FLR v Femdom

[Cardinal]

Is there such a thing as a healthy FLR relationship that isn’t Femdom or the sub topping from the bottom?
Can there be a FLR that has mutual respect and just an alternative lifestyle or is it always BDSM?
I question because posts about FLR always seem to involve some sort of punishment casuals by an action of the sub that is totally avoidable or acting like a baby. And when that happens it appears to be topping from the bottom for attention.
In other words I want this sort of dynamic from my wife so I “break the rules” when I choose to and am “punished” in the way I like to be.
Example, “oh I was crabby so mistress put me back in chastity, I was soooooo humiliating when I heard the lock click and I had to give her a back massage.”
I’m not being critical I’m just questioning FLR as anything more than occasional role playing fun, which is fine, but is it a true 24/7 lifestyle?

 

[IrisAlthea]

Is there such a thing as a healthy FLR relationship that isn’t Femdom or the sub topping from the bottom?
Can there be a FLR that has mutual respect and just an alternative lifestyle or is it always BDSM?
I question because posts about FLR always seem to involve some sort of punishment casuals by an action of the sub that is totally avoidable or acting like a baby. And when that happens it appears to be topping from the bottom for attention.
In other words I want this sort of dynamic from my wife so I “break the rules” when I choose to and am “punished” in the way I like to be.
Example, “oh I was crabby so mistress put me back in chastity, I was soooooo humiliating when I heard the lock click and I had to give her a back massage.”
I’m not being critical I’m just questioning FLR as anything more than occasional role playing fun, which is fine, but is it a true 24/7 lifestyle?

I’m not sure I understand the question.

Are you asking if there are heterosexual relationships where the woman is more in charge but not sexually dominant and doesn’t cater to a husband who want’s to be dominated in the bedroom?

Or are you asking if there are women who are both sexually dominant and more in charge of the relationship in general?

 

[NancyPan]

I’m not sure I understand the question either, but we do live a FLR. Sure, there is a playful element, but I do not misbehave in order to get punished. My wife runs the house, assigns chores, and, decides when or if I am allowed to ejaculate. My goal is to please her, not to avoid punishment. If you have specific questions, I will try to answer them.

 

[Goldenfinger]

I will third the not understanding. It’s a lifestyle not a game. I don’t have rules per se. I’m not being beat into submission, I’m willfully submitting. I know there’s more than one way to eat a reese’s but a lot of stuff you see in memes and clips is fantasy.

 

[Will527]

To me, the perfect FLR is when she asks for and gets sex any time she wants it, however/wherever she wants it and whatever sex act she needs. Using my mouth or cock as she needs, whether she allows me to cum every time or not. Being denied is something I enjoy for future intense orgasms, which she delivers when and how she wants.

As far as housework, etc. I think everything should be split down the middle when both partners work for a living. I go along with delayed or denied orgasms for me but there is no "punishment" because there is always good communication.

 

[NancyPan]

To me, the perfect FLR is when she asks for and gets sex any time she wants it, however/wherever she wants it and whatever sex act she needs. Using my mouth or cock as she needs, whether she allows me to cum every time or not. Being denied is something I enjoy for future intense orgasms, which she delivers when and how she wants.

I like all this, and agree!

As far as housework, etc. I think everything should be split down the middle when both partners work for a living.

In an FLR like ours, She decides about this. My Wife is far from lazy. She does a lot, but I submit to Her. I do chores that I otherwise may not choose to do (like cleaning toilets), or making beds, etc. Also, I often do chores when She says they are to be done rather than when I choose to do them (the way it used to be).

I go along with delayed or denied orgasms for me but there is no "punishment" because there is always good communication.

I like this as well. I have been punished, but rarely. My goal is to please her. I will say that serving her, even when it is difficult, is a pleasure. It arouses me to serve Her.

 

[policywank]

In my view an FLR is simply a relationship where the woman leads. It has nothing to do with how she leads. If she is the leader it is her prerogative to determine how she leads. And if she is a good leader she will lead for the benefit of herself as well as those that she leads.

If she allows the person or people she is leading to get what they want by misbehaving then she isn't doing a good job of leading. If her Sub wants to be spanked then a spanking is a reward, not a punishment. She may choose to play along with role play because she knows that her Sub enjoys it. But in order for her to maintain her leadership role that has to occur on her terms and she cannot forfeit that control by allowing her Sub to dictate when those things occur through his misbehaviour.

