Enron's Ken Lay to be indicted soon.

[zipman]

Report: Ken Lay to be indicted

Prosecutors said to seeking fraud charges against ex-Enron chairman within two weeks.

HOUSTON (Reuters) - U.S. prosecutors are expected to ask a federal grand jury to indict former Enron Corp. chairman Ken Lay within two weeks on charges related to the company's 2001 collapse, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The Houston Chronicle, citing unnamed sources, said Lay likely would face fraud charges similar to those filed earlier against former Enron chief executive office Jeffrey Skilling and former Enron chief accounting officer Richard Causey.

Those two have been indicted on multiple charges including insider trading, securities fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy and lying about Enron finances.


For the rest of the story:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/19/news/newsmakers/enron_lay.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

~~~~~~~~~~~

I've been waiting for Lay to get indicted for quite a while.

Hopefully, the prosecutors will hit him with everything they possibly can!

 

[Weevil]

Boy I bet he spends a few really hard years doing minimum security time before getting out and going right back to a life of luxury.

 

[ruminator]

I think it'll be more interesting to see how it affects the election. These are some of the most secretive issues that have been kept out of the mainstream media.

This might bring out more on the Energy Task Force with Cheney, Lay's long history with GWB and possibly even some curious deals with the Taliban......


.......then he'll get 2 years, suspended the same day Martha gets 20.

 

[ksmybuttons]

There was an article in today's paper about the Snohomish County PUD. They invested $100,000 and transcribed some tapes that no one else bothered with and guess what they found?

http://www.snopud.com/?page=107&17_article=234

 

[Ham Murabi]

I think it'll be more interesting to see how it affects the election. These are some of the most secretive issues that have been kept out of the mainstream media.

This might bring out more on the Energy Task Force with Cheney, Lay's long history with GWB and possibly even some curious deals with the Taliban......


.......then he'll get 2 years, suspended the same day Martha gets 20.

What might be even more interesting would be finding out how many overnight stays Lay had in the White House, and how much he paid for the privilege. But all those overnight stays ended when Bush II was elected.

 

[ruminator]

What might be even more interesting would be finding out how many overnight stays Lay had in the White House, and how much he paid for the privilege. But all those overnight stays ended when Bush II was elected.

You're right.

Send him the bill.

I'll easily concede that he goes back to Clinton too, but doesn't some of his history with GWB concern you?

 

[Ishmael]

It's about time Zip, it's about time.

The governtment is getting around to doing it's thing. And under the laws that existed at that time.

He's NOT being prosecuted under any of the "Knee Jerk" laws that congress passed in the aftermath.

But perhaps it's well worth noting that the market responded with unhindered speed in the punishment of Enron. And EVERY other company found to be not quite on the 'up and up'. Enrons stock, and Enron itself, was in the toilet within days of the news being broken to the public.

Considering that Enron was punished IMMEDIATELY by the market, and that NO NEW law was required to bring this rascal to the bar of justice it leaves one to wonder exactly what purpose congress served in this issue?

Are the new laws gong to prevent another Enron? No, they won't even make it less likely that some greedy or less than ethical corporate officers won't do it again. Given the financial stakes there will always be a few weak individuals that will give into the temptation to either bilk the public, or try to buy time to prevent a 'train wreck', thereby causing an even bigger wreck.

I read the stats recently and out of the thousands and thousands of publically listed companies the numbers of those that are caught defrauding the investors is in fractions of percentages. That some are really big, like Enron, is going to happen. Statistics tell us that too.

But to reitirate. The worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him. By the investors and the peers of other Companies that don't and didn't engage in similar fraudulent activities. No one will return his calls Zip, and for a man used to "high office", that's about as bad as it can get. Prison and fines are just icing on the cake.

Ishmael

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Hope they nail those cock suckers have heard any of the tapes that they made man they thaught it was a joke to screw people.

 

[SIN'til8?]

Well said Ish, but it won't play with the mob. They actually WANT the Christians and lions stuff...

 

[Ishmael]

Well said Ish, but it won't play with the mob. They actually WANT the Christians and lions stuff...

Yeah, I know. But it makes for poor spectacle. Throwing dead Christians to toothless lions may be PC, but it's just soooooooooo boring.

Ishmael

 

[Byron In Exile]

It's about time Zip, it's about time.

The governtment is getting around to doing it's thing. And under the laws that existed at that time.

