Erotica writer who wants to learn about BDSM by experience

[Sexy_Scarlett]

The world of BDSM has fascinated me for a while now and I've written stories containing some bondage and discipline, but I have no experience in this world at all. I'm too afraid to go to some kind of BDSM club, but online forums or potentially a remote dom might help. You can read and critique my work here if you want: BooksieSilk.com/Sexy_Scarlett or contact me if you'd like to take on a complete novice, but very curious 22 year old submissive.

**UPDATE: not at all interested in this anymore and I'm leaving Lit and I've already had my pic thread deleted.

 

[LWulf]

Some might disagree with me, but I think you should jump in feet first and leave the real world behind.

...Okay, maybe not do a cannonball, and maybe just wade in from the shallow end first. But the best way to write something is from first hand experience. Even just for yourself, you will always question "is that how it REALLY is?" even if it's just a quiet voice in the back of your mind. A lingering doubt might color your words.
Plus, who knows if an online Dom/me isn't just getting their concepts after reading "The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty" and not from real life experiences.

Have you posted any of your work here? I don't like going to unknown websites...

 

[Bramblethorn]

The world of BDSM has fascinated me for a while now and I've written stories containing some bondage and discipline, but I have no experience in this world at all. I'm too afraid to go to some kind of BDSM club, but online forums or potentially a remote dom might help. You can read and critique my work here if you want: BooksieSilk.com/Sexy_Scarlett or contact me if you'd like to take on a complete novice, but very curious 22 year old submissive.

Are you looking for this from a "want to experience RL BDSM" angle, or a "want material for stories" angle? Be aware that what makes for popular BDSM fiction and what makes for a good RL experience are usually different things.

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

Are you looking for this from a "want to experience RL BDSM" angle, or a "want material for stories" angle? Be aware that what makes for popular BDSM fiction and what makes for a good RL experience are usually different things.

Very, very true!

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

Some might disagree with me, but I think you should jump in feet first and leave the real world behind.

...Okay, maybe not do a cannonball, and maybe just wade in from the shallow end first. But the best way to write something is from first hand experience. Even just for yourself, you will always question "is that how it REALLY is?" even if it's just a quiet voice in the back of your mind. A lingering doubt might color your words.
Plus, who knows if an online Dom/me isn't just getting their concepts after reading "The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty" and not from real life experiences.

Have you posted any of your work here? I don't like going to unknown websites...

LWulf, I'd love to jump in feet first and I agree that writing from experience is certainly helpful. I frequently question whether I'm just regurgitating stuff I've read or whether my imagination is actually coming up with something realistic.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I have the courage or the time to jump in feet first. I'm just dipping my toes in the water for now

About my writing, I submitted the first few chapters of my novella "Never Alone" on here and it's 'pending'. I don't particularly like the design of this website so if it gets posted, great, but it not, I'm not going to fight with it. Sorry. I promise Booksie/BooksieSilk is a legit, popular site for posting writing, but you'd have to just take my word for it.

I'm also on Smashwords if you've ever heard of that.

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

Are you looking for this from a "want to experience RL BDSM" angle, or a "want material for stories" angle? Be aware that what makes for popular BDSM fiction and what makes for a good RL experience are usually different things.

Bramblethorn, your comment is intriguing. I like to think I have the latter part handled. Not to sound arrogant, but people seem to like my stories so I don't necessarily need material. I think what I'm looking for is more depth and experience. My stories feel fake and unconvincing to me sometimes. Yeah I can write a hot, steamy scene but it's difficult to get inside the characters' minds.

A lot of Erotica is just sex and kink, but what I find interesting is the psychology of it all. The idea of allowing someone else to control me is scary, but the trust involved in that kind of relationship is fascinating. So personally, I think I disagree. The mindset, the psychology, and the bond makes for interesting fiction and I'm guessing those things make for a good real life experience too.

I'd love to hear what you think makes for popular fiction versus what makes for a good RL experience because perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Perhaps the essay in my signature would give you some ideas -- different ways to think about BDSM.

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

That was very interesting, Stella Omega. Thank you for a different perspective.

 

[CutieMouse]

I'd love to hear what you think makes for popular fiction versus what makes for a good RL experience because perhaps I'm wrong.

IMO, the biggest difference between popular fiction and real life experience, is that RL experience is that RL tends to seem... Ordinary, in comparison to fictional accounts.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In BDSM fiction, as in most any sort of erotica, the most important element is this;

The couple can read each other's minds in bed. Nobody can do that IRL!