Femdom is a different thing. It is a form of BDSM in which both partners agree that she will engage in specific domineering type behaviour. Contrary to appearances she may not be leading at all unless she is the one making the decisions regarding what domineering behaviour to engage in and when.

My relationship is an FLR and I do engage in FemDom, knowing full well that both my husband and I enjoy doing so. But I dictate what happens and when. If he ever tried to induce me to spank him or engage in other Femdom behaviour by misbehaving he would be genuinely punished, which would mean denying him that which he seeks and otherwise potentially administering steps that he genuinely does not want. The whole dynamic would break down if he could compel me to give him the Femdom he wants by misbehaving and I would have no interest in effectively being at his whim.

 

[NancyPan]

Thank you, @policywank, for your thoughtful clarification. You are not only a leader in your marriage, but I dare say a thought leader oftentimes on this forum. Femdom is often the stuff of fantasy for submissive males like me, and of course living a FLR lifestyle is nothing like porn. I will say, though, that for me, and perhaps many sub males who seek an FLR, we crave female authority and are aroused by women who are dominant, strict, and in control. I am most fortunate that my wife, who is not sadistic in the slightest, does enjoy erotic teasing, and she has realized the clear benefit to our marriage of her being in charge. Although I absolutely concur that FLR is not Femdom, as you know, there is an element of female domination that males like me crave and that make FLRs click.

 

[HottieOlwen]

Is there such a thing as a healthy FLR relationship that isn’t Femdom or the sub topping from the bottom?
Can there be a FLR that has mutual respect and just an alternative lifestyle or is it always BDSM?
I question because posts about FLR always seem to involve some sort of punishment casuals by an action of the sub that is totally avoidable or acting like a baby. And when that happens it appears to be topping from the bottom for attention.
In other words I want this sort of dynamic from my wife so I “break the rules” when I choose to and am “punished” in the way I like to be.
Example, “oh I was crabby so mistress put me back in chastity, I was soooooo humiliating when I heard the lock click and I had to give her a back massage.”
I’m not being critical I’m just questioning FLR as anything more than occasional role playing fun, which is fine, but is it a true 24/7 lifestyle?

Both my cuckold and I would like to think that our FLR is a lifestyle that is both consensual and one that was mutually agreed. Yes, I punish Richard, but not because he has gone out of his way to displease or disobey me. He likes a good spanking, and I like having him over my knee with his cock lock between my thighs. It's very often our form of foreplay, leading to me strapping on and pegging him. (Apart from clean up, it's the only form of penetrative sex he gets these days.)

Our FLR is certainly not role playing fun. It is indeed a 24/7/365 lifestyle

 

[policywank]

Thank you, @policywank, for your thoughtful clarification. You are not only a leader in your marriage, but I dare say a thought leader oftentimes on this forum. Femdom is often the stuff of fantasy for submissive males like me, and of course living a FLR lifestyle is nothing like porn. I will say, though, that for me, and perhaps many sub males who seek an FLR, we crave female authority and are aroused by women who are dominant, strict, and in control. I am most fortunate that my wife, who is not sadistic in the slightest, does enjoy erotic teasing, and she has realized the clear benefit to our marriage of her being in charge. Although I absolutely concur that FLR is not Femdom, as you know, there is an element of female domination that males like me crave and that make FLRs click.

Oh yes. I know that my cuckold enjoys Femdom. And he is a good boy so I indulge him. But I do so on my terms and he is not permitted to agitate for it.

 

[NancyPan]

Oh yes. I know that my cuckold enjoys Femdom. And he is a good boy so I indulge him. But I do so on my terms and he is not permitted to agitate for it.

Of course! He is very, very fortunate to submit to you! As I am fortunate to serve my beautiful wife!

 

[littlecordelera]

I've always considered all BDSM to be role play. I'm not trying to be derogatory, that's just the way I view it. Whether it is or not, I have no interest in role play, it feels silly to me.

But I run this marriage.

 

[artslut86]

I’m not sure I understand the question.

Are you asking if there are heterosexual relationships where the woman is more in charge but not sexually dominant and doesn’t cater to a husband who want’s to be dominated in the bedroom?

Or are you asking if there are women who are both sexually dominant and more in charge of the relationship in general?

If u r being punished the way u want.
Its not a punishment now is it. You want scenes not a r.ship.

 

[IrisAlthea]

If u r being punished the way u want.
Its not a punishment now is it. You want scenes not a r.ship.

