For JM and other non-believers

[Keroin]

If you think cats can't be trained...

http://www.flixxy.com/kaiser-the-amazing-bengal-amazing-cat-tricks.htm

 

[Sir_Winston54]

If you think cats can't be trained...

http://www.flixxy.com/kaiser-the-amazing-bengal-amazing-cat-tricks.htm

I think Kaiser got the brains that our cats were deprived of...

 

[midwestyankee]

Is there a category for apathetic atheist?

 

[Keroin]

I think Kaiser got the brains that our cats were deprived of...

I'm sure they make up for it with cuteness?

Is there a category for apathetic atheist?

Ha! May the cat gods have mercy upon your soul. And your furniture.

 

[Etoile]

I love this so much!

 

[Keroin]

I love this so much!

I've worked with some pretty amazing cats but I think this one takes the cake.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

This is so fascinating. It seems almost magical that this sort of thing is possible between species and yet I also always struggle with the reality of what animal training is.

Somehow this clip is completely endearing, and yet also painful to watch as most training is at it's core reliant on a sort of exploitation of instincts to things like... Food, shelter, comfort and "tribe".

I know with my own pup I often stare at him and wonder the line between his compliance and his actual preferred choice when I am the hand that feeds him. When is the domestication of an animal actually kind of cruel? Where is the line between corporate machines such as Sea World and actually being adoring human animal companions?

Please know I do not mean to vilify anyone here. It is just something I have always struggled with as I have always had a deep respect for nature and have always had pets of all sorts.

The more I think about it, these things are just more and more in conflict in a way I can't seem to resolve.

 

[Netzach]

It's an interesting response. I kind of feel you in some ways.


I've watched a LOT of cat vids on youtube and I've noticed something - I relate to some of the ones I see from Asia really well, because in Asia cat owners seem on the whole, more comfortable with the silent enjoyment of pets - with the space in between interaction when you're watching your animal be an animal.

Westerners, especially Americans, seen compelled to fill every second of their concepts of "me and my pet" with interaction and comment and talking.

I have so much enjoyment just watching this guy do what he wants to do, which is, as you know, sleep mainly, with bouts of play, and food. That's his job.

However, the process that created your cat and its brain has frozen it into a lifelong kitten stage, a kind of arrested development.

This rocks for your cat's survival. They hung out exploiting our enjoyment of things with big eyes and cute antics, while controlling vermin explosions and getting table scraps and some protection from their predators. It wasn't like dog breeding, the animal showed up pretty much genetically "as is" versus taking a wolf and making it a min pin - but we've been breeding since for traits.

I honestly think that a cat which is by individual nature inquisitive, puppylike, and social, is enriched and kept from being bored by being played with. Training is just a more organized game. This actually may keep him occupied with things that aren't destructive.

 

[seela]

Yeah, Bengal cats are scary smart and need a ton of activity to keep them from ripping your couch into pieces.

My uncle had one, and his cat responded really well to training. She opened and closed doors on command, did some agility thing with tubes to crawl through and obstacles to jump over, walked beautifully on leash, fetched balls and other stuff thrown at her etc. She was the most dog-like cat I've ever met, and based on what I've read and heard from other people with Bengal cats, she wasn't particularly exceptional for a Bengal.

If she wasn't played with enough, she'd go nuts and make her own fun by climbing the curtains, chewing and clawing the couch, dropping stuff from shelves and so on. My uncle used to take her out almost every day for a walk, on leash, even in dead winter. In winter the walks were shorter, but she still loved them and was ever so interested in snow. She was very social and hated being alone. She always moved from one room to another so that she was in the same space as people, even if she was only sleeping.

I'm just glad I've managed to train ours from staying away from kitchen counters, table and bed. That's enough training for our needs. I've always thought that I'd like to own a Bengal cat one day, but I'm not sure I can have a pet that's so high maintenance. Ours now is very low maintenance and easily entertained (daily routine: sleep, eat, stare at her own image in a mirror for about 2 hours a day, although staring at her own shadow is a good substitute for a mirror too, a couple of spurts and more sleep). At this point in life low maintenance is good, because it means that we can leave her home alone when we go for a vacation as long as somebody comes over to feed her.

 

[JMohegan]

If you think cats can't be trained...

http://www.flixxy.com/kaiser-the-amazing-bengal-amazing-cat-tricks.htm

Love the border collie at the end!

