way I remember it is by whether or not it's used as a religious term. If so, then it's a cap. If not, then it isn't.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

"Oh god, yes!"

"Yes, God sent me."

The way I remember it is by whether or not it's used as a religious term. If so, then it's a cap. If not, then it isn't.

That thought is logical (watched the Star Trek movie at work today -- okay, a long lunch, hoping she's not here)

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Sigh

Yeah, I know ML. And yet here I am.

 

[_Lynn_]

That thought is logical (watched the Star Trek movie at work today -- okay, a long lunch, hoping she's not here)

Nothing wrong with logic is there?

Yeah, I know ML. And yet here I am.

What a coincidence. I'm here too!

 

[CopperSkink]

If people want to be offended by what they read, that's their perogative, or however it's spelled. But to report it rather than to stop reading? That's taking a piss.

Down to business. After reading Kellog's two series, I was very encouraged that a story could go on that long without losing originality. But after reading "gawd" for the upteenth time towards the end of the second series, I committed myself to the Chinese Hell of Banging One's Head Against One's Own Desk.

As to whether "God" should be capitalized or not, I follow and advise "God when it's refering to one's perception of whatever almighty he or she might believe in, god for explitives."

As to an explitive, hereby complain when I see "oh god!" "oh God!" or "oh gwad!" too many times. Just because you, the author, or your long-standing partner tends to have religious orgasms (oh god!) doesn't mean everyone else does. tl;dr, it shouldn't be a trademark of every character you write about. Have one that prefers, "oh fuck," one that says, "oh Humperdunk!" (Humperdunk being the one delivering the fucking). Or have quiet people in bed. Or do the Bellatrix Lestrange model, "fuck me like I'm back in grade school."

When it comes to the particulars of a given word or rule, consider not only the logical conclusion, but the alternatives available as well. What other words can we use in the situation?

Back to the subject, I like the natural-looking, logical conclusion to any problem. Here, the word "god" is definable as an omnisient being, or simply a swear word. "Christ," on the other hand, is the name of a historical character (or for those who argue, simply a proper name), and as such, maintains its capitalization.

Ergo, capitalize when refering to his or her rendition of a proper character. If not, don't.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Then we have the peculiarly English habit of addressing the deity in the Christian superstition in the second person singular ("hallowed be thy name) ...

 

[sr71plt]

Agree with Mistress Lynn's take on this. I do, indeed, use "gawd" for my less-educated, more-folksy characters, though.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I dunno...I think that I just find out what my character would say and think.
the 20-something party girl is likely to say and feel something different than the 30 something woman
context of whatever event is in play matters too.

 

[ManofMastery]

Since Americans rarely if ever say 'God' but actually give out with the 'Gaad' word, I find many responses here quite amusing.

 

[CopperSkink]

I'm gonna have to rebuke that. "Americans rarely... say 'God'" is a false statement, in that all of us, collectively, have to abide by such a code, and plenty of them do say such a word many times on a daily basis, me being one of them.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Agree with CS on this

I was brought up Christian, and this is why I've had such difficulty with this that I have brought the question here. When editing I have always "corrected" so that "God" was always capitalized, until I was challenged by a writer that this is not always true.

And so I have learned from this experience that, perhaps, such is not always the case. Besides, as our too-eager-to-bow President has proclaimed, we are not a nation of Christians, so maybe I better start learning to be more open.

 

[sr71plt]

Since Americans rarely if ever say 'God' but actually give out with the 'Gaad' word, I find many responses here quite amusing.

We must hang around with different Americans. Haven't heard the "gaad" pronunciation outside of Boston. And America covers a really, r e a l l y big area beyond Boston.

 

[sr71plt]

I was brought up Christian, and this is why I've had such difficulty with this that I have brought the question here. When editing I have always "corrected" so that "God" was always capitalized, until I was challenged by a writer that this is not always true.

I would think that a Christian would be more comfortable with the exclamation "god" (as opposed to direct reference to the diety) being lowercased than they would be seeing it capitalized.

 

[_Lynn_]

We must hang around with different Americans. Haven't heard the "gaad" pronunciation outside of Boston. And America covers a really, r e a l l y big area beyond Boston.

I would think that a Christian would be more comfortable with the exclamation "god" (as opposed to direct reference to the diety) being lowercased than they would be seeing it capitalized.

I agree with both of these.

I don't think I've ever heard 'gaad' where I live.

Using a cap for 'god' when it's not referring to religion I would think might offend some Christians.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I agree with both of these.

I don't think I've ever heard 'gaad' where I live.

Using a cap for 'god' when it's not referring to religion I would think might offend some Christians.

I won't venture to say that ML is wrong, but I do know my feelings. To depricate my God to a back seat is not acceptable. He is kind. He is just, and He is in me. And I'm unashamed to say so.

 

[CopperSkink]

Neither am I. However, I'm comfortable with the idea that "god" is an arbetrary word that does not necessarily refer to the Christian diety.

I'm also comfortable with saying that we are not a nation of Christians. To say so would imply several things:

1. That those who do not follow the Christian faith (Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Buddists, Athiests, Scientologists, Hematologists, professional editors) are not fully-embraced citizens.

