Gasp! It's the "I" word!!

thebullet

Rebel without applause
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Posts
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Yes, dear readers, a publication as mainstream as the Baltimore Sun is now moving toward recommending (speak it softly) IMPEACHMENT!!!


Damning Evidence Can't Be Ignored
By David Swanson and Jonathan Schwarz
The Baltimore Sun

Wednesday 15 June 2005

Since its publication May 1 by The Sunday Times of London, the so-called Downing Street memo has dominated the media in Britain and on the Internet in the United States. The memo is the official minutes from a secret meeting about Iraq held by British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his inner circle July 23, 2002.

The significance of the memo - and additional leaked British documents now surfacing in public view - can hardly be overstated. They conceivably could lead to impeachment proceedings against President Bush.

The Bush administration consistently has made two claims regarding its decision to invade Iraq:
Mr. Bush chose war only as a last resort.

Mr. Bush dealt honestly with intelligence about weapons of mass destruction and alleged Iraqi ties to al-Qaida.

The Downing Street memo contradicts these claims.

Here are some of the key words in the memo, written three months before Mr. Bush received congressional authorization for war, four months before U.N. Resolution 1441 held Iraq in "material breach" of disarmament obligations and eight months before the invasion in March 2003:
"[British intelligence chief Richard Dearlove] reported on his recent talks in Washington. ... Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam [Hussein], through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. ... It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran."

Other internal British memos from March 2002 and July 2002 reveal British officials discussing Mr. Blair's agreement with Mr. Bush to support an invasion of Iraq and Mr. Blair's insistence that Mr. Bush make a public show of going to the United Nations in order to - as the British ambassador to Washington, Christopher Meyer, put it - "wrongfoot Saddam on inspectors" to create a pretext for war.

The British privately scoffed at the frightening claims made by the Bush administration. In a memo to Foreign Secretary Jack Straw in March 2002, Peter
Ricketts, the political director of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, said: "US scrambling to establish a link" between Iraq and al-Qaida "is so far frankly unconvincing."

Anyone who follows the news will not be surprised. A long list of histleblowers, including former Treasury Secretary Paul H. O'Neill and former National Security Council official Richard Clarke, have reported that the Bush administration was obsessed with regime change in Iraq from Day One and regarded 9/11 as an opportunity to put its plans into action. Removing Mr. Hussein was in the 2000 Republican Party platform. Bush administration misuse of intelligence has been well documented.

But the Downing Street minutes and other recently leaked documents illustrate that the intelligence was wrong by design. The documents show officials at the apex of the government of our closest ally confirming among themselves what were the darkest suspicions about the Iraq war among ordinary Americans.

The evidence suggests that Mr. Bush has lied to Congress and to the American people about the justifications for war. It includes a formal letter and report that he submitted to Congress within 48 hours of launching the invasion in which he explained the need for the war in terms that appear to have been intentionally falsified, not mistaken.

Lying to Congress is a felony. Either lying to Congress about the need to go to war is a high crime, or nothing is.

AfterDowningStreet.org, a coalition of veterans groups, peace groups and other activist organizations, is urging Congress to introduce a Resolution of Inquiry that would require the House Judiciary Committee to hold formal investigations with the power of subpoena. The result would be a determinationas to whether the president has committed impeachable offenses.

Democratic Rep. Maurice D. Hinchey of New York, a member of the House Appropriations Committee, said Monday, "I think a Resolution of Inquiry is completely appropriate at this stage. It's something that should be done."

Rep. John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, has not expressed support for a Resolution of Inquiry. But he has asked Mr. Bush in a letter to respond to questions raised by the Downing Street memo. At least 90 members of Congress and about 500,000 U.S. citizens have signed the letter. Mr. Conyers plans to deliver it to the White House tomorrow.

He also plans to hold hearings about the memo tomorrow and participate in a rally in front of the White House.

-----------

David Swanson is co-founder of
AfterDowningStreet.org, and Jonathan Schwarz is a
consultant for the group.
 
While you are dreaming, I suggest goin for a pony. You have a better chance of gtting that one.
 
Sorry bullet. It's not going to happen.

With a GOP majority in both Houses, there's no chance of impeachment.

Besides most everyone involved knew it was a lie and didn't care. Why should they start caring now?
 
Bullet: We've tried it already. Teflon Tony lied to Parliament. Everyone knows he had. But he got to organise the inquiry and pick the judge. Suddenly the driven snow is almost as pure as Tony Blair.

It won't stick.

The Earl
 
Indeed. I wonder what, short of a violent crime, could actually get a president impeached these days?

Oh, Ms. Broaddick. Never mind, scratch the "short of a violent crime" clause. Is there anything?

Shanglan
 
BlackShanglan said:
Indeed. I wonder what, short of a violent crime, could actually get a president impeached these days?

Oh, Ms. Broaddick. Never mind, scratch the "short of a violent crime" clause. Is there anything?

Shanglan

He could come out of the closet.
 
I'm certainly aware that under the present Congress, impeachment is a pipedream. However, I'm more interested in the snowball effect that will occur in public opinion. Eventually those cozy little soccer moms and down-home conservative accountants that have helped elect GW to his improbable terms will realize the guy is selling snake oil.

