Gay/bi lifestyles, stereotypes and other ways of being gay

[double_X]

Hey folks, this is my first proper thread and Im very curious (nope not in that sense..) about what gay/bi peeps think about the currect gay scene. Im bi and feel particularly isolated from the 'scene' as most gay men I know are of the camp variety and I'm straight 'acting' or so I've been told. I dont like the clubs, more specifically the music, dont dress outrageously and the fluffiness of the hi-campness leaves a bad taste in my mouth (excuse the pun).
I dont mean to offend, I believe everyone to their own but I find the two dimensionalness of it all (in the UK at least) very depressing.

So, people whats your feelings on the matter? Is i just me not digging deep enough or are their many others out there who share my view.


NB this thread was inspired by excellent docu on BBC3 this evening called the trouble with gay men.

 

[Mari J]

Notice that they didn't have a segment called The Trouble With Straight Men. The media never question the validity of straight lifestyles, whatever they may be. It sounds to me like you have internalized this one-sided critique that is a two-dimensional stereotype in itself. Go ahead and look deeper on your own--it lookes like TV isn't going to help you do it.

 

[ezervet]

hey

Mari J, lay off the guy. just because he's not into the gay scene doesn't mean he's internalized heterosexual prejudices or anything. he might just not like the same things they like. SHOCKING, i know.

double_x, i know exactly what you mean. I'm a bi male too. i have no problem with the more mainstream gay men, in fact, one on one theyre very nice people who i can really get along with. but their tastes in just about everything else run very contrary to mine. That makes it hard for me to really meet gay people i can really spend time with socially. and that in turn makes me feel like i can't really get into the "gay scene." but at the same time, i would like to spend more time with people who are gay or bi too, after all, there are things i can't talk about with my straight friends, no matter how tolerant or open they are.

And god, i hate being called straight acting. I'd be offended, but i'm not self-righteous enough about my sexuality to take it that seriously.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Hmm..I've been told by everyone I have shared my being bi so far that they couldn't ever imagine such a thing. Being straight-acting isn't something special. If you aren't feminine you are straightacting/looking. I never thought of it as a bad thing. I also dont hate gays who are feminine. But there are definately occasions when they get on my nerves. I don't mind dealing with naturally feminine men, but being more feminine that most women is too much for me.
For example in one of my classes a super-gay guy walks in.
He looks around with one finger on his mouth and his other hand(with a pink bandana tied on it) on his waist. He gets desperate and lets out a scream/moan/weird sigh and runs like a little deer that just found it's ability to jump,towards the one and only remaining chair in the back of the class.
Everyone at class starts laughing and me too.
Or the other day he asked one of his gay friends loudly how a dildo was used.
and that he asked his mom(!!!?!!!?!) the same thing.(omg this is too much..)
Call me sexist, call me problematic, whatever you want. But when the time comes and I tell one of my classmates I like men I don't want him to even get near the thought of that guy..

Dunno..maybe if they didn't draw so much attention I wouldn't have this kind of thinking.(by they I mean ultra-super-fem-gays)..

 

[ezervet]

Hmm..I've been told by everyone I have shared my being bi so far that they couldn't ever imagine such a thing. Being straight-acting isn't something special. If you aren't feminine you are straightacting/looking. I never thought of it as a bad thing.

Well, i don't mind labeling myself as such, actually. But when a gay person tells me that i'm "straight acting" or that since i'm bi i'm basically "half-straight," its kind of offensive to me in that it seems as thought they're trying to reduce my identity to just a midway point between gay or straight, or that i'm somehow only pretending to be how i am, and that if i were really comfortable with my sexuality i'd be more like them.

I think its just difficult for some guys to carve out a niche for themselves that is independent of being "more gay" or "more straight." I'm not just a gay guy who also likes women, or a straight guy that also likes men. I'm a bisexual man.

Of course, its always good to look in the mirror and tell yourself to stop being so serious. ("hey, you like dick, and thats pretty damn gay.")

 

[John Doe]

Notice that they didn't have a segment called The Trouble With Straight Men. The media never question the validity of straight lifestyles, whatever they may be. It sounds to me like you have internalized this one-sided critique that is a two-dimensional stereotype in itself. Go ahead and look deeper on your own--it lookes like TV isn't going to help you do it.

Bullshit. The media contstantly questions straight "lifestyles", or at least straight male.

But your comparison is specious anyway, because there's a big difference. The put-on feel that the author of the thread refered to is largely absent in straights. Many gays feel they somehow have to wear an identitiy all the time.