2. That the rules of the Christian Bible are paramount in all aspects of law, from county to federal.

3. That the practicing of non-Christian faiths or religions is pollitically incorrect for US citizens.

There's a law somewhere in the United States that says that the church and the state are separate. Mostly because everyone can't decide on which church has the proper mandate, but that's a discussion for another thread. The only law to do with religion (and or faith) is that a person has a right to practice whatever s/he likes without persecution (within the boundaries of law. Sacrificing a goat is fine, but not people). Besides that, what you do in your church is between you and your god; it's got nothing to do with the law.

Which is why my eye twitches every time I see "Ban gay marriage because it says in the Bible homosexuality isn't okay."

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... There's a law somewhere in the United States that says that the church and the state are separate. ...

How do you square the First Amendment with the fact that "In God We Trust" is the official motto of the United States and has appeared on United States money 1864?

This dichotomy seems odd to outsiders, with the implication that every US citizen has a God but no established religion, even the atheists.

 

[CopperSkink]

There was that athiest who sued a school district to make them stop forcing his son to do the "In God we trust" part of the National Anthem. Oh lordy did that piss people off, but he was right.

We US Americans live in a rather puzzling society. On one hand, we pride ourselves on being the free country, where rights are reserved and priviledges are enjoyed. On the other hand, if you're not a white anglo-saxon prodestant (male), you don't belong and you never will.

Interesting that it's the members of this not-so-secret club that cheer loudest about being patriotic. Personally, I feel patrioticism means pride in one's country. This country is not one I'm proud of, and I don't have any use for pride. Too bad for me; a lack of patrioticism is regarded as a sin punishable by exile by more than enough US Americans, my father included.

I'd rather live in a country where I wasn't forced to show public pride in a country that hosts such a hurtful double-standard. One where the language didn't have so many useless words. I mean, I studied French for about four years, and I was quite good at it. But the stupid American English language, I spend most of my time reading and writing as well as studying to improve, and not only do I still not have it right yet, but I argue along with everyone else about how the correct way to write something is.

This country makes me ashamed to be white, makes me ashamed to be anglo-saxon, makes me ashamed to be Prodestent (by birth, at least. I'm more agnostic by now). The only thing I can't say this country personally ruined was the male. It's indeed a man's world, but only because men are too much cowards intimidated by women to allow women an equal voice.

But maybe one day we'll have a female President. Hopefully not Paulin.

 

[MisterSir]

I use them interchangably, because I'm atheist and they mean exactly the same thing to me, but I do find I tend to use "God" when discussing the Abrahamic God - that of Islam, Judaism and Christianity - because it's just more specific.

 

[CopperSkink]

Counter-point:

"God" as a name only applies to the Christian diety. The Islam and Hebrew religions each have their own names. If you want to say "god of Hindu" or "gods of Rome," then you use lower-case, as the word "god" is only a title, not a proper name. For that, you use Vinshu, Jove, Thor, Allah, or what have you. When you put "God" amidst those names as its own name, that's the Christian dude.

 

[sr71plt]

Agree with MisterSir. The Hebrews, Christians, and Muslims are all based in the same section of the Old Testament and in the same God. When that's what is being referred to in a rendering of "God" in a manuscript, it's capped. (Actually when it's used as a direct name substitute in any religion, even one with multiple gods, the Chicago Manual of Style says it should be capitalized. 8.99)

When it's used as an interjection, derived by a curse phrase, I lowercase it.

As far as "In God We Trust" on U.S. coinage, the United States is an old, complex political system. There are all sorts of disconnects in current law/practice and founding principles/Constititutional wording. In our system, it takes just x number of votes to vote anything into federal law ("In God We Trust" was voted in during the Eishenhower adminstration, I think) and all it takes is a stroke of the president's pen to put an administrative procedure into functional effect (which may to contrary to a law). It takes a Supreme Court case (and the Court picks and chooses what laws it will review) to get a law off the books. So there continue to be disconnects. It's mushy; it's flexible; it's led to a system older than most any others and still ticking.

 

[CopperSkink]

But a direct name substitute is not a name, and therefore not proper. To Christians, "God" is a name (somewhat altered through the ages, I'm sure. He was probably refered to as "El" some seven thousand year ago). Anything else would be a pronoun, which aren't capitalized.

 

[_Lynn_]

But a direct name substitute is not a name, and therefore not proper. To Christians, "God" is a name (somewhat altered through the ages, I'm sure. He was probably refered to as "El" some seven thousand year ago). Anything else would be a pronoun, which aren't capitalized.

So if it becomes too complicated for ya, don't use the word.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

But a direct name substitute is not a name, and therefore not proper. To Christians, "God" is a name (somewhat altered through the ages, I'm sure. He was probably refered to as "El" some seven thousand year ago). Anything else would be a pronoun, which aren't capitalized.

This is turning out to be an interesting thread, if nothing else. I have been told that in Jewish writings the name God is so devout that early writings used "g*d" to express the name while not wholly spelling it out. Just what I've been told by a Jewish friend.

I initally asked the question in response to writers I've edited for who complained that my capitalizations were wrong. And when challenged, or just uncertain, I ask here.

Thanks for the varied input.