No, that would be ”funishment”.
It is a scene or role play and is used in relationships or casual situations, regardless of the genders involved.

 

[SissySalina]

In most relationships there is one that tends to take the reins and be the decision maker, in the past the vast majority has been by the male. The FLR is a Female Lead Relationship which only means that the female and not the male is the major decision maker. The basic makeup of the relationship is the same whoever is the major decision maker.
The Femdom relationship is the BDSM relationship which may or may-not be role play. As any BDSM relationship there is a consensual understanding of the relationship between the Female and male parties with the Female taking the controlling interest.
The FLR is a normal full time relationship where the Femdom relationship may be part time or full time.

This is a sissy's opinion of the difference between the two types of relationships.

 

[4yourpleasureiam]

Watching a cockold humiliation video in which husband is allowed to be in bed and masturbate while wife and her lover make love. My wife let me watch but not touch her or her lover. I couldn't help but run my penis and cum. After they finished she would invariably demand I put my penis into her wet cum filled pussy. I do wanted to do that for her but after rubbing and draining my fluid plus the loss of my self esteem I could do anything with my limp little clitty. Often it barely show it's head and she then verbally humiliated me and told me I was not worthy of thinking myself a man. This as her friend lay beside her. I would give up and rub like a girl as they watched. I miss those sexually active days with her and now just rub.
Oh how I loved seeing her flowing with two or three cum loads and his cock and balls covered in their cum, anticipating a chance to perhaps taste them. Any one else enjoy tasting

 

[badaz06]

Like the thread, topic, and diverse viewpoints. I'm guessing, esp. for me, that there is a fine line between FLR and Femdom/BDSM, most of which would depend on everyone's definitions. I love a dominant woman, esp when she can get me into subspace. It's a bear finding the right person you can mesh with at so many different levels. Those of you that have found it, I'm envious

 

[oneguy4fun]

Policywank describes the FLR dynamic well. I'd just say that FLR is always talked about in the context of femdom and so in my opinion FLR is referring to a marriage where the female incorporates femdom to lead the relationship. As noted by Policywank, the FLR also includes mutual consent in that the male accepts the authority of his wife and the wife accepts her role as the leader. A relationship without femdom and without the formal mutual acceptance is just a traditional relationship in which the female is the dominant partner. These are pretty common relationships. How many times do you hear "she wears the pants". She may wear the pants but it's not FLR unless there is formal acceptance of her authority and she is actively incorporating aspects of femdom to lead the relationship (in my opinion).

In response to the OP questions, the way in which you framed the FLR is a very common misperception of FLR and is the reason why so may people struggle to make a FLR work. If the FLR is based primarily on punishment and kink then it is not sustainable because it really is only meeting the kink needs of the submissive, and as you alluded to, if there is always punishment, then it means the sub is not really serving her properly. Additionally there is mutual respect in a FLR. My wife has complete authority over me and she also has full respect and love for me. What makes it a FLR is that I accept her as having authority and power over me. I take great pleasure in serving her and making her life better. I enjoy being dominated and so my wife uses domination to motivate me, not punish me. Domination is used for discipline and motivation and only for punishment when needed. Discipline is different than punishment. It is about helping to refine and improve skills, breaking bad habits, and building good habits and routines. Bottom line is that the core of the FLR is a loving and trusting relationship. The sex, kink, and domination are aspects that are incorporated into the relationship to motivate the sub and to ensure the dominate partner has her needs and desires met.

 

[policywank]

A word that I use a lot when discussing this topic is obedience. I expect my husband to be obedient and to do so happily and willingly. For us it does take on an element of fetish. I suppose that isn't absolutely necessary, but we find that the fetish elements add an air of authenticity to our experience. That orientation towards obedience means that misbehaving is relatively rare exception. A good Sub will want to be obedient. It will give him satisfaction and fulfillment. And the greater the difficulty or discomfort the greater the satisfaction from succeeding.

That dynamic then brings me to the difference between discipline and punishment (as noted by oneguy4fun). If my husband is being properly obedient there will be few reasons to punish him. And outside specific role play I don't care for the exercise of pretending that I am punishing him for some faux offence. But he does genuinely enjoy being dominated mentally, emotionally and physically. So, when I am engaging in that activity it isn't for some made up offence. It could be because he needs to be reminded of his place or because I want to test his submission and obedience or I may use a particularly aggressive approach to give him a command. Like oneguy4fun mentioned I will give him tasks and commands that help him develop certain skills or alter certain habits. Those tasks and commands may be challenging in the sense of involving physical discomfort or psychological humiliation but there is a purpose and I know that he enjoys the experience and I have given him a path to success.

