Fluff: When is it excessive?

[OutsideObserver]

In my first post to this forum, I stated that I felt one indicator of the decline of this forum was the amount of fluff that was being posted. By fluff, I mean topics and ideas that are irrelavant to BDSM. This includes chit-chat, flirting, joking around, etc.

I will more than agree with the statement that some fluff is necessary because it allows us to interact as human beings. BDSM has enough mystery about it, making this a cold-hearted-stay-on-topic-only type forum would make it that much harder to discuss. So please do not drag that argument out. My argument is that excessive fluff is a forum killer. It annoys people. It drives them off. And in some cases disgusted them.

One clear example I can give right now is the recent (a few nights ago) display we were all forced to watch from P. B. Walker and Freya2. I could almost see the eyerolls and hear the "gimme a break"s from everyone here, not to mention the sentiments of "I wish they would take it to PM", or "Christ, just fuck already". That entire night, almost no, if any, posts about BDSM were made. It was all them. This is not the only example. It was the most recent.

Discuss.

~=(O)--(O)=~

 

[P. B. Walker]

One clear example I can give right now is the recent (a few nights ago) display we were all forced to watch from P. B. Walker and Freya2. I could almost see the eyerolls and hear the "gimme a break"s from everyone here, not to mention the sentiments of "I wish they would take it to PM", or "Christ, just fuck already". That entire night, almost no, if any, posts about BDSM were made. It was all them. This is not the only example. It was the most recent.

Discuss.

~=(O)--(O)=~

That's a huge exaggeration. There's no way we were the only one's posting, fuckwit.

PBW "Trust me, I wanted to just go fuck!!" LOL

 

[Freya]

We did get a bit out of hand that night, and I apologized for it the next day.

but I'm pretty sure that most, if not all of the posters here have enough backbone to have told one or both of us to shut up already if they truly were rolling their eyes and thinking those things. You just like to dig shit about anything and everything don't you?

 

[WriterDom]

Let's Discuss why you post under a troll name. What do you have to hide?

 

[Lancecastor]

I think that as long as Lit still has "New Threads" in stock and as long as there are other threads to go to, people should feel free to start or post to threads that meet their needs.

The VBulliten.com software Lit uses enables you to see threads in various orders, but the default position is "most posts most recently", so the most quickly populated threads rise to the top of your front page most often. (see the VB web site for details, user manuals, etc)

Some people only ever post to threads they have Subscribed to.

Some people only lurk and almost never post.

Some people only post to "popular" threads.

Some people post only on dog-fucking.

So many possibilities!

I suggest to you that what is going on in any given thread at any given time ought never to reach the "oh get a room" level for you.

You can always look elsewhere or create your own thread.

Or, if you don't like what you're seeing, put the people on Ignore for the night and stay in the thread.

With all those permutations and combinations of alternatives, I see no merit in being "Ewwww" about any one situation, from fluffy to blood-soaked.

Now.....if you were really just seeking to "comment" on "observations" about Freya & PB k-i-s-s-i-n-g in a tree...well, I saw them kissing too and it was yukkkky!

Ewwww!

Lance

 

[P. B. Walker]

We did get a bit out of hand that night, and I apologized for it the next day.

but I'm pretty sure that most, if not all of the posters here have enough backbone to have told one or both of us to shut up already if they truly were rolling their eyes and thinking those things. You just like to dig shit about anything and everything don't you?

Yeah... knowing this group... they wouldn't hesitate to say what they think... lol. I am actually surprised we didn't get slammed LOL...

PBW "I know one person I'd like to get slammed by" lol

 

[UCE]

We did get a bit out of hand that night, and I apologized for it the next day.

but I'm pretty sure that most, if not all of the posters here have enough backbone to have told one or both of us to shut up already if they truly were rolling their eyes and thinking those things. You just like to dig shit about anything and everything don't you?

I think I made a joke about it--or I made a joke about PBW and somebody flirting away recently. I don't mind this kind of thing or any version of fluff. If I'm in the mood to read it, it's nice to have it there. If I'm not in the mood, I ignore it. If you are talking about the same conversation I am, it wasn't just you and PBW. A bondagebunni was also vouyeristically and enthusicastically commenting and so it looked a little like a menage a troi, or that she was the photographer directing you two, lol.

Unda

 

[Freya]

So oo - care to attempt another troll post then? Looks like this one went a bit flat on you.

Note: before making unsubstantiated claims, try and get verification first. I didn't think anyone was offended that night, because if they had been I'm sure they would have told us. I don't know many of them well, but from what I've seen nobody here is shy about speaking their minds.

