Female character with problems keeping a lover

[LadyVer]

Well, yes, but I was speaking to what I thought is reality, not to anything you're bringing up now.

This happens to me so often on the boards--especially in discussing the general differences between men and women. I make a comment on what I think exists in reality, and posters suddenly start responding like I think that's the way it should be--or that I espouse the positions I point to as what I think is reality. These are two different things.

If this is yet another "discussion" going there, I'm out. My observation is that I think, in general, women overanalyze relationships and men underanalyze them--leading to problems on both ends.

Everyone has their own opinions and ways of responding to comments, sr. You will continue to be disappointed if everyone doesn't respond the way you think they should. The issue with relationships, and people, is that they're too unpredictable, and generalizations aren't truths.

 

[sr71plt]

Everyone has their own opinions and ways of responding to comments, sr. You will continue to be disappointed if everyone doesn't respond the way you think they should. The issue with relationships, and people, is that they're too unpredictable, and generalizations aren't truths.

You responded by arguing against a position I didn't take. There's really no up side to that. Just both combative and irrelevant.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Marriage vows are rather clear and explicit as to the scope of work and standard operating procedures tho fully half of married people cut corners and otherwise blowoff the marriage contract. People bring to marriage the same attitudes and practices that characterize every other aspect of their lives; that is, they perform like immature teens.

 

[LadyVer]

You responded by arguing against a position I didn't take. There's really no up side to that. Just both combative and irrelevant.

I'm not trying to argue with you, sr. I'm just responding to your comments. I'm not much for arguing. However, I do like to say what I think. If you have a hard time with that, maybe you should either not respond to my comments or just put me on ig.

I'm usually easy to get along with, but I draw a line when someone assumes or states something I never said or implied. And, again, you're making this personal when this is just a thread on a porn forum and we don't even know each other.

 

[LadyVer]

Marriage vows are rather clear and explicit as to the scope of work and standard operating procedures tho fully half of married people cut corners and otherwise blowoff the marriage contract. People bring to marriage the same attitudes and practices that characterize every other aspect of their lives; that is, they perform like immature teens.

That, and relationships are just hard. Personally, there are several things I didn't sign up for that I received in marriage, and sometimes there are no easy answers or solutions. I think most people just muddle through and do the best they can.

 

[sr71plt]

I draw a line when someone assumes or states something I never said or implied.

Yeah, me too. This started with you posting a "however" argument to a post of mine that indexed something completely off the wall from what I was posting. I posted that I agreed with what you said, but that you "however" statement had no relevance to what I had posted. If you don't want to be argumentative about this, just drop it. I don't think you're going to "get it."

If you post again to it, then it IS you wanting to be argumentative.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, yes, but I was speaking to what I thought is reality, not to anything you're bringing up now.

This happens to me so often on the boards--especially in discussing the general differences between men and women. I make a comment on what I think exists in reality, and posters suddenly start responding like I think that's the way it should be--or that I espouse the positions I point to as what I think is reality. These are two different things.

If this is yet another "discussion" going there, I'm out. My observation is that I think, in general, women overanalyze relationships and men underanalyze them--leading to problems on both ends.

Although there are going to be exceptions on either side of the fence, I think this isn't a bad way to look at it.

I also think marriage is not taken anywhere near as seriously as it used to be. back years ago divorce was a terrible thing, children of divorce felt terrible there was some shame involved on behalf of the husband wife.

Today? It's a damn joke. People get divorced way too quickly without putting any effort into changing because its no longer a big deal.

Remember years ago when people got divorced there would be some "time off" (well unless one already was cheating and someone to go to) The woman would stay single for awhile and worry about her kids, the father would be gunshy...

Today people get separated and are living with someone else within weeks. They run to match.com and just start again.

George Carlin had a routine about life being a series of dogs. For many today its a series of spouses.

When father daughter dances have to be changed to child with partner and half the girls there aren't with their father because no one knows where he is, that is pretty damn telling as to how seriously relationships are taken today on both sides.

