Fat Perceptions.

[English Lady]

But the moose is happy.

It's all relative, anyhow (and not in an incestual way). I grew up always thinking I was "fat" simply because I'm tall (5'8") and have a large frame. Plus, the coconuts are hefty and the hips are curvy. So no matter how much I dieted or exercised, I just wasn't gonna get any smaller than a size 12. Once, I did manage to starve myself into a size 10 (if I didn't breathe), but I looked downright anorexic. My basketball coach actually referred me to the school nurse/counselor.

I know I've looked better than I do right now -- for age reasons, if nothing else -- but I've never FELT better. I feel sexier than ever before and I'm lovin' it. The visual isn't my primary sense -- and I've learned to trust that it isn't many others' either.

When I think about having sex in my late teens/early twenties, I have memories of always worrying how I was perceived visually. I think it really hampers one's enjoyment. Sex didn't become super enjoyable until I shed that neurosis. In other words, LOOKING "hot" (per those big hairy moose cock sucking societal standards) does NOT equate to BEING "hot."

Exactly!

 

[RebeccaLeah]

Wow....just found this thread.....Thanks EL. Now, where to start?

I hate my breasts, 36/38DDD they are too fucking big. The rest of me I don't mind too much even though I'm completely disproportionate, the legs I love, but the boobs are over the top. They don't make many sexy bras, or any bras for that matter, my size....Vickies, like most, only has up to DD if even that and big girl stores don't have triple until you get into the 40s....I am the akward inbetween for everything. Not quite mainstream size but not plus sized.

At the same time, I will admit I am shallow. I need physical attraction for sexual desire, other stuff too, but that has to be there. Going back to the girl in your original picture, I think she's beautiful. I think of the word fat and I think of the stuff they suck out when someone gets liposuction or of the actor that plays Vernon Dursley in Harry Potter. I think of people that take up most or all of a bus stop bench on their own. Extremly obese I guess...I say as the US hits an "obesity epidemic"

I think you can be big and be healthy and be sexy as hell. I'm nowhere near the 'ideal' weight for my body (btw, thanks Colly for the mention of how much breasts weigh ), but I'm not worried. I would worry if I couldn't get up the stairs or if I couldn't walk to the grocery store anymore. Then I would worry about what kind of shape I was in.

The rest of the world can bloody well my ass.

 

[impressive]

Recently, I attended a function at my kids' elementary school. There were perhaps 400-500 parents/family members in the auditorium. I was kinda bored, so I was people watching. I started counting those who'd fit the big hairy moose cock sucking societal standard of beauty (not just figure, but face as well). Less than 1% would have "qualified."

 

[Evil Alpaca]

Wow....just found this thread.....Thanks EL. Now, where to start?

I hate my breasts, 36/38DDD they are too fucking big. The rest of me I don't mind too much even though I'm completely disproportionate, the legs I love, but the boobs are over the top. They don't make many sexy bras, or any bras for that matter, my size....Vickies, like most, only has up to DD if even that and big girl stores don't have triple until you get into the 40s....I am the akward inbetween for everything. Not quite mainstream size but not plus sized.

At the same time, I will admit I am shallow. I need physical attraction for sexual desire, other stuff too, but that has to be there. Going back to the girl in your original picture, I think she's beautiful. I think of the word fat and I think of the stuff they suck out when someone gets liposuction or of the actor that plays Vernon Dursley in Harry Potter. I think of people that take up most or all of a bus stop bench on their own. Extremly obese I guess...I say as the US hits an "obesity epidemic"

I think you can be big and be healthy and be sexy as hell. I'm nowhere near the 'ideal' weight for my body (btw, thanks Colly for the mention of how much breasts weigh ), but I'm not worried. I would worry if I couldn't get up the stairs or if I couldn't walk to the grocery store anymore. Then I would worry about what kind of shape I was in.

The rest of the world can bloody well my ass.

I'll start . . .

 

[RebeccaLeah]

Recently, I attended a function at my kids' elementary school. There were perhaps 400-500 parents/family members in the auditorium. I was kinda bored, so I was people watching. I started counting those who'd fit the big hairy moose cock sucking societal standard of beauty (not just figure, but face as well). Less than 1% would have "qualified."

God, try visiting Boulder Colorado, it will depress you in a way you never thought possible. Fucking health freaks. Grrrr....

EA - That mouth of yours is going to have a lot to live up to after the wedding.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

God, try visiting Boulder Colorado, it will depress you in a way you never thought possible. Fucking health freaks. Grrrr....

EA - That mouth of yours is going to have a lot to live up to after the wedding.

Let's not lump health freaks in with Narcacists (sp?). Wanting to get slim the right way for health reasons is a noble goal. Of course, a little petty preening doesn't hurt.