Thanks UCE - I'm glad we didn't offend or bother you that night.


oo - no worries, we have since taken our conversations to PM, flirty and otherwise. So you can unroll those eyes of yours now.

 

[SexyChele]

Is this the only thing you can come up with this evening, OO? I'm a little disappointed.

I remember the night in question - I made a post in the middle of the exchange that was completely ignored. Oh well. Life goes on. Besides, if some one truly doesn't want to "watch" the exchange, just put the thread originator on "ignore" for the evening and guess what? The thread pops right off your screen and is no longer an irritant to you. Problem solved! What do you know about that?

Oh, but of course, you would have to remember to "un-ignore" the thread originator later, or you might miss their posts in the future!

Surely, there is some other issue worth discussing than this?

 

[Pure]

OK, OO, the pot is stirred;

The new question,
Fluff: When is it excessive?

is again one about substance, here. I respectfully propose that instead of pointing at the 'fluff' of others, from an invulnerable position, you now, as the 'new you', make a single posting about any bdsm concept, topic, fantasy or experience.

Say 500 words, since you've probably devoted more than 5000 so far to commentary on others' habits. Sound fair?

By your example lead the way to bringing more substance to this forum.

Best regards,

J.

 

[OutsideObserver]

Watch out for those trees, you might miss the forest

More of the same, I guess I should not be surprised.

Originally posted by WriterDom
Let's Discuss why you post under a troll name. What do you have to hide?

I have ugly toes.

Originally posted by Lancecastor
<Snip - stuff about possibilities>

With all those permutations and combinations of alternatives, I see no merit in being "Ewwww" about any one situation, from fluffy to blood-soaked.

Yes, I think we all know of ways to avoid stuff we do not care to read. But, as usual, you are missing the point. Fact is, it is there, and it drives people away. If 6 in 10 threads were about nothing but fluff, and the other 4 did not really interest you, would you be hanging around this forum long?

Originally posted by Freya2
So oo - care to attempt another troll post then? Looks like this one went a bit flat on you.

Note: before making unsubstantiated claims, try and get verification first. I didn't think anyone was offended that night, because if they had been I'm sure they would have told us. I don't know many of them well, but from what I've seen nobody here is shy about speaking their minds.

If non-responses would have scared me away, I would have been gone after the first post. If you look at some of the other responses, you will see that nothing I said was unsubstaniated, or unverified. As you can see, someone did comment. Maybe nobody was offended. As someone points out below, they made a post and was totally ignored due to the fluff. I apologize if you think this is a non-issue, but I felt it was worthy of comment.

Originally posted by SexyChele
Is this the only thing you can come up with this evening, OO? I'm a little disappointed.

I remember the night in question - I made a post in the middle of the exchange that was completely ignored. Oh well. Life goes on. Besides, if some one truly doesn't want to "watch" the exchange, just put the thread originator on "ignore" for the evening and guess what? The thread pops right off your screen and is no longer an irritant to you. Problem solved! What do you know about that?

Oh, but of course, you would have to remember to "un-ignore" the thread originator later, or you might miss their posts in the future!

Surely, there is some other issue worth discussing than this?

Fear not, SexyChele, no this is not the only thing I can find to comment upon. It was just next on the list. I feel it is better to keep the commentary spread out in order to allow people to ponder and comment on each.

Yes, thank you, I know how to deal with it. I also know that others know how to deal with it. However, dealing with it means people go elsewhere or stop coming back. If this were a rare occurance it would not be an issue. If it were not excessive, it would not be an issue.

Originally posted by Pure
The new question,
Fluff: When is it excessive?

is again one about substance, here. I respectfully propose that instead of pointing at the 'fluff' of others, from an invulnerable position, you now, as the 'new you', make a single posting about any bdsm concept, topic, fantasy or experience.

Say 500 words, since you've probably devoted more than 5000 so far to commentary on others' habits. Sound fair?

By your example lead the way to bringing more substance to this forum.

Thank you for the suggestion Pure. I will post what I have said before:

I am here to give commentary, nothing more. You can beat that drum (i.e., the why do you not post about BDSM drum) all you want, but I am not going to change.

If anyone can look past the "some fluff is necessary" and "just ignore it" and "why don't you post about BDSM" comments and actually discuss, I would love to read it. Otherwise, I'll move on to the next issue.

~=(O)--(O)=~

 

[lark sparrow]

Answer:

The worst possible fluff is commentary on fluff, Fluffy.

Please, try to get a life soon - those who create it have more of one than you.

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Watch out for those trees, you might miss the forest

If anyone can look past the "some fluff is necessary" and "just ignore it" and "why don't you post about BDSM" comments and actually discuss, I would love to read it. Otherwise, I'll move on to the next issue.