I'm more concerned about the 2006 Congressional election and the 2008 Presidential election. If enough people actually pay attention to what is going on, it will become increasingly more difficult for the Republicans to steal the midterm and presidential elections.

When will people realize that the neo-Cons are the devil incarnate? Hopefully more and more articles like the one in the Balitmore Sun will sound the alert.

Who knows, maybe the press will grow a set of balls. Unlikely, I know.
 
In the first place, no Republican Senator or Rep, who holds any further political aspirations will vote for an impeachment proceeding, much less vote Bush guilty of any infraction. Anyone who did so would be denied the extensive support and coffers of the RNC in any further political campaign.

In the second place, no senator or represenative in his right mind is going to call for impeachment based on FOERIGN documents. Considering the Xenophobia prevalent now, that's only slightly less suicidal than playing russian rulete with an automatic.

Finally, there is no general outcry of the public that would be sufficicent to convince any member of the GOP he stood a ghost of a chance of increasing his constituency in his home district by supporting it.
 
thebullet said:
I'm certainly aware that under the present Congress, impeachment is a pipedream. However, I'm more interested in the snowball effect that will occur in public opinion. Eventually those cozy little soccer moms and down-home conservative accountants that have helped elect GW to his improbable terms will realize the guy is selling snake oil.

I'm more concerned about the 2006 Congressional election and the 2008 Presidential election. If enough people actually pay attention to what is going on, it will become increasingly more difficult for the Republicans to steal the midterm and presidential elections.

When will people realize that the neo-Cons are the devil incarnate? Hopefully more and more articles like the one in the Balitmore Sun will sound the alert.

Who knows, maybe the press will grow a set of balls. Unlikely, I know.

Sadly, the soccer moms and conservative accountants aren't going to pay attention to the negative press about GW. It's very easy to dismiss negative press as propaganda by libs, even if the negative press is, in fact, the truth.

SJ
 
No one gives a rat's ass about Iraq anymore. They're just about down to civil war over there and the news doesn't even report it.

No one cares. Case closed.
 
Re: conservatives' perceptions of Bush :

I'll throw in a word for the "lesser of two evils" approach. That is, I personally assume that pretty much all of our politicians are greedy, corrupt, lying, self-serving, poll-watching, influence-peddling thieves. Thus, I'm left trying to figure out which will do the least damage, and I imagine that there are others in my position. A vote for Bush doesn't always mean "I think GWB is great"; it may just mean "Hold your nose and pick someone" has been the method of voting.

Shanglan
 
dr_mabeuse said:
No one gives a rat's ass about Iraq anymore. They're just about down to civil war over there and the news doesn't even report it.

Are we watching the same news?
 
Dr. M:
You are correct, the people don't care about Iraq. Which is why 1,700 American dead is an abomination. Our esteemed president lied his way into his own little war which has cost a couple of hundred billion dollars as well as all of those lives.

I know that no one cares about the 100,000 or so Iraqi dead (whatever the number is). But if the press actually start upping the ante on the reporting of casualties; and of course reporting the general cluster fuck that is American Iraqi policy - then maybe the general electorate will start to care.

Shanglan:
Please don't tell me that you still support this guy. Don't you get it? He IS NOT a conservative. He is a neo-Con puppet. Check out another thread I started today. The movement is starting to allow Bush to run for election again. If it happens, kiss democracy goodbye.
 
thebullet said:
Dr. M:
You are correct, the people don't care about Iraq. Which is why 1,700 American dead is an abomination. Our esteemed president lied his way into his own little war which has cost a couple of hundred billion dollars as well as all of those lives.

I know that no one cares about the 100,000 or so Iraqi dead (whatever the number is). But if the press actually start upping the ante on the reporting of casualties; and of course reporting the general cluster fuck that is American Iraqi policy - then maybe the general electorate will start to care.

Shanglan:
Please don't tell me that you still support this guy. Don't you get it? He IS NOT a conservative. He is a neo-Con puppet. Check out another thread I started today. The movement is starting to allow Bush to run for election again. If it happens, kiss democracy goodbye.

Shang, like myself, often points out facts that don't neccessarily have anything to do with his own opinion. I've pointed out several times that lumping all Bush voters together into a category of ignorant rednecks ignroes the fact they were offered a fairly shitty alternative in John Kerry.

Portraying them as monolithic and fully behind the man they elected is stupidly naive. Offered a decent alternative, some, perhaps many, would have held their nose and voted for the alternative.
 
thebullet said:
I'm more concerned about the 2006 Congressional election and the 2008 Presidential election. If enough people actually pay attention to what is going on, it will become increasingly more difficult for the Republicans to steal the midterm and presidential elections.
The house is always harder to predict as the entire house is up every two years, but the Republicans are reasonably safe in the 2006 Senate election based on who is retiring and vulnerable.
The Dems are vulnerable in FL and MI, and have open seats in MN, MD. The Dems best chances for gains are in MT, MS, and especially PA against Rick Santorum (do a search for "Santorum" in google). Frist's open seat in TN looks fairly safe for the Republicans.
My personal feeling is you're not going to see a shift of more than 1 seat in either direction. But it is still a little early to tell.
Midterm elections are usually bad for the party in power, but in this case I'm not predicting any major shifts. Dems will pick up a couple seats in the House, and I'll hedge my bets and predict the balance of power in the Senate won't change.
 