 

[double_X]

Notice that they didn't have a segment called The Trouble With Straight Men. The media never question the validity of straight lifestyles, whatever they may be. It sounds to me like you have internalized this one-sided critique that is a two-dimensional stereotype in itself. Go ahead and look deeper on your own--it lookes like TV isn't going to help you do it.

I understand your point of view and I dont have a problem with 'gay' lifestyle but I feel that many gay men embrace the traditional 'scene' as it is little else on offer, where I come from at least. People are too focused on labels and all I'm really trying to say I guess is people should just 'be' themselves and spend less time trying to pigeon-hole their identity to fit what is expected of them.

 

[double_X]

Well, i don't mind labeling myself as such, actually. But when a gay person tells me that i'm "straight acting" or that since i'm bi i'm basically "half-straight," its kind of offensive to me in that it seems as thought they're trying to reduce my identity to just a midway point between gay or straight, or that i'm somehow only pretending to be how i am, and that if i were really comfortable with my sexuality i'd be more like them.

I think its just difficult for some guys to carve out a niche for themselves that is independent of being "more gay" or "more straight." I'm not just a gay guy who also likes women, or a straight guy that also likes men. I'm a bisexual man.

Of course, its always good to look in the mirror and tell yourself to stop being so serious. ("hey, you like dick, and thats pretty damn gay.")

Thanks for your reply ezervet. Very well put, I believe that people are more than just the two dimensions. I dont want to be known as 'that bi guy' or 'that gay guy', I like to believe I have many facets to my personality and my choice of sexual partners should not be an issue in defining myself.

 

[Queersetti]

I understand your point of view and I dont have a problem with 'gay' lifestyle but I feel that many gay men embrace the traditional 'scene' as it is little else on offer, where I come from at least. People are too focused on labels and all I'm really trying to say I guess is people should just 'be' themselves and spend less time trying to pigeon-hole their identity to fit what is expected of them.

But for many of those men, it is not a pose, it actually is who they are. Stereotypes are based on a kernel of truth.

 

[John Doe]

But for many of those men, it is not a pose, it actually is who they are. Stereotypes are based on a kernel of truth.

If anyone is really that flamboyant or macho or anti-social or bitchy deep down, then they've got problems.

 

[Harrowborg]

Hey folks, this is my first proper thread and Im very curious (nope not in that sense..) about what gay/bi peeps think about the currect gay scene. Im bi and feel particularly isolated from the 'scene' as most gay men I know are of the camp variety and I'm straight 'acting' or so I've been told. I dont like the clubs, more specifically the music, dont dress outrageously and the fluffiness of the hi-campness leaves a bad taste in my mouth (excuse the pun).
I dont mean to offend, I believe everyone to their own but I find the two dimensionalness of it all (in the UK at least) very depressing.

So, people whats your feelings on the matter? Is i just me not digging deep enough or are their many others out there who share my view.


NB this thread was inspired by excellent docu on BBC3 this evening called the trouble with gay men.

The ignorant people in society will view you as 'straight' when your seeing a girl or 'gay' when your seeing a guy, it sucks but thats the way it is. How you act is totally up to you. I know when I was seeing a guy before I met my gf, we didn't go around acting like queens, to most we probably just seemed like two mates except that we kissed occassionally. I tend to see those OTT camp people in the same way I see m/f couples who are all over each other in public, just seems like a desperate way to assert your sexuality (and make sure everyone knows it as well) A lot of guys on this thread seem to be bi or bi curious, myself included. Have fun, be yourself.

 

[Jayashiangel]

Be it gay, str8 or curious people will judge no matter what you are. Just be happy with who you are and what makes you happy and don't let others stress you out. My parents still judge me because I am a Fag Hag yet until my best friend killed himself they never understood that it was not just some phase I was going through. I enjoy being friends with gay and bi-sexual men they tend to be little bit more creative in my book. But I get judge just because I talk about gay people and people assume I am a lesbian just by my hair at times..go figure...

 

[double_X]

The ignorant people in society will view you as 'straight' when your seeing a girl or 'gay' when your seeing a guy, it sucks but thats the way it is. How you act is totally up to you. I know when I was seeing a guy before I met my gf, we didn't go around acting like queens, to most we probably just seemed like two mates except that we kissed occassionally. I tend to see those OTT camp people in the same way I see m/f couples who are all over each other in public, just seems like a desperate way to assert your sexuality (and make sure everyone knows it as well) A lot of guys on this thread seem to be bi or bi curious, myself included. Have fun, be yourself.

