Get Over Yourself.

[Sillyman]

Typically I respond to people in need with a blend of sympathy, support, and escapism. Much of the Sillyman philosophy is to laugh when the world goes to hell, although I don't always live up to myself. I prefer to help people gbet to think about their options, and know they have my love regardless. I'm also decent at finding the silver lining will not minimizing the importance of someone's problems.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

When it comes to helping a friend I am the one who will let them lean on me and I also am the answer/option man to them. Even if the friend is a really close one to me I am usually able to distance myself from the friendship (In a good way) and give them totally honest answers and options.

When it comes to me leaning on/ getting advice from friends I tend to not do that. Here I can whine and cry about all my problems without having to put people on the spot but in real life whining and crying to my friends could put pressure on them to help me... which is something I don't care to do. But, I still prefer to figure out my problems on my own without outside help. Even though it takes a lot out of me it is better than draining someone else's energy.

 

[naudiz]

I think there is a fine line between supporting and enabling. Having sat on both sides of this fence, I can say with all due certainty that the best thing my friends ever did for me was to hand me a tall refreshing glass of shut-the-fuck-up. Sure, I was pissed, but it was the dash of cold water to the face I needed to wake up and realize I was a real drag to be around.

Still, I don't think that 'get off the cross, we need the wood' is an appropriate answer to every cry for help. It's tempting to judge everyone's pain by our own, but the fact is life is life-sized, and you can't put one incident side by side with another and measure them. Lives are collections of lessons learned and strengths weighed against weaknesses, and it's just not a place anyone needs to go. A little compassion can go a long way.

There is a point, though, where it becomes too easy to be pathetic. Especially when the trauma at hand concerns a major life change (the loss of a partner, the divorce of one's parents, the death of a loved one, the diagnosis of a major illness), the role of the weak one who needs to be coddled can, if supported too much, become a matter of identity. That is what this person becomes. It is how s/he has come to identify with the world around him/her. The only way to communicate seems to be to complain and fixate, because this is what gets attention and results.

The only problem is these people become unbearable, and their friends start to drift away one by one, and the identity of wounded soul is given a kind of twisted validation by that.

When I see people, here on Lit. and in RL, who keep coming up with the same complaints, the same problems, and the same trauma, and after lots of good support and advice, they still keep doing the things that bring about the situations that cause them to be upset, well, I bite my tongue. It's not my place in a lot of cases to say anything. I do start turning a blind eye, though. We've all had pain, and we've all had bad days, and don't even try to compare your heartache to mine, because racing someone to the bottom is the most pathetic game I can think of.

It's when the complaining, the constant crises, and the constant need for validation gets out of control that the cruel bastard in me wants to come out to play. I'm not a good source of sympathy on a good day. When people come to me with a problem, I assume they want it solved. Patting backs and saying 'there there' isn't my style. I can do it to a point, but when it's the same old crap day in and day out, I get closer and closer to snapping, "Look, life sucks. Buy a fucking helmet."

I'm a little wound up tonight. I just got done with a conversation of this nature. "I have this problem." "Let it go." "I can't let it go." "Yes, you can." "No, I really can't." "I think you don't want to." "No, that's not true! I just can't." "Well, sounds like life sucks for you." "What?" "I said hang in there, it'll get better."

I was going somewhere with this. Oh, right. There is a fine line between lending much needed support and enabling someone to become emotionally crippled. When it becomes clear the person doesn't want to get better, I back off. Sounds cruel, but this girl has her own shit to take care of. She can't den-mama the world 24/7.

 

[Calamity Jane]

It can sound callous sometimes, but when someone is facing a challenge, yes, I will listen. I may even offer hugs. Then, at some point, I will press them with , "Now, waht?"

This is pretty much the way I approach things too. I'm more than happy to offer support, a shoulder, or some damn fine advice. But, eventually, I fully expect the people to stand on their own and make their life happen. I ask questions, steer conversations toward action instead of pity, and occasionally tell them to pull their heads out of their asses long enough to notice that the entire world has moved on without them.

*edited because i realized i didn't answer the entire question*

Generally, if friends offer support, I use them as a sounding board, and then move on. I very rarely spend time feeling sorry for myself.

 

[PacificBlue]

*Sometimes* I think things are misunderstood. I think sometimes people want those around them to react and behave as they do to life. I think what's forgetten is that we all have our own lessons to learn and we do that in our own time, at different times, and at our own pace.

