Female Version of 'Macho'?

[Safe_Bet]

Why, Jimmy Bob, I didn't know you cared!

Rob, I think it's the BDSM thing you're into. I think Jimmy Bob want's to be collared and "own3d"! I can just imagine how hot he got when you were talking about making floggers the other day!

 

[Tanuki]

I hear 'hottie' and I think a cute guy.

 

[shereads]

"shereads"

 

[shereads]

This is one of those issues that reminds us how slowly language catches up with social change. There don't seem to be any adjectives for ultra-femininity that don't connote either weakness or whorishness.

You could call them "amazons," and we'd know they are neither weak nor prostitutes.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

This is one of those issues that reminds us how slowly language catches up with social change. There don't seem to be any adjectives for ultra-femininity that don't connote either weakness or whorishness.

You could call them "amazons," and we'd know they are neither weak nor prostitutes.

Strangely, the term was once "virgin." (i.e. the virgin huntress) At one time, it didn't actually mean a woman who had never had sex.

Wouldn't work in today's lingo tho.

 

[shereads]

Strangely, the term was once "virgin." (i.e. the virgin huntress) At one time, it didn't actually mean a woman who had never had sex.

Wouldn't work in today's lingo tho.

"A couple of tricked-out virgins."

You're right.

 

[CharleyH]

This is one of those issues that reminds us how slowly language catches up with social change. There don't seem to be any adjectives for ultra-femininity that don't connote either weakness or whorishness.

You could call them "amazons," and we'd know they are neither weak nor prostitutes.

Is it language that's not caught up with social change, or is it that society hasn't quite learnt how to change their POV?

For example, in 'The White Goddess', Robert Graves points out three types of women: the wife (birth), the witch (death) and the whore (love). Amazons fall under the same category as Sigourney Weaver in Alien (HAGS) BTW, Sher . Graves 'White Goddess' has been in print since 1948 and it seems strange to me that the image of women in 2008 is still the same as in 1948. Further examples: If we take all cultural texts like music, movies, photos and literature from even the first written word until now, 2008, the image of woman has not changed beyond wife, witch and whore. It's not so much that language can't keep up - language always can. It's just that the spin-master called society won't budge on this issue. Women ARE wives, hags or whores in our current language.

CH

 

[xssve]

The trick is finding all three of them in one person.

I think the Maiden is another archtype however, neither hag nor whore, nor wife, an unrealized potential.

 

[CharleyH]

The trick is finding all three of them in one person.

I think the Maiden is another archtype however, neither hag nor whore, nor wife, an unrealized potential.

but the maiden is nothing but a potential wife - pure and virginal. How would you re-define her? What word would you use?

 

[Stella_Omega]

The classic triplet is Maiden, Mother, Crone. Sexual rapacity had nothing to do with it, that's a quirk of personality.

Terry Pratchett's Granny Weatherwax, according to her sister witches, embodied two in one-- the maiden and the crone. Nanny, no matter how old and wrinkled she got, remained the Mother (sexually active and aware) -- period. Never progressed to sexless old woman. Magrat who was once the Maiden became a mother, and will move on to old and wise age in due course.

Pratchett is exceptionally talented at balancing archetypes with individual types, not letting the one overpower the other

 

[CharleyH]

The classic triplet is Maiden, Mother, Crone. Sexual rapacity had nothing to do with it, that's a quirk of personality.

Terry Pratchett's Granny Weatherwax, according to her sister witches, embodied two in one-- the maiden and the crone. Nanny, no matter how old and wrinkled she got, remained the Mother (sexually active and aware) -- period. Never progressed to sexless old woman. Magrat who was once the Maiden became a mother, and will move on to old and wise age in due course.

Pratchett is exceptionally talented at balancing archetypes with individual types, not letting the one overpower the other

So we are maidens, mothers and crones?

LOVE IT - Can you give me book links?

 

[Stella_Omega]

So we are maidens, mothers and crones?
LOVE IT - Can you give me book links?

Are people reducible to single words?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=terry+pratchett&aq=2&oq=terry+

 

[xssve]

I think the virgin/whore Madonna/whore dichotomies are mixed in there, no denying it's a valid linguistic/political construct.

And of course, by valid, I mean conceptually valid, i.e., that it's commonly and widely employed and understood whether you agree that it's fair, reasonable, sane, etc., or not. It has meaning, if only in reference to patrimonial social economics.

 

[CharleyH]

Are people reducible to single words?

In current society? Yes,

 

[Stella_Omega]

Found this article; Gender differences and sexism in the knowledge and use of slang that might be interesting for some of us here!