Your right, I dont need to make an ott statement to feel like I'm helping 'the cause' but if it works for some who am I to say anything..even if I believe it doesnt do the scene any favours.

 

[double_X]

Be it gay, str8 or curious people will judge no matter what you are. Just be happy with who you are and what makes you happy and don't let others stress you out. My parents still judge me because I am a Fag Hag yet until my best friend killed himself they never understood that it was not just some phase I was going through. I enjoy being friends with gay and bi-sexual men they tend to be little bit more creative in my book. But I get judge just because I talk about gay people and people assume I am a lesbian just by my hair at times..go figure...

Thanks for your words of wisdom. out of curiousity though do you feel like you judged because these people have in their heads the bitchy over te top sterotype that is presented by gay culture, particulary in the media? I believe youre in the states and I'm not sure how the scene is viewed, packaged, whatever, over there but in the UK we have people like a certain Mr Norton flying the flag for gay culture. Not a good thing, hes popular (for some reason) but doesnt offer anything new.

 

[Queersetti]

If anyone is really that flamboyant or macho or anti-social or bitchy deep down, then they've got problems.

Everybody's got problems. If someone deals with them by being swishy, who am I to judge them?

 

[double_X]

Everybody's got problems. If someone deals with them by being swishy, who am I to judge them?

I believe you. Some people deal with problems by being bitter, aggressive, reclusive etc and I guess flamboyancy is probably a fairly refreshing way of doing this. Many people are naturally very outgoing, entertaining, flamboyant. But I wish I knew how many guys out there feel pressured into adopting this persona by the culture that exists.
I'm tired of gay men who try too hard to be swishy and eventually lose the real them to a false identity that doesnt fit. Is it mainstream culture influencing mens behaviour and desire to fit in?
I know of one guy in my office like this He has a tendancy to get on co-workers (and my) nerves because of this. He could be such a cool guy if he chilled out and realised he didnt have to live up to peoples expectations of how a gay man should behave.

Well I seem to have had some feedback on this thread so far that indicate I'm not alone. Who knows, maybe the scene is alread fairly diverse and I'm not looking hard enough...
Infact I wanna start my own splinter scene whos with me?? everyones welcome especially us boring-bi's lol

 

[ezervet]

Well I seem to have had some feedback on this thread so far that indicate I'm not alone. Who knows, maybe the scene is alread fairly diverse and I'm not looking hard enough...
Infact I wanna start my own splinter scene whos with me?? everyones welcome especially us boring-bi's lol

Yeah, i'm fairly sure that there's plenty of guys out there like us, not into the gay scene, but not like repressed or anything. The problem is... its difficult to spot a guy who's gay or bi if he's not "gay acting." I'll admit i fall into that stereotype trap too.

As for your splinter scene, i'm with you on that one. Apparently, we could just replicate the scene we're already from, but sometimes talk about liking guys. (HA! i'm still thinking in terms of "gay" and "straight". Weak, eh?)

 

[double_X]

Yeah, i'm fairly sure that there's plenty of guys out there like us, not into the gay scene, but not like repressed or anything. The problem is... its difficult to spot a guy who's gay or bi if he's not "gay acting." I'll admit i fall into that stereotype trap too.

As for your splinter scene, i'm with you on that one. Apparently, we could just replicate the scene we're already from, but sometimes talk about liking guys. (HA! i'm still thinking in terms of "gay" and "straight". Weak, eh?)

Wow, i have a follower, a disciple if you will heehee. Thanks for support but how many people you think constitute your average scene..is there a clear definition between scene and small to medium gathering?

 

[ezervet]

oh its all mental, i think. We just declare the existence of a scene, and it exists. its an "if you build it, they will come" scenario i think. (a reference to Field of Dreams, if you've never seen it. i'll give you a pass because of your location )

now, we have a scene that spans over the atlantic. the international bi-gay-whatever-just-chilling-out scene. sounds good to me.

 

[double_X]

oh its all mental, i think. We just declare the existence of a scene, and it exists. its an "if you build it, they will come" scenario i think. (a reference to Field of Dreams, if you've never seen it. i'll give you a pass because of your location )

now, we have a scene that spans over the atlantic. the international bi-gay-whatever-just-chilling-out scene. sounds good to me.

I like your thinking matey! Thanks again for support, when do we get started?? lol

(also my knowledge of useless trivia regarding films knows no bounds! )

 

[ezervet]

I like your thinking matey! Thanks again for support, when do we get started?? lol

(also my knowledge of useless trivia regarding films knows no bounds! )

I think the idea is that we already are started. Deep, huh?

And, color me impressed on the Field of Dreams thing!