Colly, thank you for understanding my position and writing my reply so neatly. That is indeed the point - that people voting for Bush don't necessarily "support" him, any more than Michael Moore "supported" Kerry in his speech in which he acknowledged that Kerry was a bad candidate, but urged people to vote for him because he was the only thing on the Democratic ticket. I think that there was plenty of that going on in both camps during the last election.

Shanglan
 
JamesSD said:
The house is always harder to predict as the entire house is up every two years, but the Republicans are reasonably safe in the 2006 Senate election based on who is retiring and vulnerable.
The Dems are vulnerable in FL and MI, and have open seats in MN, MD. The Dems best chances for gains are in MT, MS, and especially PA against Rick Santorum (do a search for "Santorum" in google). Frist's open seat in TN looks fairly safe for the Republicans.
My personal feeling is you're not going to see a shift of more than 1 seat in either direction. But it is still a little early to tell.
Midterm elections are usually bad for the party in power, but in this case I'm not predicting any major shifts. Dems will pick up a couple seats in the House, and I'll hedge my bets and predict the balance of power in the Senate won't change.


Not sure who is up in MS, but I can tell you the odds of Either Lott or Cochrane loosing are slim.

Thad is well loved and his seat on the Ag comittee has virtually locked up Rural support. He just does too much for the state a junior Senator couldn't do.

Lott, for his mistakes is still the Republican nominee. In a state wehre 88% of the population voted in a defense of Marriage amendment, it sems unlikely any Dem could mount much of a challenge.
 
Remember when the Lewinski thing hit the nightly news at almost the same time the movie Wag the Dog came out? (like one year into his 2nd term.)

Talking with a friend about it at the time I said, "Finally here's something they can't sweep under the carpet, and Clinton's going down." My friend smiled and shook his head and said, "He's not leaving, this won't do it."

I offered to bet him; he said "How 'bout 20 bucks?"

I said, "Make it $100. Clinton will not serve out his term: he will resign or be removed." And he shook my hand faster than you can say, "sucker."

Well, I had 3 years to wait to see if I'd win, but soon I saw the writing on the wall, and the when I saw my friend a month later, I simply shook my head and handed him the 100 bucks.

Remember Clinton was impeached, but that didn't mean anything. I don't think anyone here will live to see a President of the U.S. forced from office again. If anything, the U.S. will cease to exist before that happens. (If you don't think it has already.)
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Not sure who is up in MS, but I can tell you the odds of Either Lott or Cochrane loosing are slim..
Doh! I screwed up my state abbriviations! How embarrassing!
I meant MO, for Missouri, not MS.
Sorry bout that.
 
You've gotta hand it to bullet, he's passionate. His passion has made him lose touch with reality concerning politics, but the passion is undeniable. Bullet also suffers from a problem that infests the Democratic party right now. They can bitch their ass off about anything concerning Bush, but they can't offer an alternative thought or idea. There's no answers or solutions sought. Just bitching.

Bullet, let me help you out. I'm an independent. I don't claim a political party. I voted for Bush this past election. I didn't really want to, but he was the lesser of the evils. If you REALLY want the Repubs out of the whitehouse, find a decent candidate. The rest of the country is really getting tired of the Dems throwing ultra libs into the ring. Dukakis, Mondale, and most recently Kerry. It appears that the Dems haven't learned this lesson yet.

The names floating around for 2008 include Hillary, Gore, Kerry. Nope, the Dems haven't learned their lesson yet. If the Dem party continues on the path it's on, expect a Repub sweep in 06 and 08.
 
Wildcard, you regard Kerry as ultra-liberal? :confused:

Who would you regard as merely liberal then?

Compared to many Canadian politicians, and European, Kerry would be considered a mushy conservative. A Red Tory to use Canadian terms, a Wet to use British.
 
Wildcard Ky said:
The names floating around for 2008 include Hillary, Gore, Kerry. Nope, the Dems haven't learned their lesson yet. If the Dem party continues on the path it's on, expect a Repub sweep in 06 and 08.
I'm surprised you think Kerry is an ultraliberal. It was lack of charisma and not politics that really cost Kerry, and especially Gore. As much as I disagree with his policy, even I can admit that Bush, as a person, seems "likable".

You're listing names thrown around by the media largely on name recognition. Losers almost never win a nomination after they've had their shot. Hillary might make a run in 2008.

Sen. John Edwards likely will run again in 2008. Sen. Evan Bayh, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, Virgina Gov. Mark Warner and many others could take a shot. On paper I like Richardson since he's a moderate Governor of Latino descent.

My point is we probably don't even know much about the person who will end up on the Democratic side of the ticket yet (Unless it happens to be Edwards).
 
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