Written in 97, which means that usages have changed since then. It's time for a new survey, IMO.

Xssve, I want to thank you for clarifying your use of the word "valid"-- so very much!

 

[CharleyH]

I think the virgin/whore Madonna/whore dichotomies are mixed in there, no denying it's a valid linguistic/political construct.

And of course, by valid, I mean conceptually valid, i.e., that it's commonly and widely employed and understood whether you agree that it's fair, reasonable, sane, etc., or not. It has meaning.

So, with all this in mind, do you have anything new?

 

[Stella_Omega]

In current society? Yes,

Huh! What society are you living in, because not even Sarah Palin can be described in one word alone!

 

[CharleyH]

Found this article; Gender differences and sexism in the knowledge and use of slang that might be interesting for some of us here!

Written in 97, which means that usages have changed since then. It's time for a new survey, IMO.

Xssve, I want to thank you for clarifying your use of the word "valid"-- so very much!

Eagerly waiting. Didn't find links in your post, Stell.

 

[xssve]

So, with all this in mind, do you have anything new?

Words, you mean? No. Coquette, which is sort of virginal whore, a chick on the make, so to speak.

 

[CharleyH]

Huh! What society are you living in, because not even Sarah Palin can be described in one word alone!

Oh Pfft! I love you.

 

[xssve]

Xssve, I want to thank you for clarifying your use of the word "valid"-- so very much!

You're welcome, although explaining every nuance of every word I use may result in some very long posts.

"Whore" functions, by this definition, as a modifier rather than a noun in context of a patrimonial linguistic structure - a "whore" is simply a woman who sleeps with more than one man, raising questions of paternity.

There may be, and I believe there are, linguistic systems in which the distinction is not made, though most populations do evolve some system of tracking parentage, if only to avoid excessive/accidental inbreeding.

 

[xssve]

Most animals do this by smell; humans tend to compensate for attenuated senses with linguistic/symbolic constructs.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Found this article; Gender differences and sexism in the knowledge and use of slang that might be interesting for some of us here!

Eagerly waiting. Didn't find links in your post, Stell.

Can you see it now?

 

[Stella_Omega]

You're welcome, although explaining every nuance of every word I use may result in some very long posts.

"Whore" functions, by this definition, as a modifier rather than a noun in context of a patrimonial linguistic structure - a "whore" is simply a woman who sleeps with more than one man, raising questions of paternity.

There may be, and I believe there are, linguistic systems in which the distinction is not made, though most populations do evolve some system of tracking parentage, if only to avoid excessive/accidental inbreeding.

I thought that was "Slut," and "Whore" refers to women who fuck for gain-- monetary or otherwise.

Anyway, there's a bizillion modifiers. Whatever the patrimonial linguistic structure (good one!) might lead one to conclude, has nothing to do with the non-patrimonial linguistic structure that is, slowly beginning to take precedent.

And as someone who would be nothing more than a Hoyden and probably, a Scold in the old language, I have a great deal invested in replacing all of those craptastic simplistic nouns with more thoughtful, less limiting, phrases.


Really Victorian society had some kind of fetish for delimitors. Those guys spent huge amounts of energy in defining everything they could. Race-- not only did they outline the broadest of physical appearances as "race" but they even wanted to define the inhabitants of one peice of land as a different "race" from another area's dwellers. We are still trying to untangle to silliness.

it's so juvenile. When you listen to five year olds, they are talking about "favorite colors;" MY favorite color is green! You have to have a different favorite color!"

 

[xssve]

I thought that was "Slut," and "Whore" refers to women who fuck for gain-- monetary or otherwise.

Anyway, there's a bizillion modifiers. Whatever the patrimonial linguistic structure (good one!) might lead one to conclude, has nothing to do with the non-patrimonial linguistic structure that is, slowly beginning to take precedent.

And as someone who would be nothing more than a Hoyden and probably, a Scold in the old language, I have a great deal invested in replacing all of those craptastic simplistic nouns with more thoughtful, less limiting, phrases.


Really Victorian society had some kind of fetish for delimitors. Those guys spent huge amounts of energy in defining everything they could. Race-- not only did they outline the broadest of physical appearances as "race" but they even wanted to define the inhabitants of one peice of land as a different "race" from another area's dwellers. We are still trying to untangle to silliness.

it's so juvenile. When you listen to five year olds, they are talking about "favorite colors;" MY favorite color is green! You have to have a different favorite color!"

The taxonomic compulsion - the first thing Adam and Eve do is to put a name on everything.

"Whore" and "slut" are largely interchangeable in the colloquial, actual prostitutes are typically called "prostitutes".