First time and first paragraph: (Detailed description)

[hephaestos]

In the second post I’ll disclose a roughly 1600 word section of my story. If you don’t want to read it, I would still appreciate an answer to several Literotica newbie questions; specifically about the writing/editing/posting process of stories that I haven’t found answered anywhere else.

1) The forum guidelines, to which I agreed, said I should not post anything obscene, vulgar or sexually-oriented, of which I have the intention of doing plenty of.

2) What’s the difference between copy and literary editing (I’ve seen it discussed in several post and would want to know what it is before requesting it)

3) The writing quality of this post is roughly the quality of text you can expect before being submitted to editing, is it enough?





And now to the story below: I am a second language English speaker (my mother tongue is German for anyone interested) and there are several questions I want to ask.

1) Even though I’ve spent several years in the US, I’ve never learned any English way of setting commas so I use the German way, which I know is false since the English language just doesn’t seem to have commas. In German we use commas between each clause (basically whenever you take a breath when reading a sentence loud) but that doesn’t seem to be the case in English. I know there aren’t any simple, quick-fix guidelines, but if you could proofread this section and give me some hints, I think it would save a lot of VE’s at least some headache.

2) The use of combined words (I know there is an English word for this but I can’t remember it. Frau Neuber would be so mad if she found out) like have not or haven’t. Are there any rules or guidelines? Is it ok to mix them?

3) I’m using MSWord as spellchecker and when I write something like Heathers it gives me the choice between Heather’s and Heathers’. Which one is correct?

4) Most (read: all) of the authors I’ve been frequenting on Literotica have been using paragraphs instead of breaks so I’ve been trying that style too. My question is if mine are correctly spaced.

 

[hephaestos]

some text

 

[sr71plt]

More important, the Web site (as confirmed repeatedly by the moderators) doesn't want you to post more than a couple of paragraphs of story text to the forum. This circumvents the Web owners selection privileges.

 

[hephaestos]

I'm sorry I hadn't known that.

I had read that guideline but also seen people post lengthy stories.

If someone would give me a more appropriate word count I could try and post something if you are still interested.

 

[mwilliams1081]

First off you've got a lot of guts to post in a second language. I speak german and have even done some translation to English but I wouldn't try to post a story in German.

1) There are a lot of commas in English. They are generally used for a pause (one comma) or an aside (one on each end). They are also used to separate quotes from the including sentence unless a ? or ! is appropriate. This is an instance I am struggling with.

2) They're called contractions and I would say yes, use them. That's how people talk except for people who are speaking English as a second language. They would not use contractions or idioms. That is an issue in something I'm writing.

3) I Believe Heather's means Heather is (see contractions above); Heathers' means belonging to Heather. Someone out there will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[sr71plt]

First 3) I Believe Heather's means Heather is (see contractions above); Heathers' means belonging to Heather. Someone out there will correct me if I'm wrong.

Unfortunately not. If her name is Heather, both the contraction of "Heather is" and possessive (belongs to Heather) is Heather's. (Heathers' would be the combined possessive of more than one Heather).

If her name is Heathers (with an s on the end), the possessive can be either Heathers' or Heathers's, depending on the authority you follow--but who names anyone Heathers?

Spellcheck, by the way, is hopeless with possessives.

 

[sweetfanny]

1. You can use commas to separate clauses in English, too. This is a good site for English grammar: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/

2. It's okay to mix contractions (that's the word you can't remember) with the separate words; it is really down to preference and what works best for your story.

3. What SR71 said about Heather's/Heathers' is dead on.

4. Someone else can answer that. : )

 

[elfin_odalisque]

More important, the Web site (as confirmed repeatedly by the moderators) doesn't want you to post more than a couple of paragraphs of story text to the forum. This circumvents the Web owners selection privileges.

He's wrong - again

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I'm sorry I hadn't known that.

I had read that guideline but also seen people post lengthy stories.

If someone would give me a more appropriate word count I could try and post something if you are still interested.

You're right, sr invents rules as he wallows in his primeval swamp.

People may not read long pieces but they are accepted.

 

[Bramblethorn]

2) What’s the difference between copy and literary editing (I’ve seen it discussed in several post and would want to know what it is before requesting it)

Copy editing is about things like spelling and grammar mistakes, i.e. making sure the English is technically correct.