(Doin' some tongue exercises, just in case.)

 

[RebeccaLeah]

Let's not lump health freaks in with Narcacists (sp?). Wanting to get slim the right way for health reasons is a noble goal. Of course, a little petty preening doesn't hurt.

(Doin' some tongue exercises, just in case.)

They're one and the same around there.

Good idea I'm sure.

 

[Liar]

by my own drandards I am curvy and sexy.

Then you're exactly the right size.

I, as most people I guess, have an approximate image of what physical perfection looks like for either gender. And it's a whole lot more to grab onto than the typical catwalk model.

But really, the question is, how big a part of the whole attraction thing does this make up? Not much. Poise, voice and attitude counts for much more. I've met people that I have found totally irrisistible, but that society's standards, for whatever reason, would cassify them as unattractive. Too big, too small, too assymetric, too different. That's because Mr Society Standard only look at freezeframe snapshots of people, and doesn't take into account the rest of the attraction spectra.


Personally, I'm a yo-yo. I gain and lose about 10 to 20 kilos every year. In spring I lose weight, so that in the summer I'm at my smallest, and then I gain it all again when the temperature starts to drop. It's a really visible change, and I can't control it more than marginally. If I diet and workout like mad, it happens. If I eat Big Macs and watch reruns...same thing, I will melt away with the snow.

Funny thing is, that people who first got to know me in the summer tend to think of me as in generally good shape. People who got ot know me in the winter thinks of me as 'that big guy'. I'm ok with both. I'm in good health, and it was many years since I thought I had to accomodate myself to other people's view of what I should look like. But it's kind of funny what perceptions others can have of you, and it shows that it's not about actual measurments but about the image they carry with them of me.

Which makes me think, the weird images that I carry with me attached to the personalities here... I wonder how they would change if I actually met y'all. If they in fact would change at all.

 

[Liar]

Wanting to get slim the right way for health reasons is a noble goal.

Thing is, what most people precieve as slim these days is not really healthy for most people. Only for the few who happen to have that body type.

Or so says my friend the nutritionist student. I have ny clue myself.

#L

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

How many pounds is 10 or 20 kilos?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

How many pounds is 10 or 20 kilos?

Are you talking heroin???

 

[impressive]

How many pounds is 10 or 20 kilos?

http://www.convert-me.com/en/

 

[she_is_my_addiction]

Are you talking heroin???

Am I?

 

[Liar]

How many pounds is 10 or 20 kilos?

Isn't pounds a currency?


Ok...
According to Google, 10 kilograms = 22.0462262 pounds.

 

[English Lady]

Then you're exactly the right size.

I, as most people I guess, have an approximate image of what physical perfection looks like for either gender. And it's a whole lot more to grab onto than the typical catwalk model.

But really, the question is, how big a part of the whole attraction thing does this make up? Not much. Poise, voice and attitude counts for much more. I've met people that I have found totally irrisistible, but that society's standards, for whatever reason, would cassify them as unattractive. Too big, too small, too assymetric, too different. That's because Mr Society Standard only look at freezeframe snapshots of people, and doesn't take into account the rest of the attraction spectra.

First off -Thank you

Also you're so right about size being such a small (chuckles) part of attraction.

And healthy is different for every person. You are obviouslyhealthy at all the different weights throughout the year and everyone has a different level of healthiness. Thin folks can be just as unhealthy as fatter folks.

It should be health which is on folks minds if they want to loose or gain weight. Nothing else.

society/the media have such a narrow band of what is attractive that it really is unreasonable to expect everyone to look like that.

It'd be bloody boring too actually. Variety IS the spice of life.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Wow....just found this thread.....Thanks EL. Now, where to start?

I hate my breasts, 36/38DDD they are too fucking big. The rest of me I don't mind too much even though I'm completely disproportionate, the legs I love, but the boobs are over the top. They don't make many sexy bras, or any bras for that matter, my size....Vickies, like most, only has up to DD if even that and big girl stores don't have triple until you get into the 40s....I am the akward inbetween for everything. Not quite mainstream size but not plus sized.

At the same time, I will admit I am shallow. I need physical attraction for sexual desire, other stuff too, but that has to be there. Going back to the girl in your original picture, I think she's beautiful. I think of the word fat and I think of the stuff they suck out when someone gets liposuction or of the actor that plays Vernon Dursley in Harry Potter. I think of people that take up most or all of a bus stop bench on their own. Extremly obese I guess...I say as the US hits an "obesity epidemic"

I think you can be big and be healthy and be sexy as hell. I'm nowhere near the 'ideal' weight for my body (btw, thanks Colly for the mention of how much breasts weigh ), but I'm not worried. I would worry if I couldn't get up the stairs or if I couldn't walk to the grocery store anymore. Then I would worry about what kind of shape I was in.