Just yesterday...someone asked if I if I was ever 'fucken' happy. Yes, I do have moments of true joy. Lately, those are little harder to find. I'm struggling to find myself. I am reinventing myself to be the person I want to be. I'm seeing that I'm posting way to much about that here and I'll consider that feedback. I've seperated myself from the group of friends I used to hang with because it wasn't healthy for me. Literally...I'm hanging by myself right now. Building new friendships is hard and it doesn't happen overnight.

If I'm answering the question as to what type of friend I am... in face-to-face relationships I rarely talk the way I do here. I hold people off at arm's length and I'm the one to nod and listen.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Just stopping back in to say that Naudiz is, in fact, one who rocks.

 

[alexandraaah]

Everyone's posts are so thoughtful...thank you for all the insights.

I'm still reading.

 

[Sillyman]

Everyone's posts are so thoughtful...thank you for all the insights.

I'm still reading.

Send a wink my way when you are done. I have a deep and involving crisis that I desperately need support with. I'm really horny. Okay, well everyone at Lit has that problem, but still.

 

[alexandraaah]

Send a wink my way when you are done. I have a deep and involving crisis that I desperately need support with. I'm really horny. Okay, well everyone at Lit has that problem, but still.

I shall.

Hell, you can have the wink now, I'll tell ya to get over yourself later. Heh.

<wink>

 

[Sillyman]

I shall.

Hell, you can have the wink now, I'll tell ya to get over yourself later. Heh.

<wink>

<wink>

Always there for a friend I see.

 

[patient1]

Uh- I've said enough about my present situation to enough of you, and I'd like to thank everyone for not saying "Get over yourself". That wold have sounded too much like "Get yourself overwith" to somebody that doubts their life still has a point.

I usually value friends that use MissTaken's methods, and ask me what I'm going to do. That's what I might normally do for a friend.Usually, that's what I need. Recently I'd have found those questions too daunting.

There's another technique I read in one of Zig Ziglar's books. He cites a mental health expert . The situation is someone that fears they are losing their mind. The solution is to find someone & be of assistance to them...

...Anyway, it means that we can find meaning in our lives by being useful to someone else, even when we're of no use to ourselves. It's often the quickest fix. Sometimes giving a ride to a person with a cane on a hot day is the only thing that helps me through it.

Sometimes figuring out a way for your friend to do something that somebody appreciates is the best thing you can do for them, if only for the diversion, if only for them to see that somebody else is worse off, if only to remind them of the talents & resources they still have, but take for granted.

 

[Nora]

Funny you bring this up now. LOL

I have a friend whom I'd listen to on the phone rambling about her men for hours and hours and hours and hours *literally*. I'd nod and agree and encourage her and I was basically interested simply because she was my friend and I loved her very much. She was generally very good to me. (although she DID forget my birthday *grumbles*)

Then I had something happen with a guy and it just knocked me down for a bit. I know I was obsessing over it, the way I think a lot of people do when something or someone hurts you and you weren't expecting it. I really only had her to talk to at the time, since she was the only one who knew everything about the situation.

Maybe she was into that "tough love" thing for everyone else (not for her, of course, just for everyone else.). I dunno. She said to me "I don't wanna be in the middle of this." and I took that to mean, "don't tell me about this anymore." I think that was a fair assumption since she never inquired further. We're not talking months later, btw. This was within a matter of a couple or a few weeks after the complicating incident.

She finally figured out that I was ticked off and asked me why. So I told her, which honestly was odd for me. I don't seek confrontation and will generally just try to smooth things over 'till I get the fuck over it. I explained pretty clearly that I was upset that she blew me off. She kept breezing over that like it didn't matter and practically insisted that the *real* reason that I was mad was because she remained friends with the guy. I honestly couldn't care less who her friends are. Never have. Her blowing me off during the one period when I really needed a shoulder just compounded the hurt that I was feeling 100 fold, cuz she sure as hell meant a lot more to me that that shit-for-brains did.

So, now we're at an impass cuz we're both stubborn as hell. And it sucks ass, truth be told. And it's putting a good friend of both of ours in the middle, and I really really hate that.

And I started writing this in bitch mode honestly answering the question you asked. Then I got all patheticly mushy. But maybe if she'd just listen to what I'm saying was the problem instead of telling me what I'm upset about, maybe we could get back to being ... something anyway.

so knowing that she'll likely see this, do I delete it or hit "submit"?

