Explaining terms?

[ChloeTzang]

You don't know a Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich?

Now peanut butter and jelly is an Americanism. What we often call jelly, they call jam. It’s like Bangers and Mash. Who knows what Bangers and Mash is? I’d never heard of them before I went to England.

Ai’m fookin’ telling ya, twere loik a fookin’ furrin language, mate.

 

[RetroFan]

I must get out more, because I didn't know what a HSP was, either.

I'm with the others - if jargon needs explanation, either don't use it or somehow explain it in context, if it's that vitally important, which it usually isn't. Explanatory notes in fiction, though? Not something I'd ever do.

Same for me, I'm from Melbourne and I've never heard the term HSP before. Perhaps it is region specific, although Australian slang tends not to vary too much between the states or territories despite the large geographic area.

I've used Australian slang terms in many of my stories set in Oz and for more obscure Australian slang I'll usually try and work a description of what it is into the narrative.

For example, in one of my stories a loser guy gets dumped by his girlfriend and goes to the liquor store to drink himself into oblivion, and I mention that he buys goon cask wine. If the readers were all Australian I could just use the term goon and everyone would know what I meant, but because a lot of readers are from overseas I added in cask wine to explain what it was as the term goon is only used in Australia.

In another story ibises feature quite prominently. The characters refer to the birds as 'bin chickens' - a uniquely Aussie term as the Australian White Ibis like to go through bins and trash scavenging for food - but I refer to the birds as being ibises beforehand so overseas readers know what type of bird this is. If I just referred to them as bin chickens, people might think there were actual chickens going through bins and scavenging garbage in Australia.

 

[SamScribble]

It’s like Bangers and Mash. Who knows what Bangers and Mash is?

Oh, come on, Chloe! Everyone knows what Bangers and Mash is. It's one of the staples of life!

 

[jaF0]

What we often call jelly, they call jam.

Old Jazz tune lyrics ... 'it must be jelly 'cuz jam don't shake like that'.

 

[jaF0]

My understanding (since we're explaining things):

Jelly; just juice, jelled. No solid bits.
Jam: Some bits of fruit, but not a lot.
Preserves: More fruit than not.

 

[Rustyoznail]

TBH, I wasn’t sure what a HSP was either until you gave me the full name. Too long out of Melbourne....

If I can get the general gist without getting out of the story, I’m happy. In a novel I’m ok with footnotes but obviously that’s no good here...

 

[KeithD]

If I can get the general gist without getting out of the story, I’m happy. In a novel I’m ok with footnotes but obviously that’s no good here...

I think just the opposite. Notes in short stories here OK (as having looser requirements). Notes in published novels, generally not OK.

 

[BrokenSpokes]

Odd lady out

I think I’m of a different mind that most here. I am okay with not every reader knowing exactly what every single word means. Context clues can provide a lot of hints/direction, but I think it’s okay to leave some (or many) readers to go look things up if they are curious or lost.

I had a brief conversation in one of my stories that most of the lines were in untranslated Pashto and I felt no need to provide a translation. You could get the gist, but not the details and I was fine with just leaving my reader to get the flavor without the explicit meaning.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Don't. Just don't.

If a term needs an explanation, bearing in mind Literotica is read all over the world, then use something else.

One of the earlier chapters mentions that my protagonist has a tattoo of a 3-geodesic degree-2 digraph on her ribs, so I suspect that particular ship has already sailed I don't know if it's a category thing, but my readers mostly seem to be happy to learn new words now and then.

Clarity is a good thing, but it's not the only consideration. If it was, I'd be writing everything in US English and restricting myself to US settings, since that's what the greatest percentage of readers here will be comfortable with.

And I wouldn't be writing this protagonist at all, since her idiosyncrasies affect how she talks. Smoothing all that off to make the language more generic runs against the characterisation.

 

[SaintCordelia]

If it's an idiosyncrasy of a particular character, then I'd just make a quick note at the start of the chapter or weave in context clues when it's used. I avoid notes within stories since I hesitate to interrupt the flow of the story for any reason. You could write your characters "shared kebab, a HSP from the market down the street" and it might be clear enough.

I am using bits of Russian in one of my works in progress, and will probably make a note at the top and then weave in with context. In the end, it's a stylistic choice, and using local vernacular is really neat if you can make it work for readers.