The rest of the world can bloody well my ass.

You, are a knock out. ll the way around.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Well, I've just got to jump in and play devil's advocate.

From what everyone's saying, I guess you're all happy with your bodies if only society would butt out. Is that right? Because it sounds like it's all society's fault.

It's a good question as to whether advertizers shape tastes or merely reflect them. Do we see thin models in ads because advertizers are trying to make us unhappy with ourselves, or do advertizers use thin models because that's what people want to see?

In any case, I think just blaming 'society' for our own dissatisfaction is kind of useless. Society is us.

---dr.M.

 

[sincerely_helene]

I've watched a couple of matches lately and people inthe crowd have been chanting "You fat bastard" at this guy (Wayne Rooney)

http://www.manutdpics.com/thumbnail.php?mediaid=41280


And it just astounds me that they can say that about a well built guy who has to be in peak fitness to play his game.

Also we know from Joe's thread thatdove are doing the campaign for real beauty and there is a poster which says Fat or fit for the lady in the attached picture below. My mind boggles at how anyone could think she looked fat!!

So does the perception of "fat" affect you when you're writing? do you keep to the media's perfect thin image when you write your characters or do you not think about it at all?

What do you think is "fat" and could you write a sexy story about a "fat" person? (we've had a thread on that before I think)

Also do you think the perception of fathas changed in the past few years and does that reflect in the stories you read here or write yourself?

I can't say I have ever gone out of my way to write in a "fat" character before. I'm like the Dr. by way avoiding too much description aside from hair and eye color. I bore of too much detail, and I like readers to be able draw their own mental images.

My lastest story does involve a pregnant young girl, but that is only because it was a profound part of the dream in which the story is based.

 

[impressive]

Well, I've just got to jump in and play devil's advocate.

From what everyone's saying, I guess you're all happy with your bodies if only society would butt out. Is that right?

Actually, I'm happy with my body whether society butts out or not. I was merely pointing out that my body does not "match" the Cosmo standard.

Do I wish I looked like Yamila? Nope. I don't want to look like anyone else. I'm me -- and me is damned good as is.

 

[English Lady]

Well, I've just got to jump in and play devil's advocate.

From what everyone's saying, I guess you're all happy with your bodies if only society would butt out. Is that right? Because it sounds like it's all society's fault.

It's a good question as to whether advertizers shape tastes or merely reflect them. Do we see thin models in ads because advertizers are trying to make us unhappy with ourselves, or do advertizers use thin models because that's what people want to see?

In any case, I think just blaming 'society' for our own dissatisfaction is kind of useless. Society is us.

---dr.M.

Dr M -You make a very good point. Who does shape whatthe media show? if it didn't sell things they'd not use the thin models they do. But how much of that wanting to see thin models comes down to the media constantly showing us those images?

fashion folks say clothes hang better on thin figures...so we see the fashionable clothes first on teeny tiny models.

Maybe society has come to expect these visuals as the "norm" and now it's hard for anyone to break from that mould.

I think the media have a big part to play in what society expects.
I think society as a wghole takes their expectations from what they seeon telly,in magazines, in the movies and base "the norm" around that.

Now why the images in films/ magaizines etc went towards more angular, thin women and away from the curvier ones i don't know but i've noticed the same thing happening with men now. Least over here in the UK you rarely see a big guy, you see lean, thin beautiful men alot more in ads etc.

 

[rgraham666]

It works the other way as well.

I'm rail thin, with arms and legs that would fit on a person six inches taller than my six feet. I look awkward just sitting there.

I've gotten very sick over the years of seeing some woman look at me, and watching all interest flee.

Guys have a ridiculous physical standard they have to live up to as well.

And beauty can sometimes be a burden.

Many of the strippers I've known I've known were very beautiful by 'society's standards'. They got to like me because I didn't let their beauty get in the way of treating them like people. Most guys would treat them as if the woman's beauty and sexual availability were the same thing.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Well, I've just got to jump in and play devil's advocate.

From what everyone's saying, I guess you're all happy with your bodies if only society would butt out. Is that right? Because it sounds like it's all society's fault.

It's a good question as to whether advertizers shape tastes or merely reflect them. Do we see thin models in ads because advertizers are trying to make us unhappy with ourselves, or do advertizers use thin models because that's what people want to see?

In any case, I think just blaming 'society' for our own dissatisfaction is kind of useless. Society is us.

---dr.M.

Ever wear high heels doc? I'm not talking about cowboy boots, but a nice pump with a four inch heel? How bout a corset? Panty girdle? I'll assume not

Society has an extremely narrow definition of what's beautiful. It fluctuates along with what's popular to some degree, but it's made in Paris on the runways and in New York on the design boards. There is a very powerful reason for it and that reason is money. If everyone could be beautiful, then there would be no money made in plastic surgery clinics, jenny craig would be broke, and the revolving door of fashion wouldn't matter.