 

[Laurel]

I rarely have huge problems, but when I do and I unload on a friend, I feel terribly embarrassed and ashamed. I hate imposing like that. It makes me feel like such an asshole. As such, I'm very understanding when my friends are going through tough times. I do what I can to be there for them. I know how vulnerable they feel, and how hard it is to feel that fragile.

That said, I can't handle friends who drift from one crisis to another. Beyond the fact that having to be the one who offers comfort all the time is incredibly draining, it's also a total downer to talk to someone who is always bummed/unhappy/hysterical/etc. I have a pretty small circle of friends as it is, and I just don't have time to play emotional babysitter. The people who end up being friends with me for the long term are those who can handle their shit. We may lean on each other every now and then, but we stop short of being a burden on one another.

 

[*bratcat*]

 

[RisiaSkye]

Incredibly long answers to simple, honest questions...Part 128

So, the long and the long is, when do YOU tell someone to get over themselves?

Generally, I like to let people get whatever they're feeling out in the open. Sometimes, they need someone to really listen in order for them to even find the words to express what's bothering them, you know?

Then, once the initial pain is out, I make them laugh as often and as loudly as I can. You can't tell it here in my stilted, pompous Lit voice, but I'm actually kinda funny in RL. Or so I'm told.

And then I divert the conversation to something light.

When they swing it back to their problem, I do a little more listening, ask a few action-oriented and perspective/motivation kinds of questions to get the ball rolling, and then I make them laugh again.

I don't have a prefabricated limit for how much I'll listen to someone, how much support I'm willing to offer, or anything like that. However, I *do* have a pretty low patience level for self-pity. So, if one conversation covers the same ground more than three times, rehashing the issue and licking their wounds, I might gently suggest putting it aside until they can talk about it without going around in circles about their pain. Often, that'll help--just taking a little break from going over and over and over the same ground.

Or, if it seems like ALL a person talks about is (insert crisis, trauma or problem here) for several conversations and they seem to be getting locked into victim mode, I'll start mentioniong the good things in their life. Then, I'll try to make them laugh. If that doesn't help, then I'll start pointing out the problems around them that they *don't* have. And if it's still not getting better, I'll tell them it's time to get over it--or at least to take some constructive action and stop spinning their wheels.

If someone calls on me in a crisis and I'm not really sure what they need--I'll ask. But, I won't say "what can I do?" Instead, I'll ask: "Do you need for me to hold your hand and tell you it's gonna be okay, you want me to snap you out of it, want to be distracted, do you want gut-level honesty, do you just need to vent? Let me know what I can offer you that'll help." If nothing else, I'm letting them know up front that I can change how I listen and how I offer my friendship when they need me to; and, sometimes getting someone to actually articulate what they're looking for emotionally will make them examine it a little more closely as well.

All of this is basically always true--except with my mother. She's been spouting the same vitriol about her mother and my father for literally as long as I can remember. I've tried every adult emotional skill I've ever developed, trying to get her to let go of some of her anger and bitterness, for years. At this point, I give up. She is who she is, and she clearly gets something that she needs from staying locked in this cycle.

So, I guess I enable her by continuing to listen to it. But, she's my mother and I don't feel good about telling her off about it when it doesn't really change my life or cause me any harm. And she's sick. And in a wheelchair. And blind. And lost all her teeth. And had parts of both feet amputated. All in the last six years. It seems mean spirited and more than a little callous to tell her to get over it, even though her interpersonal problems with her mom and her ex have nothing to do with her failing health.

And it's weird, because she's my mom and I feel all that daughter-duty-guilt baggage and desire to please. But, she was a *really* bad mom when I was a kid; we've always been friends, but she has only intermittently been a mother to me. So, I'm torn between friend responses and daughter sense of duty. It's kind of a no-win situation, ethically. If I'm totally honest with her, I'm going to hurt her feelings, and I won't feel good about that. But if I let her go on her rants whenever she feels like it I'm not only doing my "kid duty" begrudgingly, I'm being a bad daughter by judging her silently while miming sympathy, but I'm also failing to meet my *own* definition of a good friend by being dishonest.

But, other than with my Mom, it usually works out pretty well.
Honest.

Also, what works best when other's are dealing with you?