Everything works right, the first time out... no one ever says "OMG untie me quick, I've got a cramp in my leg!"

hehe

 

[Netzach]

If you're kinked, then do it, you'll love it. If this looms large in your imagination because it gets you off, rock on.

If not, and you really are just looking for more vividness - you're not going to get the stuff we get out of it, you'll probably get LESS vivid.

If that's it - just have someone edit what you're unsure of like any good writer, and fact check with experts.

Don't bow down to realism when you have imagination.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Bramblethorn, your comment is intriguing. I like to think I have the latter part handled. Not to sound arrogant, but people seem to like my stories so I don't necessarily need material. I think what I'm looking for is more depth and experience. My stories feel fake and unconvincing to me sometimes. Yeah I can write a hot, steamy scene but it's difficult to get inside the characters' minds.

A lot of Erotica is just sex and kink, but what I find interesting is the psychology of it all. The idea of allowing someone else to control me is scary, but the trust involved in that kind of relationship is fascinating. So personally, I think I disagree. The mindset, the psychology, and the bond makes for interesting fiction and I'm guessing those things make for a good real life experience too.

I'd love to hear what you think makes for popular fiction versus what makes for a good RL experience because perhaps I'm wrong.

The psychology and the bond between participants is definitely important IRL, but the nature of those things isn't quite the same. Take all this with an "in my experience" disclaimer:

Negotiation and consent. As far as I can tell, fictional BDSM mostly follows the "Domly Dom Does What S/He Wants And Subby Sub Learns To Love It" model.

That doesn't work well in real life, unless it's framed by some negotiation about what Domly Dom is allowed to impose on Subby Sub. BDSM is as close as I've ever been IRL to a feeling of telepathy, and there are times when I can do something - like running a knife over my lover's body without warning - and know exactly what effect it'll have on her. It's an exhilarating feeling, maybe the best part of the experience. But it takes time to get to that level of connection, and it still takes a lot of talk to maintain it. (And occasionally we still get it wrong.)

Real subs often have issues like wrist injuries, lube allergies, psychological triggers, stuff that they just don't find sexy, and risks they're not willing to take. (Doms too, for that matter.)

Power imbalance: this is a biggie. In a lot of BDSM fiction, Subby Sub is in a position of weakness from the start. Domly Dom might be the extremely-wealthy boss who can fire Subby Sub and see that they never work again - or maybe the noble who has the clout to get away with rape if Subby Sub were to refuse.

IRL, healthy D&S involves one person voluntarily giving up power to the other. It's only consent if you had the freedom to say no, and fictional BDSM often lacks that freedom. (In real-life BDSM you can certainly enjoy the fantasy of having no choice, but that layer of make-believe exists by mutual agreement.)

This is something that causes me a bit of discomfort at the moment: I'm earning a lot more than my lover, and I would very much like to help her out with the bills here and there, but both of us see her independence as important.

Pathologisation: one of the things a lot of BDSMers resent about 50SoG, the idea that an interest in kink is the sign of a damaged person who - at best - needs to be healed and eventually cured of it. There may be some who do fit that description, but there are plenty who don't.

Mundane stuff: noses that start itching just as the knots are tied, suddenly-full bladders, Mormons knocking at the door. Did I mention bills that need to be paid? It helps to have a sense of humour.

All that said, RL BDSM is awesome and wonderful and fun, and I think there's room for fiction that has some of these more real-life aspects to it. I've tried to express a little of that in the stuff I post here (although the BDSM angle is mild and not the major theme) and nobody seemed to mind. But looking at what's big in the sales lists, most of it seems to be the escapist version.

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

Bramblethorn,
Your conception of fictional BDSM is the main reason I want to probe deeper into this world and break stereotypes like that. In my experience, you are very right. Most Erotic writing is very predictable and generally has a happy, no fuss ending. The connection that you talk about is what I crave to understand, more likely by asking people on these forums but I’ve entertained the idea of learning-by-doing. Your comments about power imbalance are very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

It took me a second to puzzle out the “Fifty Shades” acronym, but it is certainly a theme in BDSM fiction to present the main characters as damaged. I admit I am guilty of it, but I don’t think I do it because that’s really what I think about BDSMers. Readers always want an answer to “why?” about everything and a rocky past is often a good answer. Also, people like to empathize with characters. Most of my protagonists are damaged and I write everything from Erotica to SciFi & Fantasy to Young Adult Romance so it’s not necessarily about the genre.

By the way, I read the first installment of “A Stringed Instrument” and I must say, I enjoyed the warning at the top and the closet scene was wonderfully steamy. I look forward to reading more sometime and hopefully continuing to converse with you.