His chastity cage is a good example. He is in chastity full time. It serves both practical an symbolic purposes. He obeys and complies. Deferring to my decision is natural and gives him satisfaction. But while it is a powerful act of domination there is no punishment to it at all.

Meanwhile if I do something like spank him that doesn't really fit into a discipline dynamic, but it can be presented as a reward along the lines of "you love it you dirty little pervert, don't you." Make him admit that he loves it. Make him beg for it. Make him thank me profusely. Again he will happily comply and feel the full force of domination without any punishment involved.

 

[SPARTAN047]

FLRs seem to have inherent femdom, femdom can be only part of a normal relationship.

 

[NancyPan]

It gives me great satisfaction to obey my wife and to please Her. @policywank explains the dynamic very well. My wife has punished me, but rarely. My wish to please generally keeps me well within her expectations, and she tends to reward good behavior. She knows what motivates me!

 

[MorlockIam]

FLR does not have to have any kink elements at all. It is simply the woman calling the shots, having the last say, making policy etc It can be mutually respectful within the basic concept that the woman is in charge. There are FLR's without kink but I think kink tends to lend itself well to FLR, not that they have to be extreme kinks.

For me CFNM is an obvious one, never seeing my lady naked, having to be naked around her as much as possible. That power imbalance.

 

[eroticspank]

In my opinion, Femdom is a female-dominant in the bedroom. She calls the shots in the bedroom. It does not have to include any kind of BDSM or role-playing. It can be completely vanilla sex but with the woman directing the scene. This does work well with D/s and BDSM play and that is probably why many dominant women in the bedroom end up going that route. And it is the stuff of many men's fantasies.

A FLR is a relationship run by a woman. The relationship is much more than just the bedroom, it involves everything in the lives of the couple. Mainly she is in charge of safety, security, emotional and physical happiness. I find it hard to describe at this moment but when I think about it, the woman is usually involved in the relationship part in most marriages because that is the most important part to her. Many couples out there are FLRs because the woman eventually takes over anyway, to ensure their relationship stays solid and the husband obeys. In some cases, the woman sees sex as a way to keep their man in line and it is used accordingly. The man gets sex and the woman gets security, emotional, and physical satisfaction.

My point is that women and men look at sex differently. Once the woman figures this out, and she is the type to take control, she uses this knowledge to the benefit of them both.

A FLR can be with a Femdom woman as I mentioned above or not.

ES

 

[Grogu269]

Femdom to me is basically the woman controlling the sex, if there is sex, what acts, how often, and whether the man achieves orgasm or not. In porn, written and visual, femdom is characterized as women doing just what men want them to do, torturing the man or "making" him come, and being "forced" to satisfy her the way he actually desires. The relationship may or may not involve BDSM, pain and punishment, etc. but that would be decided by the woman.

FLR would be the woman controlling basically everything, i.e. sex, financial decisions and control, etc. but it doesn't necessarily mean that the man has to be feminized, degraded or humiliated as part of the relationship. And if either of them is into the pain and punishment, spanking, etc., that reverts to a BDSM lifestyle.

 

[Goldenfinger]

In my opinion, Femdom is a female-dominant in the bedroom. She calls the shots in the bedroom. It does not have to include any kind of BDSM or role-playing. It can be completely vanilla sex but with the woman directing the scene. This does work well with D/s and BDSM play and that is probably why many dominant women in the bedroom end up going that route. And it is the stuff of many men's fantasies.

A FLR is a relationship run by a woman. The relationship is much more than just the bedroom, it involves everything in the lives of the couple. Mainly she is in charge of safety, security, emotional and physical happiness. I find it hard to describe at this moment but when I think about it, the woman is usually involved in the relationship part in most marriages because that is the most important part to her. Many couples out there are FLRs because the woman eventually takes over anyway, to ensure their relationship stays solid and the husband obeys. In some cases, the woman sees sex as a way to keep their man in line and it is used accordingly. The man gets sex and the woman gets security, emotional, and physical satisfaction.

My point is that women and men look at sex differently. Once the woman figures this out, and she is the type to take control, she uses this knowledge to the benefit of them both.

A FLR can be with a Femdom woman as I mentioned above or not.

ES

I like your description.