Usually, I just want someone to listen while I vent. Once or twice through the situation, get the nasty emotions out--bitch about what's making me mad, sad, or nervous--and I'm pretty much ready to move on.

Once in a while, if something really hits me hard, I'll get into a deep but transitory depression about it; I just sink into a funk for a few days. But, very few people ever actually see me in that headspace because I intentionally hibernate through it, and the few who *do* know that if I've stopped talking about whatever the problem is, I've reached the point where I've got to be left alone to figure it out for myself.

If I'm having performance anxiety, self-doubt, or making a big decision, I just want someone to walk me through it. Ask me the leading questions to get me to voice and recognize my own insecurity. I won't stop being insecure, but I will scale it down to human size rather than total melodrama. And if it's a big decision, work the pros and cons with me. Hash it out with me, play Devil's Advocate, whatever. Just make sure that I look at both sides before I decide anything.

Do you ever feel that someone's sympathy is perpetuating your problem?

Not very often. Usually, I run out of patience for someone's empathy, sympathy or pity well before they pull the plug on the emotionally enabling talk. I detest even the idea of being pitied--it feels like being judged and found lacking, in the worst and least flattering way, too. And empathy, sympathy and pity all run together pretty easily when it comes to my assessment of how another is seeing/hearing/judging me.

Once in a great great while I'll drink too much and dig out my sad sack stories from my still-unresolved childhood in a V.C. Andrews novel; those conversations can get pretty circular and self-pitying if left unchecked, especially if they've been drinking too. But, the stories are sufficiently gothic and bizarre that people either don't believe me, praise me ridiculously for not having grown up to be a total psycho, or pity me. Any one of those in sufficient doses, even drunk, will snap me out of it.

And, oh Good Gawd, what a long ass post. My apologies to anyone who gets this far.

 

[Parkay]

I had to say that to a friend once. It did not do any good. During the same conversation she went right back to focusing on herself. I just gave up after that and made it a point to avoid her when I could. Listening to her bitch and moan about all her problems, yet not doing anything to change anything got to be a real drag.

 

[alexandraaah]

I had to say that to a friend once. It did not do any good. During the same conversation she went right back to focusing on herself. I just gave up after that and made it a point to avoid her when I could. Listening to her bitch and moan about all her problems, yet not doing anything to change anything got to be a real drag.

Yes, but at least you were able to see that maybe your friend isn't such a good friend.

I'm guessing someday, your friend might remember your words...maybe have a change of heart.

 

[Sixth]

Hi there,

I'm Sixth. My hobbies include being a good listener and changing myself. I like to cook and keep the house clean. I don't like staying out too late at the pub or wasting time that I could be using to improve my relationship.

 

[alexandraaah]

I sixth a snake, I seventh a snake, I ate a snake.

 

[Sixth]

I ate a snake.

I have a snake you can get your lips around.

 

[lobito]

my two biggest problems are that I keep all my shit to myself, and that I let people take me for granted too much. I need to change that in my mind, but then I wouldn't be that person they've known all along too. So then what do I do?

If I change I'll be happy, and make others unhappy. It's not exactly a win-win situation is it?

I HATE (yes hate) when people use me, but some I just let do it over and over again. (damned family )

 

[Persephone36]

I'm going to preface this by saying -- I'm not judging any of the previous comments regarding how others handle this subject. This is my personal take on it -- one I've considered for a long time, and one that's influenced by my study of Buddhism. And for me -- what I'm positing here is something that I like to work positively towards. Because it's about acceptance. And ultimately accepting ourselves with unconditional kindness and love -- enables us to give that to others.

So, here's my take on this kind of issue.

If you're going to be a true loving and supportive and very, very close friend with someone -- then you need to know your OWN boundaries. If someone's in pain and doesn't see how to get themselves out of it -- then is that their fault? No. That's where they are at and who they are at that moment. I think the question is can you love them unconditionally for who they are -- no matter what their pain is and how they choose to express it? And if you can't -- then can YOU accept that within yourself, that you can't accept where they're at -- and NOT try to change them into what you think is "correct" or what you think they need to wake up to -- or how they need to be, or can you simply skip that judgment that they're just self-involved? In essence -- just leave them be and tell them that while you're their friend (or can no longer be) -- that this is a situation where you can't be there for them.