He's NOT being prosecuted under any of the "Knee Jerk" laws that congress passed in the aftermath.

But perhaps it's well worth noting that the market responded with unhindered speed in the punishment of Enron. And EVERY other company found to be not quite on the 'up and up'. Enrons stock, and Enron itself, was in the toilet within days of the news being broken to the public.

Sell Microsoft.

 

[mystic_maiden32]

Boy I bet he spends a few really hard years doing minimum security time before getting out and going right back to a life of luxury.

couldn't agree with you more!

 

[GeorgeWBush]

I would like to see them take everything they have no matter if it is under there wifes name unless they can proof that she had it before they got married.

 

[Ishmael]

Sell Microsoft.

Did that YEARS ago.

Ishmael

 

[zipman]

It's about time Zip, it's about time.

The governtment is getting around to doing it's thing. And under the laws that existed at that time.

He's NOT being prosecuted under any of the "Knee Jerk" laws that congress passed in the aftermath.

But perhaps it's well worth noting that the market responded with unhindered speed in the punishment of Enron. And EVERY other company found to be not quite on the 'up and up'. Enrons stock, and Enron itself, was in the toilet within days of the news being broken to the public.

Considering that Enron was punished IMMEDIATELY by the market, and that NO NEW law was required to bring this rascal to the bar of justice it leaves one to wonder exactly what purpose congress served in this issue?

Are the new laws gong to prevent another Enron? No, they won't even make it less likely that some greedy or less than ethical corporate officers won't do it again. Given the financial stakes there will always be a few weak individuals that will give into the temptation to either bilk the public, or try to buy time to prevent a 'train wreck', thereby causing an even bigger wreck.

I read the stats recently and out of the thousands and thousands of publically listed companies the numbers of those that are caught defrauding the investors is in fractions of percentages. That some are really big, like Enron, is going to happen. Statistics tell us that too.

But to reitirate. The worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him. By the investors and the peers of other Companies that don't and didn't engage in similar fraudulent activities. No one will return his calls Zip, and for a man used to "high office", that's about as bad as it can get. Prison and fines are just icing on the cake.

Ishmael

You've got to be joking.

Do you seriously believe that "the worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him?"

The fact that people won't return his calls is somehow punishment enough for abusing the trust people had in him or the incredibly negative impact that the Enron scandal had on our economy?

That's simply so ludicrous that I can't even fathom how you could type it unless it was a joke.

 

[ruminator]

You've got to be joking.

Do you seriously believe that "the worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him?"

The fact that people won't return his calls is somehow punishment enough for abusing the trust people had in him or the incredibly negative impact that the Enron scandal had on our economy?

That's simply so ludicrous that I can't even fathom how you could type it unless it was a joke.

I was also wondering where the punishment of Enron was directed. It looked like the ones who suffered the brunt of the punishment were the low level investors, employees and energy consumers in many states. Others too, but at the expense of protecting the fortunes of those at the top.

 

[Ishmael]

You've got to be joking.

Do you seriously believe that "the worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him?"

The fact that people won't return his calls is somehow punishment enough for abusing the trust people had in him or the incredibly negative impact that the Enron scandal had on our economy?

That's simply so ludicrous that I can't even fathom how you could type it unless it was a joke.

Hmmmm, I'm used to better considered responses from you.

Please quote and post the statement from my post that says he shouldn't be punished. Or just the one where I indicated that I thought he'd been punished enough. Or maybe the statement where I indicated that I wasn't happy that he's going to be brought to task by a court of law. Anyone of those three MIGHT justify your response.

But you can't, so there is NO justification. Is there Zip?

But moving along, do you think he's trembling in his boots over the fines and prison time? Nah, he's not Zip. Men like him thrive on power and prestige. Those things he's already been stripped of.

Even if the government strips him of all his assets, and they should, those assets won't even pay the attorneys that have been liquidating the residue, let alone make a single investor whole again. That is NOT to say it shouldn't happen, merely that it's a phyrric victory.

And more than likely prison won't change him, unless like Michael Milkin or Chuck Colson before him, he finds "Jesus" and comes out to form a Non-profit Corp. to 'preach the gospel' thereby turning repentence into a profitable life style.

No Zip, he's already in hell. What he gets from the court, he deserves. But he's already in his self-made hell.