 

[oggbashan]

I can see where you are coming from but I think you can do both - have an idiosyncratic character and be clear in English (US or UK, doesn't matter).

If you have to use an unusual term either expand the contraction or have some context to explain it.

I had comments on one of my recent stories -

1. What is a Ha-Ha? I thought that was known. It wasn't.

2. My English character used 'OK' in 1916. Comments were that she shouldn't have. But Americanisms were in use in the higher parts of UK society from the 1890s - maybe not in common speech but certainly in the circles that my character would have known. My knowledge and research were beyond what people expected.

 

[Bramblethorn]

^^^ I'd think some kind of dialog between the characters might work.

'How did it come to be called that?'
'Well, it was back during ...'

Doesn't have to be long, maybe a few lines. Not enough to be distracting.

None of the above. Somehow elegantly explained within the context of the narrative or dialogue.

These are valuable techniques that I've used elsewhere in the story (including the tattoo that I mentioned above) and I did consider them here, but I couldn't find a way to make them work for this particular passage.

Both of the characters already know what a HSP is, so it would feel fake to have them explaining it to one another. A couple of lines further down I do mention that chips are involved, but to properly unpack it for a generic audience would require clarifying what "chips" means in Australia and putting the "halal" part into context, and I can't see how to do that without bogging things down in a chapter that's already running pretty long on exposition.

(The lazy solution is just to switch the HSP out for something else, but that feels like admitting defeat.)

 

[KeithD]

2. My English character used 'OK' in 1916. Comments were that she shouldn't have. But Americanisms were in use in the higher parts of UK society from the 1890s - maybe not in common speech but certainly in the circles that my character would have known. My knowledge and research were beyond what people expected.

Webster's dates the origin of "OK" to 1839, so you can tell "comments" to go hang (or do their research before "correcting").

 

[Bramblethorn]

I must get out more, because I didn't know what a HSP was, either.

Same for me, I'm from Melbourne and I've never heard the term HSP before. Perhaps it is region specific, although Australian slang tends not to vary too much between the states or territories despite the large geographic area.

I'm also in Melbourne, which is where I learned the term!

I suspect this is more of a generational/cultural thing than a regional difference (except for South Australia, who as usual have their own terminology and call it an "AB" for some reason). HSPs became popular about four years ago, and they're very much a cheap-hot-filling-takeaway thing, so depending on your dining habits you might not have encountered them, but just about any kebab shop will have HSPs.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

I have never heard the term HSP before reading this thread, but I can understand from the context that it is some type of food item, maybe like a BLT or PB&J.

Do I really need to know more than that? How important is this detail to the plot of the story?

If the title of the story is "HSPs in the Park", or the plot hinges on exactly what they ate, then maybe an opening note would be useful. Otherwise, just make sure the context provides the reader with what they need to know.

I agree with this. If what they eat is integral to the story, then spell it out. If not either leave it without a note, or reference something more generic.

I still wouldn't know what it was.
Halal to me is some type of Arabic food ritual.

Halal:Muslim :: kosher:Jewish

But, I'd have no idea what a "halal snack pack" was, or why it would count as comfort food.
"Kebab and chips"* seems clear enough to me.

*in which you'd have to further decide if you wanted to clarify "chips" for the part of your audience who are going to think of the thinly sliced crispy potatoes most of the Anglophone world calls "crisps"

 

[NotWise]

I'm also in Melbourne, which is where I learned the term!

I suspect this is more of a generational/cultural thing than a regional difference (except for South Australia, who as usual have their own terminology and call it an "AB" for some reason). HSPs became popular about four years ago, and they're very much a cheap-hot-filling-takeaway thing, so depending on your dining habits you might not have encountered them, but just about any kebab shop will have HSPs.

The Wikipedia article on "Halal Snack Pack" makes it sound delicious -- once I figured out that the chips weren't what I call chips. They mentioned that it's similar to "Carne Asada Fries," and I was suddenly hungry.

Their article fails to explain why folks in Adelaide call it "AB."

 

[PennameWombat]

I recently got called out by a reader over things like V.P, CEO and P.A. Rightfully so. As they pointed out, not everybody would know what they stood for. I would now write them out.

PS your poll didn't give a 'write it out' option.

I’ve not had reason to use those terms, I did have a character in an Oz-set story who was a ‘Managing Director’ and I spelled that out, since I knew ‘MD’ would be a major issue. Many Americans wouldn’t quite understand ‘Managing Director’ (not really used there) but I had another character refer to her as “the big boss” so felt that and the rest of the context was fine.