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

IMO, the biggest difference between popular fiction and real life experience, is that RL experience is that RL tends to seem... Ordinary, in comparison to fictional accounts.

What fun is reading fiction if it's not more extraordinary than real life? Reading is a way to escape the ordinary and I think that goes for any genre.

 

[Him15]

Sent you a pm, if you would like to chat about anything of these things, scarlett

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

In BDSM fiction, as in most any sort of erotica, the most important element is this;

The couple can read each other's minds in bed. Nobody can do that IRL!

Everything works right, the first time out... no one ever says "OMG untie me quick, I've got a cramp in my leg!"

hehe

Maybe people can't read each other's minds in real life, but isn't this connection that people talk about almost like being able to read minds? Or don't people in these kinds of relationships at least have a good idea as to what their partner is thinking? Is that psychological bond just extremely exaggerated in fiction or is there some truth to it?

I'd love to hear some people weigh in on this one.

Maybe my stories need more OMG-I've-got-a-cramp moments if that will make them more realistic

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

If you're kinked, then do it, you'll love it. If this looms large in your imagination because it gets you off, rock on.

If not, and you really are just looking for more vividness - you're not going to get the stuff we get out of it, you'll probably get LESS vivid.

If that's it - just have someone edit what you're unsure of like any good writer, and fact check with experts.

Don't bow down to realism when you have imagination.

Thanks, Netzach. Not sure if I'm "kinked" or not. Reading and writing about these things is arousing and the concept of BDSM is extremely intriguing but vanilla sex has suited me just fine for years. Then again, maybe that's part of the reason I've decided to start browsing these forums... boredom... monotony?

I think I just want a deeper understanding of this world, especially the emotional and psychological side of things. I suppose I can get that by asking experts but learning-by-doing can be efficient...

 

[Him15]

Personally don't see adding "OMG-I-got cramp" moments as a particularly good option in an erotic story. It's just not good story telling.

In all storytelling characters actions are done for two reasons, the actions either tells you something about the character by being something they would naturally do, and that action then progresses the plot. Or the action is done as a result of the author to help further progress the fictional world.

"OMG- I-got a cramp" just for the most part doesn't illustrate or progress anything. It would be like the hero in an action movie having to stop in the middle of a giant shoot out as he has to go to the bathroom. Neither one works in any sort of serious story of their respective genres, its a human and comical moment that would break the action, destroy the suspension of disbelief writing requires and pull the reader out of the story.

It could work in a erotic comedy however as those moments are expected within that sort of genre.

 

[Netzach]

Personally don't see adding "OMG-I-got cramp" moments as a particularly good option in an erotic story. It's just not good story telling.

In all storytelling characters actions are done for two reasons, the actions either tells you something about the character by being something they would naturally do, and that action then progresses the plot. Or the action is done as a result of the author to help further progress the fictional world.

"OMG- I-got a cramp" just for the most part doesn't illustrate or progress anything. It would be like the hero in an action movie having to stop in the middle of a giant shoot out as he has to go to the bathroom. Neither one works in any sort of serious story of their respective genres, its a human and comical moment that would break the action, destroy the suspension of disbelief writing requires and pull the reader out of the story.

It could work in a erotic comedy however as those moments are expected within that sort of genre.

it just depends, it all depends. You know how Jackie Chan does these great "ow ow ow" things that make his schtick so much...better? It's a little touch of realism in non-realism that makes it great.

Generally, I'm always in favor of more experience, so if the OP wants that, again, go for it - but I do know that a lot of literary erotica I've read that puts in a lot of "real" without a real reason and just makes me think "blah, I like my life better."

 

[Him15]

Yes, but I would consider most jackie chan parts to fall under the genre of comedic action. And thus those little realism "ow ow ow" moments help to show the audience that even though he is flipping through the air in something that could only be choreographed, it reminds the audience that its still the real world and thus allowing them to relate.

Its using humor to establish the world as real. but I feel the goal of most erotica is to show some sort of fantasy in which case such a stark and forced influx of the real world could wreck the fantasy.

And even if you want to display your world as real there is certainly better ways oh legs cramping. People saying the wrong things, pushing at poor times, etc

it just depends, it all depends. You know how Jackie Chan does these great "ow ow ow" things that make his schtick so much...better? It's a little touch of realism in non-realism that makes it great.

Generally, I'm always in favor of more experience, so if the OP wants that, again, go for it - but I do know that a lot of literary erotica I've read that puts in a lot of "real" without a real reason and just makes me think "blah, I like my life better."