The ideal of beauty is expensive to attian. Women buy diet books, diet plans, health club memberships, etc.etc. in an attempt to be that ideal. The bussiness of keeping beauty unattianable to the masses is a multi-million dollar one. My mother was quite a looker in her time. Today she would be considered heavy, but in that time period she was dead on. Curiously, most men who see pictures of her think she was hot, including men of my generation. Enough commented when I was young and it was embarassing to make the impression on me that what most fellows want hasn't changed all that much.

"Society" at least in the case of my gripe, is Madison Ave. Keeping women (an incresingly men) hyperconcious of their looks is a bussiness. Big bussiness. It's sad, but a fact that we all buy into it to some degree. Unless you just don't interact with pop culture to any degree you are bombarded with it.

A supermodle once said something teribly profound. She said she felt sorry for any woman who tried to look as good as she did. It sounds arrogant, until you see the rest of the quote. Basically, she said I get up before dawn, have a personal beautician do my make up, a personal stylist do my hair, my meal comes for a board certified dietician, prepared by a world renowned chef. The clothes I wear are all tailored to fit perfectly. The photos are set by an expert in lighting to only show my best and they are touched up by an artist before you ever see them.

Long ago the ideal was a 19 inch waist, women wore corsets because no normal person could get it. In the 80's it was heroin waif chic. No matter what it is, it will never be what 95% of us are. And it will never again be something as natural and easily attianable as Rubens or Marylin. It isn't determined by what it takes to get a man's (or woman's) interest, it's determined by what you can sell people who are making an effort to get it.

Advertisers don't respond to what people want, if they did they would go out of bussiness fast. They are paid to make you want what their employers are selling. And their idea of beauty is just as much a product as your McChickenteryiaki.

-Colly

 

[English Lady]

Well said Colly

 

[Liar]

Do we see thin models in ads because advertizers are trying to make us unhappy with ourselves, or do advertizers use thin models because that's what people want to see?

Would I be too bold if I said that it's probably both? And that the two doesn't contradict? media machine or no media machine, there have always been people around us that we have found more attractive than other. And those who are not like the most attractive ones use them as an example to strive for in grooming themselves more attractive. Media may enhance and exaggerate this desire by slelcting a few 'perfect' samples and mass distibute them as the ideal, thus making it harder to come close to it for most people. And advertisers might exploit this to sell more grooming products. But the pattern has been around, probably since we jumped around in the trees.

What is considered attractive in different times and cultures is another story. In Reuben's days the, well, Reubenesque were considered the visual cream of the crop. Why? Because fat people were rich people and rich people meant a better future for your genes, if you got to mate with them.

Today, another body shape along with fashion and other accesories indicates who the most suitable shag for our genes might be. I believe that medias role is not to define it per se, but to exaggerate the importance of it.

#L

 

[SeaCat]

Guilty, Guilty as charged. (At least for some things. )

Yes I do write with a lot of description of my characters. I haven't put in an obese person yet, but that is because of my own feelings about it. Are my characters perfect? I reckon that depends on your idea of perfection. Mostly they reflect what my wife and I look like. They're not overly large, nor are they overly small. (Except in one or two cases.) Myself I am five foot six inches tall and weigh in at one hundred and fifty pounds. (68 Kilo or 10.7 stone for those who live in Europe.) My wife is the same height, but weighs about twenty five pounds less. I'm not hung like a moose, and she doesn't have breasts that will open automatic doors at twenty paces. In other words we're kind of normal.

I have played with women who are larger than my wife, as well as women who are smaller than my wife. You know? I like the larger ones better, although each size does have it's good points and bad points.

The sexiest thing about a woman is not her size. It is how she feels about how she looks. If she is happy about her size, then this shows and is extremely sexy. If she isn't happy this too shows, and is an incredible turn off.

Dr. In regards to your posting about the standards of beauty and who sets them. I don't know who sets them, whether it is Hollywood, the clothing manufacturors, or who. All I do know is they need to be hung by their mouselike testicles. Whoever decides on these standards have destroyed too many lives.

Rg. I like your attitude towards the strippers. Unfortunately too many of them I have known have gone for the enhancements and have ruined their looks. (As well as their health.)

Cloudy, English Lady, and all the other women of Lit.If you are happy with the way you look, then piss on the rest of the world and their perceptions. (You're lucky I don't know where you live, you wouldn't be safe from my roaming hands and tongue. )

So that being said, here's a for the Ladies of Lit. May you be happy with who you are.

Cat