 

[LadyVer]

Yeah, me too. This started with you posting a "however" argument to a post of mine that indexed something completely off the wall from what I was posting. I posted that I agreed with what you said, but that you "however" statement had no relevance to what I had posted. If you don't want to be argumentative about this, just drop it. I don't think you're going to "get it."

If you post again to it, then it IS you wanting to be argumentative.

Again, I wasn't arguing with you, and if you don't like what I say, instead of arguing and telling me what I said and what you don't like about it, ignore me. If you choose to see me as arguing with you, I can't prevent that. But I am tired of your constant need to argue with anyone that doesn't agree with you and then re-framing what others have said to make you look like the victim.

 

[PennLady]

I don't know, Sr. I'm no expert on relationships, but I think if both men and women thought more deeply about their partners and marriage before they married, there would be fewer divorces and fewer happlily married but sexually unsatisfied marrieds or sexually satisfied but unhappily marrieds. Marriage should come with a mandatory course on human relations and communication with the course certificate stating that there are no guarantees, proceed at your own risk.

No doubt more and thorough discussions before marriage with qualified counselors would help a lot of people. However, I have to agree that in general, it's women who try to change men more than the opposite. Whether this is biological or environmental -- and I figure it's likely a combination -- I don't know.

I read a lot of advice columns, for example, and it's far more common for this situation to come up as a woman saying a guy hasn't changed the way she thought he would. The flip side is when a woman writes in and says that a guy is trying to change her, and she doesn't like it or understand it, and that's often a signal of control and possibly abuse on the part of the man. It doesn't seem usually to be abuse on the part of the woman, though I'm sure sometimes it is.

Anyway, this is all to say that I rarely read a letter from a man complaining that a woman is trying to change him, or that a woman is not changing as he thought she would. Which probably shows, more than anything, that men and women approach these situations differently.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That, and relationships are just hard. Personally, there are several things I didn't sign up for that I received in marriage, and sometimes there are no easy answers or solutions. I think most people just muddle through and do the best they can.

I agree that most muddle through, what puzzles me is why they do it. But this was Hamlets puzzlement, too. Why do people accept their burdens? I suspect we're all lost at sea.

I have a new neighbor. Her husband died and then their daughter died. She seems rudderless and without a compass or map. She was working in the yard today when it started to rain, I went out and told her, GO INSIDE. She did. So I understand that life knocks us on our asses until the healing starts and the repairs are made.

 

[sunandshadow]

generalizations

As writers, I think we have to work with generalizations and stereotypes when trying to imagine what will seem realistic or unrealistic to a group of readers we've never met. Which is not to say we have to create stereotypical characters, no. But we are aware that the most surprising aspects of our characters are those which will need the most explanation and support in backstory or through the eyes of another character psychoanalyzing the first to get them to make sense to readers.

 

[LadyVer]

I agree that most muddle through, what puzzles me is why they do it. But this was Hamlets puzzlement, too. Why do people accept their burdens? I suspect we're all lost at sea.

I have a new neighbor. Her husband died and then their daughter died. She seems rudderless and without a compass or map. She was working in the yard today when it started to rain, I went out and told her, GO INSIDE. She did. So I understand that life knocks us on our asses until the healing starts and the repairs are made.

Sometimes life does feel rudderless...

As writers, I think we have to work with generalizations and stereotypes when trying to imagine what will seem realistic or unrealistic to a group of readers we've never met. Which is not to say we have to create stereotypical characters, no. But we are aware that the most surprising aspects of our characters are those which will need the most explanation and support in backstory or through the eyes of another character psychoanalyzing the first to get them to make sense to readers.

I hear what you're saying. I wasn't saying generalizations shouldn't be used, especially in writing. What I was trying to say was that sometimes other things and issues are involved in relationships besides what could be classified as a generalization, although I could see where generalizations would be helpful in writing or anything else.

 

[sr71plt]

To add a bit to the overanalyze and underanalyze generalization. I think women tend to overanalyze the relationship and feel men, in general, are insensitive for not doing the same (except that, strangely, they write off the men who do as weak and pansies) whereas men are happily oblivious to analysis of a relationship at all. When they're getting the basics, they think everything is golden all around.