But your second point is why I’m not responding to the poll. That’s the only option I’m choosing.

Same for me, I'm from Melbourne and I've never heard the term HSP before. Perhaps it is region specific, although Australian slang tends not to vary too much between the states or territories despite the large geographic area.

I've used Australian slang terms in many of my stories set in Oz and for more obscure Australian slang I'll usually try and work a description of what it is into the narrative.
<snip>

Ah, good. I’m a yank transplanted to Sydney since 2011... And I’ve never heard nor seen HSP. First seeing this thread I thought it was a plot by the natives against me to not know it

If it’s absolutely vital to have exactly HSP, I mean, it’ll be the end of civilisation without it, work out an explanation in the text. No notes, no glossary (if I need a glossary I’m passing unless it’s a scientific paper.) I use (mostly) Americanisms but have thrown in some Aussie trivia and such. Most of it is understandable by context or so far as I know ‘common’ (I saw ‘OK’ mentioned in this thread, I mean, ‘Ok’ or ‘okay’ is confusing?)

 

[Rustyoznail]

I'm also in Melbourne, which is where I learned the term!

I suspect this is more of a generational/cultural thing than a regional difference (except for South Australia, who as usual have their own terminology and call it an "AB" for some reason). HSPs became popular about four years ago, and they're very much a cheap-hot-filling-takeaway thing, so depending on your dining habits you might not have encountered them, but just about any kebab shop will have HSPs.

I'm assuming there's local differences. A kebab here is slightly different from the one in Shepparton. Maybe that's a way to identify what it is.

"This is different. I've never had grated cheese on my HSP. Lamb yes, tabouleh sure, but cheese?"

 

[SisterJezabel]

^^^ I'd think some kind of dialog between the characters might work.

'How did it come to be called that?'
'Well, it was back during ...'

Doesn't have to be long, maybe a few lines. Not enough to be distracting.

My understanding was it was made popular by a politician who, sadly fell from grace, despite being a young up and comer.

 

[SamScribble]

1. What is a Ha-Ha?

As my father used to say: A Ha-Ha is an amusing way of keeping the sheep off the terrace. Enough said.

 

[SisterJezabel]

...For example, in one of my stories a loser guy gets dumped by his girlfriend and goes to the liquor store to drink himself into oblivion, and I mention that he buys goon cask wine...

I was questioned as to what cask wine was- as apparently it's called wine in a box in other parts of the globe. Goon can be quite pejorative as well as it initially was a term of insult suggesting someone was an idiot. Now, whilst many wine connoisseurs would argue that only idiots drink cask wine, it is also a term highly liked with Australian Aboriginal people.

Locally, I am unable to purchase cask wine or flagons of port or sherry before 4pm, initially introduced to try and stop alcohol consumption by itinerant populations of First Australians.

 

[NotWise]

My understanding was it was made popular by a politician who, sadly fell from grace, despite being a young up and comer.

There's a great Australian tradition of meat in a box?

Who's meat? Who's box?

 

[SisterJezabel]

The Wikipedia article on "Halal Snack Pack" makes it sound delicious -- once I figured out that the chips weren't what I call chips. They mentioned that it's similar to "Carne Asada Fries," and I was suddenly hungry.

Their article fails to explain why folks in Adelaide call it "AB."

I'm craving one now and contemplating getting dressed and going and buying one for lunch!

South Australians are a weird bunch and I lived there for some time. They are proud that they are the only state that never accepted convicts and whilst they pretend to be progressive, cultured and artsy-fartsy with their festivals and such, I suspect they wanted to remove the Halal aspect from it. AB means either afterbirth, abortion or atomic bomb, depending on who you talk to!

 

[SisterJezabel]

I'm assuming there's local differences. A kebab here is slightly different from the one in Shepparton. Maybe that's a way to identify what it is.

"This is different. I've never had grated cheese on my HSP. Lamb yes, tabouleh sure, but cheese?"

When I was at uni in Melbourne in the very early 90s, we never knew of kebabs- they were a NSW thing. We had souvlaki from the fish and chip shop or went to Lygon St for pizza after rolling out of Nortons or the Clyde!

 

[PennameWombat]

[Deleting... somehow my browser didn’t show me the first post. Sorry!]