~=(O)--(O)=~

What's to discuss?

If a thread is too fluffy, I scroll past it.
Sometimes, I enjoy fluff. Teh forum has evolved from one that was only serious in nature and prohibiting "fluff" to one wherein people feel comfie posting at will. (Fluff or not."

If I pop in and 7 out of 10 threads are fluffy and I am not feeling fluffilicious, I will go bump a few threads that interest me or start a new one.

It is like an all-you -can -eat buffet. Sometimes, I go to the buffet and say, "What is that green stuff?" and keep on walking. Othertimes, I try a little dab.

Besides, what is fluff? For many of us, the lifestyle is one that is secret. When I met SpectreT for lunch a while back, I told him that it was fun just to be able to openly joke and giggle about BDSM stuff. Words and thoughts that had been silent were able to be vocalized to a real life person. Very cool stuff.

Absent real life friends, the forum does meet our social needs to an extent.

BTW, I don't mind your commentaries as long as they are focussed and respectful. Again, my only concern is that this forum doesn't evolve to one wherein the majority of threads are about dissecting the forum, social issues on the forum, posting styles etc. Talking about ourselves as a group some of the time, is cool as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Watch out for those trees, you might miss the forest

Fact is.....it drives people away.

I take the view that a negative attitude drives people away a lot faster than fluffy flirtations do, COh/OO.

But in the spirit of debate....Please provide proof that fluff drives people away.

I don't think anyone has data supporting either position, so it's a no win discussion, I think.

That's why I pointed out all the ways You can avoid fluff....if you want to.

Will you only participate if there is a Zero Fluff Policy?

Must we all bend to your will?

Here's another suggestion beyond using the software more effectively: You can help stop the Fluff Scourge by starting more threads about BDSM.

I look forward to seeing you participating here again in a more positive and welcoming way!

Lance

 

[Azzy]

to fluff, or not

I lurk. Always have. I post little. I've lurked for almost a year.

Fluff never drove me away. Nor would it.

Bashing people, negativity, talk about what's wrong with the forum instead of doing something about it ...

that would drive me away.

Of course, you'll pounce on me because all I do is lurk and don't contribute.

Whatever. This place gives me what I need, and when it doesn't I jump in.

I agree with Lance, this should be a place for everyone. I've yet to see the flood of new people be driven away by flirting.

Ok, back to silent and stealthy mode.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Sorry to disagree again, OO but flirting does not drive me away. And I enjoy a good fluff thread on occasion like anyone else. If I want deep, and I can't find it, I will try to make a thread that satisfies me or I will go to the GB and argue with REDWAVE.

As Lance put it- there is something for everyone at LIT. And anyone who leaves and claims to have been driven out, has only punished herself. There are hundreds of threads and thousands of people here.

 

[Freya]

Re: Watch out for those trees, you might miss the forest

If non-responses would have scared me away, I would have been gone after the first post. If you look at some of the other responses, you will see that nothing I said was unsubstaniated, or unverified. As you can see, someone did comment. Maybe nobody was offended. As someone points out below, they made a post and was totally ignored due to the fluff. I apologize if you think this is a non-issue, but I felt it was worthy of comment.

You made a claim that people were rolling their eyes, and thinking to themselves "Get a room". Yet at least 3 people that were posting that evening have replied here, and not one of them was bothered to the extent that you claimed. Chele's response was overlooked and she didn't care. UCE was there - and she's one of the most outspoken people I have seen here yet - she calls a spade a spade - I think if she were that bothered she'd have told us to STFU. Writer Dom replied to my apology with a remark, essentially saying that he wasn't bothered. So I repeat, your claims were unsubstantiated and unverified. If we were to invade every thread on here, night after night, then I could understand your point. As it stands now, you haven't made one.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Hi Freya. My question was and still is, how did he/she know that everyone was "rolling their eyes" or in the least bit bothered?

It is really easy to leave an annoying thread, if it is indeed annoying you. And again, if fluff threads are not your cup of tea then don't go there.

There is no fundamental purpose for this particular thread. It was started to complain about behaviors that the thread poster found annoying and that is simply that.

 

[Freya]

Hi Freya. My question was and still is, how did he/she know that everyone was "rolling their eyes" or in the least bit bothered?

It is really easy to leave an annoying thread, if it is indeed annoying you. And again, if fluff threads are not your cup of tea then don't go there.

There is no fundamental purpose for this particular thread. It was started to complain about behaviors that the thread poster found annoying and that is simply that.

Exactly. It's just a shame that she didn't just come right out and say that, rather than infer that others here were equally bothered.

