FLDS compound

[Ham Murabi]

If you're paying attention to what's going on in Texas, what's your opinion?
So far the police there have allegedly received a call from a 16-year-old girl who allegedly gave birth at age 15 with the child allegedly fathered by a 50-year-old man in Arizona who has never heard of the girl.
So the cops came in and took ALL the children they could find and many of the women. I think perhaps the women left just so they could keep track of their children. There's no indication in what I've read that they left willingly.
Now Texas CPS is trying to place the children in foster homes.
Why?
Are the children abused or showing any signs of abuse? If they are that isn't being reported. And the question apparently isn't being asked by the press following the case.
What do you think?

 

[RoryN]

Has it been conclusively proven that these folks are polygamist nutjobs?

 

[Lavared]

*****

 

[Lavared]

The obvious comparison is with Waco and that was handled so poorly that it's hard to imagine the government screwing up that badly again.

Not impossible to imagine, just hard.

 

[Ham Murabi]

I'm still a little hazy on this "we're coming in to take your kids" thing. Again, no information at all that any of the children forcibly removed have been physically harmed in any way.

 

[Kanomi]

Please remove your US army bases from Okinawa Japan.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I'm still a little hazy on this "we're coming in to take your kids" thing. Again, no information at all that any of the children forcibly removed have been physically harmed in any way.

That's immaterial and unprovable at this point.

Look at this from the point of view of a Social worker called in because a minor girl accuses her parents of abusing her. Until the mess gets straightened out they are very likely to remove any and all of the children from the parent's care for their own safety in case the charges turn out to be true.

now multiply that situation by 1000.

 

[Songcatcher]

I beg your pardon?

 

[firespin]

I'm still a little hazy on this "we're coming in to take your kids" thing. Again, no information at all that any of the children forcibly removed have been physically harmed in any way.

So you're thinking that a polygamist sect full of underage brides is probably not violating any laws? For example, the ones against polygamist sects, and underage brides?

 

[Legenda]

I'm still a little hazy on this "we're coming in to take your kids" thing. Again, no information at all that any of the children forcibly removed have been physically harmed in any way.

It is a bit disturbing that the Texas law enforcement didn't give you a call to keep you up to speed on the investigation.

 

[firespin]

Has it been conclusively proven that these folks are polygamist nutjobs?

The 50-year old men in Arizona are denying everything.

Why would we question their credibility?

Lots of people have private compounds full of children and underage women who are kept under house arrest.

Well...maybe not lots.

But there must be a few other people out there who just really, really like "family time".

 

[firespin]

Here's an update on this topic:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080408/D8VTV5G00.html

"ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - A polygamist compound with hundreds of children was rife with sexual abuse, child welfare officials allege in court documents, with girls spiritually married to much older men as soon as they reached puberty and boys groomed to perpetuate the cycle.

The documents released Tuesday also gave details about the hushed phone calls that broke open the case, by a 16-year-old girl at the West Texas ranch who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. Days after raiding the compound, officials still aren't sure where the girl is.

Officials have completed removing all 416 children from the ranch and have won custody of all of them, Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner told reporters in San Angelo, about 40 miles from the compound in Eldorado.

Court documents said a number of teen girls at the 1,700-acre compound were pregnant, and that all the children were removed on the grounds that they were in danger of "emotional, physical, and-or sexual abuse." Another 136 women left on their own.

"Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (Yearn for Zion) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.

McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to produce children."

 

[Vikingstone]

Please remove your US army bases from Okinawa Japan.

Make me.

 

[Songcatcher]

Touche'.

 

[JustSkye]

Here's an update on this topic:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080408/D8VTV5G00.html

"ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - A polygamist compound with hundreds of children was rife with sexual abuse, child welfare officials allege in court documents, with girls spiritually married to much older men as soon as they reached puberty and boys groomed to perpetuate the cycle.

The documents released Tuesday also gave details about the hushed phone calls that broke open the case, by a 16-year-old girl at the West Texas ranch who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. Days after raiding the compound, officials still aren't sure where the girl is.

Officials have completed removing all 416 children from the ranch and have won custody of all of them, Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner told reporters in San Angelo, about 40 miles from the compound in Eldorado.

Court documents said a number of teen girls at the 1,700-acre compound were pregnant, and that all the children were removed on the grounds that they were in danger of "emotional, physical, and-or sexual abuse." Another 136 women left on their own.

"Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (Yearn for Zion) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.

McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to produce children."

thank you.

 

[Songcatcher]

Ughh.