 

[Sexy_Scarlett]

Personally don't see adding "OMG-I-got cramp" moments as a particularly good option in an erotic story. It's just not good story telling.

In all storytelling characters actions are done for two reasons, the actions either tells you something about the character by being something they would naturally do, and that action then progresses the plot. Or the action is done as a result of the author to help further progress the fictional world.

"OMG- I-got a cramp" just for the most part doesn't illustrate or progress anything. It would be like the hero in an action movie having to stop in the middle of a giant shoot out as he has to go to the bathroom. Neither one works in any sort of serious story of their respective genres, its a human and comical moment that would break the action, destroy the suspension of disbelief writing requires and pull the reader out of the story.

It could work in a erotic comedy however as those moments are expected within that sort of genre.

It was more of a joke than anything. Although the desire to make my stories more realistic is certainly an actual goal. None of my current stories really have room for comedy or shtick so don't worry.

The more interesting part of that conversation, in my opinion, is the concept of a psychological and emotional bond in a D/S relationship if you care to weigh in on that one.

 

[LWulf]

It was more of a joke than anything. Although the desire to make my stories more realistic is certainly an actual goal. None of my current stories really have room for comedy or shtick so don't worry.

The more interesting part of that conversation, in my opinion, is the concept of a psychological and emotional bond in a D/S relationship if you care to weigh in on that one.

I think the thing is, if you want to add "realism" then you almost HAVE to add comedy (or at least irony). In real life people think they are such towers of strength and decisiveness, but we all have little doubts and question what we do and therein lies the comedy (or irony)

This is one reason my stories tend to have a main character who is an antihero. They aren't perfect, they might strive to be but who doesn't?

Well I suppose some people could give a toss...

Edit: of course that is seeing the spectrum from the Dominant POV (submissives wouldn't see themselves as strength and decisiveness, but again the irony there is that submissive must make the decision to submit...)
Some people also don't have little doubts and question what they do, but those people are called pathological.

 

[Stella_Omega]

"OMG I have a cramp" can illustrate something incredibly erotic in a kink story-- especially the kind of story our friend Scarlett wants to write

Does the top untie the bottom and if so, is someone disappointed? Does bottom say; "please, tie me up again, finish your pleasure," and does this prove to top that bottom really DOES submit themself?

Does the top refuse to untie the bottom? If so-- how does the bottom handle this added discomfort while dealing with everything else that's going on? That could be some very dark eroticism.

Or maybe, top carefully and skillfully massages the cramp away thus impressing us all with further evidence of their super magnificence.

Mishaps, in other words, are an opportunity for character arc to happen, and make a more three-dimensional portrait. (It's such a shame that E.L. James ran the "adorably clumsy" trope into the ground, cause that was some endearing shit)

 

[Him15]

Yep I am certainly arrogant enough to think I know everything about a second topic,

Well like any character relationship or for that matter personal one the emotional bond is going to display differently and develop from a different place for each character.

So those emotional bonds and how they form and display themselves to the reader are going to entirely depend on what and who the characters are and what type of relationship they are pursuing. For example the bonds will be different between say a sub who is a successful women who is looking to give up control as a means to escape the stress and demands of her busy work life while in the bedroom; and a sub who is looking for an older man to teach her things.

However a common element in the D/s relationship or at least a healthy one is trust. The sub trusts the dom to take control and the dub trusts the dom to give it up. for whatever individual reasons their are in a D/s relationship that emotional bonding sense of trust is a key element.

It was more of a joke than anything. Although the desire to make my stories more realistic is certainly an actual goal. None of my current stories really have room for comedy or shtick so don't worry.

The more interesting part of that conversation, in my opinion, is the concept of a psychological and emotional bond in a D/S relationship if you care to weigh in on that one.

 

[Him15]

thats a phenomenal point which I moronically overlooked. Unfortunate occurrences can provide great character and plot progression in how the characters choose to handle them.

"OMG I have a cramp" can illustrate something incredibly erotic in a kink story-- especially the kind of story our friend Scarlett wants to write

Does the top untie the bottom and if so, is someone disappointed? Does bottom say; "please, tie me up again, finish your pleasure," and does this prove to top that bottom really DOES submit themself?

Does the top refuse to untie the bottom? If so-- how does the bottom handle this added discomfort while dealing with everything else that's going on? That could be some very dark eroticism.

Or maybe, top carefully and skillfully massages the cramp away thus impressing us all with further evidence of their super magnificence.

Mishaps, in other words, are an opportunity for character arc to happen, and make a more three-dimensional portrait. (It's such a shame that E.L. James ran the "adorably clumsy" trope into the ground, cause that was some endearing shit)