Literary editing is about improving storytelling technique - less about rules and more about 'art'. For instance, I might tell an author "this bit will read better if you don't use as many adverbs" or "readers are going to be confused by why Bob has suddenly decided to rob a bank, you need to give them more explanation".

 

[sr71plt]

Suppose we need a moderator of this forum to step in yet again with the "no more than three paragraphs, please" mantra, since Elfin in her absolute looneyness just isn't capable of "getting it."

 

[PennLady]

He's wrong - again

No, he's not. I have asked MistressLynn, one of the moderators, and she said a few paragraphs, about three, are fine for asking for help. Posting entire stories is not appropriate. She's posted this on a few threads as well.

 

[sr71plt]

See MistressLynn's (she's a moderator of this forum) post #9 on this thread: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=852623&highlight=paragraphs. (She even highlighted it in red and bold).

 

[_Lynn_]

PL and SR are both correct.

Posting up to three paragraphs on the forum is fine. Posting more on the forum is not.

Yes, I've mentioned not to post more than three paragraphs on other threads before.

That information is also highlighted here.

 

[sr71plt]

Will Elfin just stop pretending she hasn't been told this now? (I'm voting she won't--that she'll just continue confusing folks who are new and haven't caught up with it yet.)

 

[HeartlessTerror]

Available

Hey, I am available for all and any edits needed. I have signed up to be a volunteer editor on literotica along with an explanation on what I will and will not do. I will spell check/ grammar check anything. but there are a few topics that I don't involve myself with and have little knowledge.

 

[_Lynn_]

Hey, I am available for all and any edits needed. I have signed up to be a volunteer editor on literotica along with an explanation on what I will and will not do. I will spell check/ grammar check anything. but there are a few topics that I don't involve myself with and have little knowledge.

Please ensure you have switched on your Private Messages. Go to User CP (top left of this page), click on Edit Options (in the left hand column), and then tick Enable Private Messaging in the second box down. Make sure that the next box down (Receive Private Messages only from Buddies and Moderators) is NOT ticked. Finally click Save Changes at the bottom of that page.

 

[hephaestos]

Hi, thank for all the replies.

I'm still not entirely sure if I'm allowed to post lengthy stories or not. The consensus seems to be that one can only post up to 3 paragraphs, but I still don’t know what that means so maybe a specific word count would be better?

Regarding my general questions
1) No one has answered that one yet.

Regarding my grammar questions
1) After quickly scanning the website sweetfanny gave me (thanks, it's really helpful), I have the feeling that the English language accepts a lot more optional comas that I thought it did.

Taking an example from the site: Yesterday was her brother's birthday, so she took him out to dinner.

In German I would automatically place a comma, but in English I’m always unsure. As you can see in the highlighted text up top I didn’t place a coma: was that comma either optional, incorrect or mandatory?

2) Basically just wing it. Not much help but at least I have some leeway when explaining my mistakes

3) So in almost all cases the Heather's variant is correct. I guess I can leave the small minority of other cases to the editor.

#Edit 1: fixed some pretty bad spelling mistaces

 

[PennLady]

Hi, thank for all the replies.

I'm still not entirely sure if I'm allowed to post lengthy stories or not. The consensus seems to be that one can only post up to 3 paragraphs, but I still don’t know what that means so maybe a specific word count would be better?

Since paragraphs are of varying length, it'd be hard to give you a word count. However, I'm also willing to bet that if you had two or three short graphs, such as dialogue, people wouldn't be averse to seeing something slightly more.

Regarding my general questions
1) No one has answered that one yet.

I think this applies to posts in the forum as opposed to the stories on the site and is meant to prevent threads from devolving into strings of insults. Not saying it always works, but that'd be my guess. However, a moderator or Laurel could give better information.

Regarding my grammar questions
1) After quickly scanning the website sweetfanny gave me (thanks, it's really helpful), I have the feeling that the English language accepts a lot more optional comas that I thought it did.

Taking an example fro the site: Having Yesterday was her brother's birthday, so she took him out to dinner.

In German I would automatically place a comma, but in English I’m always unsure. As you can see in the highlighted text up top I didn’t place a coma: was that comma either optional, incorrect or mandatory?

I don't know about optional commas. There are rules about this in English, of course, but I couldn't pretend to know them all. For the specific example you cited, the sentence is incorrect as it stands; I'm not sure if you copied it or mixed up a couple of words. If someone had sent it to me, I'd recommend changing it entirely, either to:

Since yesterday was her brother's birthday, she took him out to dinner.

or

She took her brother out to dinner yesterday, which was his birthday.