 

[KRCummings]

Here's an update on this topic:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080408/D8VTV5G00.html

"ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - A polygamist compound with hundreds of children was rife with sexual abuse, child welfare officials allege in court documents, with girls spiritually married to much older men as soon as they reached puberty and boys groomed to perpetuate the cycle.

The documents released Tuesday also gave details about the hushed phone calls that broke open the case, by a 16-year-old girl at the West Texas ranch who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. Days after raiding the compound, officials still aren't sure where the girl is.

Officials have completed removing all 416 children from the ranch and have won custody of all of them, Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner told reporters in San Angelo, about 40 miles from the compound in Eldorado.

Court documents said a number of teen girls at the 1,700-acre compound were pregnant, and that all the children were removed on the grounds that they were in danger of "emotional, physical, and-or sexual abuse." Another 136 women left on their own.

"Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (Yearn for Zion) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.

McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to produce children."

Good enough reason to go in and get them, at least for me.

 

[beachgurl3]

Ham, what do you think the odds are that there was no abuse going on and the church members are just being unfairly persecuted? really, be honest now...

 

[Slowlane]

It might an overreaction on the surface of it. All this to-do over the word of a sixteen year old who has yet to be proven to even exist. Texas police and overreactions seem to go hand in hand.

However, anytime anyone starts to sequester themselves like that it naturally raises suspicions. In this case I stand with the cops.

 

[JustSkye]

It might an overreaction on the surface of it. All this to-do over the word of a sixteen year old who has yet to be proven to even exist. Texas police and overreactions seem to go hand in hand.

However, anytime anyone starts to sequester themselves like that it naturally raises suspicions. In this case I stand with the cops.

She does indeed exist.

The compound was raided Thursday after the 16-year-old girl called a local family violence shelter March 29 and 30, using someone else's cell phone and speaking in hushed tones to avoid being overheard, McFadden's affidavit said.

The girl said she was not allowed to leave the compound unless she was ill. She told the shelter that her husband would "beat and hurt" her when he got angry, including hitting her in the chest and choking her while another woman in the house held her baby.

The girl also said her husband sexually assaulted her, and that she was several weeks pregnant. The girl told the shelter her husband went to "the outsiders' world" but didn't know where.

Authorities have issued an arrest warrant for church member Dale Barlow, who is believed to be in Arizona, but the girls' husband is not identified in the court documents released Tuesday.

In the March 30 call, the girl told the shelter she was being held against her will. If she left, church members told her, "outsiders will hurt her, force her to cut her hair, to wear makeup and (modern) clothes and to have sex with lots of men."

Because she is a minor, and involved in an abuse case, as well as sexual assault, they're not going to give her name. You should know this.

 

[Mansa Musa]

Please remove your US army bases from Okinawa Japan.

Please apologize for the Rape of Nanking. Domo arigato gozaimasu, nee-tyan!

 

[Slowlane]

She does indeed exist.


Because she is a minor, and involved in an abuse case, as well as sexual assault, they're not going to give her name. You should know this.

The last I heard - which was about noon today - they were still saying they hadn't found her. If they have - so much the better.

 

[firespin]

The last I heard - which was about noon today - they were still saying they hadn't found her. If they have - so much the better.

They've found a bunch of pregnant teenagers.

Paternity testing should be interesting.

 

[Ham Murabi]

So you're thinking that a polygamist sect full of underage brides is probably not violating any laws? For example, the ones against polygamist sects, and underage brides?

I am well aware of the FLDS. I followed the trials in Utah and Arizona closely and know children marry men, sometimes much older men. The whole thing strikes me as unsavory.
But if the government allows men to marry men and women women, I'm sure something like polygamy can be included under the big tent.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't religious freedom is a cornerstone of this society?
I'm saying the state took those children, over 400 of them, and had no idea whether they were abused or not. I've not read a report of bruised infants or toddlers, of 8-year-old girls sporting shiners.
The state of Texas is saying there are a number of girls who are pregnant and underage. It would appear to me the FLDS retreat is going to be history sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, all those mothers who already may be very anxious to leave are going to be separated from their children. Last I heard, the state was trying to find foster homes for every one of them. How many siblings will be separated? Is this good for them?
Finally, as of this writing no one on Lit, no one, knows if there are families in that compound who played by their own rules and were monogamous. Is that a possibility you have considered.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Ham, what do you think the odds are that there was no abuse going on and the church members are just being unfairly persecuted? really, be honest now...

Read my previous post. I'm not defending the FLDS, but I'm seriously questioning the need to separate over 400 children from their parents, especially their mothers.