But, if you are going to be supportive it means NOT committing yourself to listening to them talk for longer than you can handle. Sometimes we all fall into the pattern of thinking we're being this wonderful amazing person because we listen (past our point of tolerance) to friends grieving and suffering over something in their lives. Does that make us better people? No, but it's a trap many people fall into. The problem is that our own boundaries are being ill-defined. We aren't saying right up front that "Come over tonight, lean on me." does not mean for a continuation of days and days and days -- so that we put that person's problems before the routine of our own lives. Then tomorrow when the person wants to talk again for 5 hours and it's inconvenient -- we feel guility for saying "no". And so we don't -- we let them talk (we think what a "good" friend we're being) and that sets up a pattern of feeling used. *We* the listener feel used. But it's not the fault of the person who is suffering. There is no fault period. They are suffering -- there is no wrong or right in that -- it just is.

You can increase their suffering by being a friend without properly defining your boundaries. By blaming them for where they are -- and the fact that they aren't recovering from their pain in the way any of us decides in our heads is "appropriate." After all -- where did any of us learn to begin with what's an appropriate amount of time to heal from something painful or traumatic? It's the stricture we've placed upon ourselves, the self-judgment we've learned -- which we are then projecting onto another person.

I think most "tough love" statements are about the person saying them -- they come out of their own irritation and frustration. It's not about helping someone else -- it's about our judgments. It's about the fact that we haven't established our own boudaries -- because we're caught in that continuum of behavior being "bad" or "good". I also often noticed (with others as much as within myself) that the trigger for the "tough love" speech is that sometimes it's our friend's pain or grief touching on something WE don't want to visit within ourselves. It reminds of us of what we're going through and denying on some level -- or it's just something that scares us because of our past experiences.

I've had a friend who had a tough love speech given to him which he then turned on me at a similar tremendously painful juncture. He said something to the extent that when he was feeling morose and deeply depressed for an extended period of time -- friends of his finally told him he was a drag to be around and basically "get over yourself" He said it was hard to hear but it helped him. He brought up this story because he was handing it to me when I was in a bad way.

That's NOT helpful, constructive or supportive advice. It's ALL about judgment. He's still deeply depressed -- he just hides it now. And you know what? It makes his depression worse because he's judging himself for feeling his feelings. He told me this story because it was also his way of saying -- I can't be your friend, my boudaries are too thin. Except -- he said it out of anger and fear. It's scary to be depressed or deeply sad yourself and trying to run away from it -- and then have one of your close friends turn to you for support in for a situation that raises the things you're trying to bury.

In my situation -- I told him flat out -- your problem with me -- is YOUR problem. Don't judge me because I'm in pain. I'm working at accepting myself -- no matter HOW I am, or how I feel. If it's difficult to remain in our friendship -- we can either change the boundaries -- or end the friendship. But I restated to him that who I am, is who I am -- and what I'm going through right now, is where I'm at. To be my close friend -- you have to love me even while *whatever* I'm going through -- just happens to be what I'm going through. Although that *doesn't* mean you have to always listen to me 24/7 either. But then -- you HAVE to define and decide what your boundaries are -- that's not my job.

But accepting me unconditionally -- that IS what friendship and love is about.

And none of my response to him was my "tough love" statement to him. It was anger and it was asserting my belief in myself. I wasn't saying any of it under the guise of trying to teach him something. After all -- who am I, or who are any of us for that matter, to teach a friend how to be?

So, I'm not perfect obviously, lol -- this is something I work towards in my relationships. And when I err -- I try to recognize my mistakes -- and apologize for projecting my issues onto someone else, *particularly* someone in pain who's coming to me in a vulnerable state simply looking for acceptance.

So I think that the way to truly support someone -- show them acceptance and love -- is to be straight with yourself about what you can and cannot handle or give. And to remember not to push your standards onto someone else, particularly someone whose love and friendship matters to you -- still. To apply to anyone else the judgments you make about yourself and your own feelings -- that's not support or acceptance. Better if you can't control that side of yourself -- to not offer the support to begin with.

And ultimately -- we are ALL responsible for the pain and joy we feel in life. We are all responsible for how we live our lives.

 

[TheTITAN]

You have to be tough, but understanding, if that is possible. If someone is not doing the right thing, let them know. You do, however, have to be there for them when they need you. If they come to you for help, no matter how you handle it, you have to be there and stand by their side.

Just an opinion