I'd use a comma in either of those sentences.

2) Basically just wing it. Not much help but at least I have some leeway when explaining my mistakes

For grammar rules, resources are available online and in books. For writing fiction, there are probably some basic rules but there's no one way of doing it. My basic rule is to make sure things are clear to the reader, but that doesn't mean I have to tell a linear story. I can use flashbacks, or jump ahead and then fill in, or whatever.

3) So in almost all cases the Heather's variant is correct. I guess I can leave the small minority to the editor.

Heather's: can mean something that belongs to Heather, such as "Heather's book."

Can also be a contraction of "Heather is," such as "Heather's going to the party."

Heathers: more than one girl named Heather (and a funny movie from way back)

Heathers': plural possessive; something that belongs to all of the girls named Heather.

 

[sr71plt]

Regarding my grammar questions
1) After quickly scanning the website sweetfanny gave me (thanks, it's really helpful), I have the feeling that the English language accepts a lot more optional comas that I thought it did.

The extent which commas are used in the English language depends on the intent of what is written. Commas are minimized for private correspondence and general writing. But U.S. publishers maximize the use of commas in published works. Their concern is for the reader and that the lowest common denominator reader in their target audience can clearly follow the tracking of the sentence. Thus, U.S. publishing tends to use the serial comma (Erick, Dietrich, and Klaus) and for more introductory clauses of greater length than about four words (although they are squishy on this practice), and they always use the comma for independent clauses (which) and never for dependent clauses (that). The general rule is to use commas to separate two independent clauses and not to use one to separate an independent and dependent clause (but, again, they get squishy on when to apply this).

In general, though, you'll finding U.S. publishing using more commas than general writing in English uses.

(Afraid, as PennLady pointed out, though, your example indicates you've got greater issues to work on before getting to comma placement. I'd suggest you do try to get an English-language editor before posting to Literotica.)

 

[hephaestos]

Since paragraphs are of varying length, it'd be hard to give you a word count.

That’s exactly why I'm asking. If I really wanted to break the system I could easily condense my 1600 word section into one paragraph, but I’m guessing that's not what was originally intended.

Regarding commas
In German the comma rules are pretty ridged and are roughly what SR describes as the lowest common denominator. So I thing I’m save just following the German rules, since there doesn't seem to be any huge difference in incorrect comma placement.

Regarding my example
I'm sorry, I misquoted. The original quote should have been: Yesterday was her brother's birthday, so she took him out to dinner. I've fixed it in the original message to avoid further confusion.

(Afraid, as PennLady pointed out, though, your example indicates you've got greater issues to work on before getting to comma placement. I'd suggest you do try to get an English-language editor before posting to Literotica.)

I hope that after the mistake has been cleared up you feel differently, but if you don't: what is an English language editor and what dose he/she do?

 

[_Lynn_]

That’s exactly why I'm asking. If I wanted to really break the system I could easily condense my 1600 word section into one paragraph, but I’m guessing that not what was originally intended.

Look at this example (taken from SR's post). Adding too many more lines gives us that nasty wall of black that's difficult to read. This is a good size for a paragraph then.

The extent which commas are used in the English language depends on the intent of what is written. Commas are minimized for private correspondence and general writing. But U.S. publishers maximize the use of commas in published works. Their concern is for the reader and that the lowest common denominator reader in their target audience can clearly follow the tracking of the sentence. Thus, U.S. publishing tends to use the serial comma (Erick, Dietrich, and Klaus) and for more introductory clauses of greater length than about four words (although they are squishy on this practice), and they always use the comma for independent clauses (which) and never for dependent clauses (that). The general rule is to use commas to separate two independent clauses and not to use one to separate an independent and dependent clause (but, again, they get squishy on when to apply this).

Now here's another example.

"Billie, what happened to you over there? Why are you so negative and full of hatred?"

"Gee, Mom, let me think. Could it be that I killed people? You know, the same people I tracked down just so I could shoot them. Don't you get it? They were just like us. They had families, came from families. They were human."

"No, that's where you're wrong. They weren't even close to the same."

So let's call each a paragraph then.

 

[hephaestos]

Using MistressLynn’s examples, an acceptable number of words would be between 200-400.

I am considering posting a roughly 270 word segment. Would that be acceptable?

 

[sr71plt]

That should be fine, I think.