Ishmael

 

[zipman]

Hmmmm, I'm used to better considered responses from you.

Please quote and post the statement from my post that says he shouldn't be punished. Or just the one where I indicated that I thought he'd been punished enough. Or maybe the statement where I indicated that I wasn't happy that he's going to be brought to task by a court of law. Anyone of those three MIGHT justify your response.

But you can't, so there is NO justification. Is there Zip?

But moving along, do you think he's trembling in his boots over the fines and prison time? Nah, he's not Zip. Men like him thrive on power and prestige. Those things he's already been stripped of.

Even if the government strips him of all his assets, and they should, those assets won't even pay the attorneys that have been liquidating the residue, let alone make a single investor whole again. That is NOT to say it shouldn't happen, merely that it's a phyrric victory.

And more than likely prison won't change him, unless like Michael Milkin or Chuck Colson before him, he finds "Jesus" and comes out to form a Non-profit Corp. to 'preach the gospel' thereby turning repentence into a profitable life style.

No Zip, he's already in hell. What he gets from the court, he deserves. But he's already in his self-made hell.

Ishmael

When you posted "The worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him," certainly does sound like you thought he was punished enough. If I misunderstood that then my bad.

However, I totally disagree that the loss of power and prestige is the worst punishment that he could get. I think the loss of his freedom in prison will be much worse for him.

Personally, I hope the government makes an example of him and punishes him to the full extent of the law. Anyone that betrays the public trust as he and others in Enron did deserve to be held totally accountable for those actions.

 

[Ishmael]

When you posted "The worst punishment that Ken Lay, and others like him, could ever recieve has already been visited on him," certainly does sound like you thought he was punished enough. If I misunderstood that then my bad.

However, I totally disagree that the loss of power and prestige is the worst punishment that he could get. I think the loss of his freedom in prison will be much worse for him.

Personally, I hope the government makes an example of him and punishes him to the full extent of the law. Anyone that betrays the public trust as he and others in Enron did deserve to be held totally accountable for those actions.

Well we can agree to disagree. We're both projecting onto Ken Lay and only Ken Lay know's what he fears the most.

Zip, the parties whose actions I find totally reprehensible are more or less going to walk away unscathed by the law.

As bad as Ken Lay and his cronies were they could NOT have gotten away with a single mis-deed without the complete cooperation of their "Certified Auditors", Anderson. Both Anderson, and Anderson Consulting have been punished by the market but as far as legal remedies they will be virtually untouched.

Had Anderson reported the bogus bookkeeping when it occured, it is very likely that Enron would still be around. Minus Ken Lay and all of the other officers, but still a corporate entity and still of some value to the investors.

You have to remember that Enron's book 'cooking' went back several years and was covered by their auditors. Like cancer, early discovery can usually lead to cures. By covering up the bogus bookkeeping Anderson insured that the end would be a total collapse leaving nothing for anyone.

If I were to have the choice of who to make an example off, by far, Andserson would recieve the brunt of my ire.

Ishmael

 

[ruminator]

I think the problem with Enron goes much deeper and further back than book cooking. They were involved in business in places that had serious consequences for our foreign policies.

Part of the US relations with the bin Ladens, other foreign investors and the Taliban helped fuel the series of events that contributed to 9/11.

 

[Ishmael]

I think the problem with Enron goes much deeper and further back than book cooking. They were involved in business in places that had serious consequences for our foreign policies.

Part of the US relations with the bin Ladens, other foreign investors and the Taliban helped fuel the series of events that contributed to 9/11.

OMG, reading more shit Rum? Have to of been.

Enron's biz was energy furtures. Later other "commodities", but primarily energy futures. What in the hell does that have to do with the Taliban or the bin Laden family?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Ishmael

 

[ruminator]

OMG, reading more shit Rum? Have to of been.

Enron's biz was energy furtures. Later other "commodities", but primarily energy futures. What in the hell does that have to do with the Taliban or the bin Laden family?

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Ishmael

No reading, but I did find some cool pictures and stuff.

The Dabhol plant in India in 1992 is pertinent for more than one reason. It was also at the root of a delivery problem for affordable fuel in that area. This is also a source of litigation for Enron and for Cheney.

The pipeline in Afghanistan was another hurdle that affected foreign policy through numerous administrations. The last stab at negotiations fell through subsequent to the attack of 9/11.

We're not to the secret energy policy yet.