 

[Pure]

OO said

If anyone can look past the "some fluff is necessary" and "just ignore it" and "why don't you post about BDSM" comments and actually discuss, I would love to read it. Otherwise, I'll move on to the next issue.

~=(O)--(O)=~

Isn't it a rule or norm of polite conversation that one party does not always insist on setting the topic? Just curious about your views....

 

[A Desert Rose]

OO said

If anyone can look past the "some fluff is necessary" and "just ignore it" and "why don't you post about BDSM" comments and actually discuss, I would love to read it. Otherwise, I'll move on to the next issue.

~=(O)--(O)=~

Isn't it a rule or norm of polite conversation that one party does not always insist on setting the topic? Just curious about your views....

To begin with, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who is more MissManners than I am.

That being said: You are quite a baffling individual. This is a BB, this is not a bridge party. The thread topic is set by the thread starter. Sometimes they stay on point, sometimes they do not. Sometimes they stray and come back to the topic. If someone in the thread is annoying someone else, that someone can use the ignore button or exercise real self control and just simply ignore the behavior (which is what I do) or move on to a different thread or make mention in the thread that the behavior is annoying to you. All those options are polite ways to deal with behavior YOU might find impolite or annoying to you.

 

[SexyChele]

*SIGH* (indicates heavy sigh)

I purposely put that bit about being ignored in my post just to see if it would be picked up. It worked.

As Freya states - it didn't "drive me away", and I believe I actually did post to other threads that night. Fact is, I can't think of one person who, at some point in time, didn't "highjack" a thread if even for one post. I know I have - and freely admit it. I try not to keep it too far off-track for too long, but hey, it happens.

Fluff can be fun and silly and nonsense. It's also how we know each other as human beings behind these machines. Has there been more "fluff" than normal here? I don't know. I suppose so. But considering the fact that the holiday season is full upon us, and most folks are stressed to the limit (or about to be!), I think a little more fluff is called for.

And, as has already been stated - people are always welcome to start serious topics anytime they choose to do so. Right now, the "flavor" of the board is leaning towards fluff - next week, it could be serious. People come, people go. I don't know of anyone that was driven off because of fluff. Strife? Maybe. Fluff? I don't think so!

 

[MissTaken]

One more option that we have...

if we are involved in a serious thread that is hijacked, there is nothing wrong with making a polite or joking comment to redirect the thread to being on topic.

OO seems to have many opinions on the nature and interaction of the board. Alot of what I am reading is reminiscent of issues raised during the turf wars and the almight Battle of the Sticky.

People have choices over and again, at lit.
The posters define the nature of any board by what choices they make.

If this forum becomes another Fluffdome similar to many "chat room"style forums, we have no one to blame or commend but ourselves.

However, if that is how it evolves based on the wants and desires of the posters, so be it.

I like the flexibility we have now.
I enjoy the forum and enjoy the tolerance shown to others, newcomers or oldsters.

 

[Pure]

Hi Desert Rose, High Desert Rose,

I had said,
Isn't it a rule or norm of polite conversation that one party does not always insist on setting the topic? Just curious about your views....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You replied,

To begin with, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who is more MissManners than I am.

That being said: You are quite a baffling individual. This is a BB, this is not a bridge party. The thread topic is set by the thread starter.

Nothing was directed your way. Your manners are great.

I don't see a thread as a series of speeches, or even 'papers' of someone on a topic (unless s/he says, here's parts of an essay, please give feedback).

Nor do I see it, ideally as beginning with one person's saying

"I believe x,y,z and here's why"

then knocking down everyone who slightly proposes that x is not 100% the case. Sort of Martin Luther at the debate forum.

This is a sort of macho exercize that benefits no one but the poster, and not even him/her as much as could be.

I submit that a thread starter should be willing to listen, AND when they hear a good point, related to the original ones, they say so, consider it, and discuss it, not "Hey I'll ignore you, since you've strayed from addressing MY exact original points."

Does this make any sense to you?

In addition, I'm not sure if it's a norm, but common friendly practice is NOT for the first person in a conversation to say,

"Let's talk about you, only" and insist on continuing to examine and critique the second one. I'm not sure why anyone would want to continue if someone continues to say,

"Here's another thing about you and your postings that I'd like to question. Don't change the subject to anything else."

What do you think?

 

[P. B. Walker]

*** Public Service Notice ***


For future notice, any person posting "fluff" will promptly be taken out back behind the shed, strapped to the whipping post and be given 20 lashes. This will be followed by a night in the hole. Oh and an ass reaming.


Mmmm... I wonder if this is actually a punishment for some... lol


PBW "I got your farkin fluff right here babeeeee"

P.S. I fluff in your general direction.