I'm not just making this up, by the way. Read either Deborah Tannen's You Just Don't Understand or John Gray's Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus.

 

[sr71plt]

I just now ran across this paragraph in Anne Tyler's Noah's Compass, and had to laugh:

Women had this element of treachery, Liam had discovered. They entered your life under false pretenses and then they changed the rules. Underneath, Barbara had turned out to be just like all the others.

 

[lovecraft68]

I just now ran across this paragraph in Anne Tyler's Noah's Compass, and had to laugh:

Women had this element of treachery, Liam had discovered. They entered your life under false pretenses and then they changed the rules. Underneath, Barbara had turned out to be just like all the others.

Maybe if the average man thought beyond eating, sports, and getting his cock sucked they might not be so easily manipulated.

I've had many people tell me that a lot of my ideas, reactions to things and how I deal with certain things are more along the lines of how a female would handle it rather than a male.

Amongst the "men's men" I get referred to as whipped or being a faggot(one thing that gets me referred that way is if we are together I let my wife drive because she enjoys it and I don't care who drives, but apparently I have somehow given up rights to my balls because I don't mind)

But what I came to the conclusion of is that, those "female" traits are simply reacting in a way that sees the entire picture rather than just what I want at that given moment.

In other words I think beyond "me gotta eat now oh, look boobies!"

More men should give thinking a shot, it would save them from those evil "womens" and their machinations.

Men are only manipulated by women because they let themselves be and it gives them something to whine about.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Maybe if the average man thought beyond eating, sports, and getting his cock sucked they might not be so easily manipulated.

I've had many people tell me that a lot of my ideas, reactions to things and how I deal with certain things are more along the lines of how a female would handle it rather than a male.

Amongst the "men's men" I get referred to as whipped or being a faggot(one thing that gets me referred that way is if we are together I let my wife drive because she enjoys it and I don't care who drives, but apparently I have somehow given up rights to my balls because I don't mind)

But what I came to the conclusion of is that, those "female" traits are simply reacting in a way that sees the entire picture rather than just what I want at that given moment.

In other words I think beyond "me gotta eat now oh, look boobies!"

More men should give thinking a shot, it would save them from those evil "womens" and their machinations.

Men are only manipulated by women because they let themselves be and it gives them something to whine about.

Based on 64 years experience with females I say this: If the good lord didn't give them pussies theyd pretty much be useless. They use pussy for everything, and it has more utility than string.

Males don't expect the bullshit when theyre young but after a while only a fool doesn't expect it. Females are congenitally incapable of straight-talking and fair-play. If you wanna loyal friend, get a dog; if you want pussy, get a woman.

 

[lovecraft68]

Based on 64 years experience with females I say this: If the good lord didn't give them pussies theyd pretty much be useless. They use pussy for everything, and it has more utility than string.

Males don't expect the bullshit when theyre young but after a while only a fool doesn't expect it. Females are congenitally incapable of straight-talking and fair-play. If you wanna loyal friend, get a dog; if you want pussy, get a woman.

And men are?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And men are?

Men are insufferable dix with nice cars.

 

[lovecraft68]

Men are insufferable dix with nice cars.

Nah, these days the "real men" drive luxury suv's for their penis extensions Nothing makes me roll my eyes more than a d-bag in a Cadillac Escalade. Yeah, you're really going to off rode in that.

You know years ago men were the "straight shooters" but PC took care of that. The men of this generation's straight shot could take all four left turns around the block and hit them in the back of the head.

Honesty and straight forwardness has been destroyed by politically correct assholes who apologize for everything.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Nah, these days the "real men" drive luxury suv's for their penis extensions Nothing makes me roll my eyes more than a d-bag in a Cadillac Escalade. Yeah, you're really going to off rode in that.

You know years ago men were the "straight shooters" but PC took care of that. The men of this generation's straight shot could take all four left turns around the block and hit them in the back of the head.

Honesty and straight forwardness has been destroyed by politically correct assholes who apologize for everything.

When I measure a man I observe how he treats dogs and kids and his mom, and how early he gets to work, and who gets his paycheck.

 

[sr71plt]

Just for the record, I drive a Subaru Forester.