 

[Ishmael]

No reading, but I did find some cool pictures and stuff.

The Dabhol plant in India in 1992 is pertinent for more than one reason. It was also at the root of a delivery problem for affordable fuel in that area. This is also a source of litigation for Enron and for Cheney.

The pipeline in Afghanistan was another hurdle that affected foreign policy through numerous administrations. The last stab at negotiations fell through subsequent to the attack of 9/11.

We're not to the secret energy policy yet.

So, what's your point? You have none.

Now you have Cheney tied to Enron. I thought it was Haliburton? Must behorrible to have to grasp at straws.

Even I have past business ties to the bin Laden family. So what?

The Afghani pipeline debacle is well documented. Had nothing to do with Enron as far as it went.

The bottom line is that big biz is all inter-related in some respect.

I'm waiting for you to bring up Citi-bank and Enron and the ties to the Clinton administration. His Treasury secretatry in particular. Now there is a real smoking gun.

Instead you hint at some "secret" energy policy. Another one of those conspiracies you're so fond of. Hate to be the one to break the news to you Rum, but it doesn't exist. Can't be done. Kinda like the paranoid ultra-right where everyone talks about "black helicopters" but no hard evidence.

It all belongs in the same category as alien abduction.

Ishmael

 

[ruminator]

So, what's your point? You have none.

Now you have Cheney tied to Enron. I thought it was Haliburton? Must behorrible to have to grasp at straws.

Even I have past business ties to the bin Laden family. So what?

The Afghani pipeline debacle is well documented. Had nothing to do with Enron as far as it went.

The bottom line is that big biz is all inter-related in some respect.

I'm waiting for you to bring up Citi-bank and Enron and the ties to the Clinton administration. His Treasury secretatry in particular. Now there is a real smoking gun.

Instead you hint at some "secret" energy policy. Another one of those conspiracies you're so fond of. Hate to be the one to break the news to you Rum, but it doesn't exist. Can't be done. Kinda like the paranoid ultra-right where everyone talks about "black helicopters" but no hard evidence.

It all belongs in the same category as alien abduction.

Ishmael

Haha.....that's good Ish.

If it wasn't a problem it wouldn't be a secret, now would it?

Why would Cheney be guarding it so closely if there wasn't anything to hide? I easily admitted that Enron's problems spanned other administrations.


The real smoking gun is the fucking one that's killing people. There's an intelligent conversation to be had about Enron's involvement to foreign policy that's helped lead to our invasion of Iraq. That's the smoking gun that needs to be investigated.

edited to add
We could start with Enron's manipulation of the energy markets to gouge Californians, if that would be easier to wrap your mind around.

 

[Ishmael]

Haha.....that's good Ish.

If it wasn't a problem it wouldn't be a secret, now would it?

Why would Cheney be guarding it so closely if there wasn't anything to hide? I easily admitted that Enron's problems spanned other administrations.


The real smoking gun is the fucking one that's killing people. There's an intelligent conversation to be had about Enron's involvement to foreign policy that's helped lead to our invasion of Iraq. That's the smoking gun that needs to be investigated.

edited to add
We could start with Enron's manipulation of the energy markets to gouge Californians, if that would be easier to wrap your mind around.

Let's look at what you're suggesting here Rum.

Unless you're willing to assume that Cheney is everywhere at all times implementing this 'secret' plan, there is no secret.

He, Bush, anyone in the administration are forced to act through a bureaucracy. A bureaucracy made up of many people charged to carry out the policies of the administration. That's how plans are translated into action. As soon as any action takes place, there is no secrets to be kept. It's all out in the open.

Even the issuing of a policy sets into motion a host of bureaucrats translating that policy into detailed plans of implementation. The paper trail is huge as is the number of people involved. And the greater number of these people are bureaucrats. Not political appointees, bureaucrats. Many are Democrats, some are Libertarians, some are Autocrats and some are Anarchists.

So you are proposing that the entire energy policy of the US is operating under 'secret' plans known only to a select few. And that Dick Cheney is the leader of this cabal of individuals who are single handedly implementing these plans? Sorry, can't buy into that little fantasy.

I have no doubt that there are all sorts of secret plans buried in the bowels of the government. Even plans to invade the British Isles should that become a neccessity. Most are contingency plans in the event that certain things transpire that only people that are paid to think about such things think about. But having plans and putting those plans into action are two entirely different things.

Ishmael