I've never trained a pet to do tricks like that (unless you count running to catch a ball or a frisbee, which of course I've done).

Balls and frisbees aside, I've always trained dogs with the sole goal of helping him/her live as free as possible in a suburban environment - without getting run over or lost, and without terrorizing other people or local wildlife.

This is so fascinating. It seems almost magical that this sort of thing is possible between species and yet I also always struggle with the reality of what animal training is.

Somehow this clip is completely endearing, and yet also painful to watch as most training is at it's core reliant on a sort of exploitation of instincts to things like... Food, shelter, comfort and "tribe".

I know with my own pup I often stare at him and wonder the line between his compliance and his actual preferred choice when I am the hand that feeds him. When is the domestication of an animal actually kind of cruel? Where is the line between corporate machines such as Sea World and actually being adoring human animal companions?

Please know I do not mean to vilify anyone here. It is just something I have always struggled with as I have always had a deep respect for nature and have always had pets of all sorts.

The more I think about it, these things are just more and more in conflict in a way I can't seem to resolve.

I think you're asking really good questions. Ones that all pet owners should be asking themselves.

I can't give an opinion on best practices for pet cats, but I do have rather firm opinions on best practices for dogs. One thing to keep in mind is that dogs are, fundamentally, pack animals. Pack = alpha + everybody else.

If your dog perceives you as The One in Charge, consistently, I'd say that's actually a very good thing for your dog's comfort and well-being (as long as the dog gets plenty of exercise, affection, etc.). A confused dog is not a happy dog, and a "spoiled" dog can be downright miserable. A dog who thinks he's in charge of the humans is just plain dangerous.

 

[Etoile]

My cat is currently sitting on my lap. She settled there without prompting from me, and we are pretty much ignoring each other. (I'm typing on my phone, she's just relaxing.) I'm enjoying this arrangement immensely.

In this situation, she's very much the boss. That's not to say I don't pick her up and demand attention from her sometimes, just as she tromps on my face at 6am sometimes. But right now, she has settled on me, I'm ignoring her, and I am loving it. I don't need any more than this. Just knowing she is there makes me happy.

Sorry, that got off topic. Just had to share my kitty love.

 

[FurryFury]

This is how me and my lap cat are. It's the best, IMO!

My cat is currently sitting on my lap. She settled there without prompting from me, and we are pretty much ignoring each other. (I'm typing on my phone, she's just relaxing.) I'm enjoying this arrangement immensely.

In this situation, she's very much the boss. That's not to say I don't pick her up and demand attention from her sometimes, just as she tromps on my face at 6am sometimes. But right now, she has settled on me, I'm ignoring her, and I am loving it. I don't need any more than this. Just knowing she is there makes me happy.

Sorry, that got off topic. Just had to share my kitty love.

 

[Keroin]

This is so fascinating. It seems almost magical that this sort of thing is possible between species and yet I also always struggle with the reality of what animal training is.

Somehow this clip is completely endearing, and yet also painful to watch as most training is at it's core reliant on a sort of exploitation of instincts to things like... Food, shelter, comfort and "tribe".

I know with my own pup I often stare at him and wonder the line between his compliance and his actual preferred choice when I am the hand that feeds him. When is the domestication of an animal actually kind of cruel? Where is the line between corporate machines such as Sea World and actually being adoring human animal companions?

Please know I do not mean to vilify anyone here. It is just something I have always struggled with as I have always had a deep respect for nature and have always had pets of all sorts.

The more I think about it, these things are just more and more in conflict in a way I can't seem to resolve.

Good questions, CC. I think it's good to first make the distinction between domestic animal and wild. Cats and dogs made the choice to associate with humans. In the beginning, it was very much symbiotic. Now, we humans have spun that off in a thousand directions, not all of which I support or agree with. (I would never own a Bengal, BTW, they are closer to wild than domestic than most people realize or admit).

When it comes to training, some pets thrive on it and, as JM said, are miserable or dangerous without it. Border collies, for example, NEED activity. They need jobs and challenges. And then, regardless of breed, some individual pets have a greater need for activities and tasks than others. I've worked with enough animals that I can say this with complete confidence.

Let me stress here, I'm referring to domesticated pets - cats and dogs, specifically.

As for my own cats, I give them basic training--no jumping on counters, no scratching furniture, no biting, holding still for nail trimming and such. It makes for a more pleasant existence for everyone. No different than giving a child the kind of manners and skills they'll need to function in society.