Eminem

[Melody_lane]

Re: FUCK YOU

First off do not feel sorry for my Godson. He is a intelligent young boy with a mother who loves him more than life itself, a godfather who is willing to die for him and his father who is in heaven looking down at him with love.

Second of all I believe that the child is intelligent enough to make his own choices. I know if I did not get him the CD the bootleg man around the corner would sell it to him for $5 bucks no questions asked. So if anyone is gonna get in his ear it is going to be something I feel he can handle. The fact of the matter is you do not get it because you are not from where we are from and you have not been through what we have been through so fact of the matter is you do not know Jack shit what you are talking about. And the next time Melody you want to talk about my godson, I WILL NOT BE SO GODDAMN POLITE.

Temper, temper.
I do feel sorry for your godson. Obviously you don't know a thing about the psychology of children. You may well in fact love him, you just aren't expressing that love in a positive way. You're fucking him up and you seem to think it was funny from your first post on the subject. Kids are impressionable, even the most intelligent of them. It really doesn't matter where you are from or what you have been through. He's still a 7 year old CHILD.

Seriously pick up a book on parenting or psychology.


Oh, and thanks for being SO polite. It shows your level a maturity and intelligence...

 

[Phoenix]

MY POINT OF VIEW like it or love it. Like I give a damn

First of all if you listen to half the shit parents say in front of children you would realize that one) Children hear this shit long before they realize that Eminem is a rapper and not a colorful candy shell 2) The biggest influence to a child is his environement. If your child is from the project no matter what kind of gospel you play he is gonna experiement and it is up them how things turn out.

Another thing you ever notice that when someone does something wrong they are always so quick to blame something else. Whatever happened to taking responsiblity for your own actions. Whatever happening to DOING what YOU feel like doing. I guess in this society, it is always someone elses fault. It is always the music made me do it, the video games made me do it, the movies made me do it or some other bullshit excuse. People if you teach you children the facts of life early then this bullshit would not exist. But what do we do, we go out and we look for Goddamn scapegoats. If Andre ( my godson) was arrested I would beat his ass, why because from an early age I showed him what jail is like. He has seen what happens to the crackheads and the drug dealers he knows the consquences of his actions and he knows that no CD or video game is gonna make him go out and shoot somebody or rape somebody. How do I know that because everytime I see him and sit down and I explain the facts of life and I bust my ass to take care of him like he was my son. Why because his father would have wanted it that way.

Now I apologize for getting emotional but frankly Melody I not only lost respect for you, but I pity you. So what is next on your crusade to pass the buck. I know you are gonna BLAME CANADA ( there Ren a South Park reference for you)

 

[Renegade]

I know you are gonna BLAME CANADA ( there Ren a South Park reference for you)

Thanks! You know, I was just watching that on tape right before I got on tonight. Funny movie.

 

[Cheyenne]

Now I apologize for getting emotional but frankly Melody I not only lost respect for you, but I pity you.

I have the same feelings for you after reading your post, Phoenix. Melody is right on the money. Your poor poor godson. And the sad part is that you are probably really doing this to him out of love. How fucked up your own life must be to think the way you do.

 

[TonyG]

Originally posted by Phoenix
However I have a 7 year old Godson and I actually bought him the CD because he asked me to get it for him. Why you ask well because I believe people have the right to make their own choices.

Originally posted by Countess DeWinter
Problem is, kids until age 10-12 or so haven't developed enough to separate fantasy from reality.

I want to make a comment here.

Phoenix, I have to agree with Countess and several others, that a 7 year old really does not know how to make an intelligent choice on THIS TYPE OF TOPIC. True, he will absorb input from your talks but he only has experience knowing women from the viewpoint of a child (mother, sister, cousin, etc.) There is a big difference.

Also, how you want to raise your godson is NONE of our business. No one is trying to tell you want to do in your life. We have a tendency to speak out of caring. Please take it that way.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Wonderfully said Tony. Kudos and ovations. No, not the ovulations, those are mine, you get the ovation. No. I get the oh drat. Nevermind, have em both. Just beware, the PMS is a bitch.

 

[Melody_lane]

Re: MY POINT OF VIEW like it or love it. Like I give a damn

First of all if you listen to half the shit parents say in front of children you would realize that 1) Children hear this shit long before they realize that Eminem is a rapper and not a colorful candy shell 2) The biggest influence to a child is his environement. If your child is from the project no matter what kind of gospel you play he is gonna experiement and it is up them how things turn out.

Another thing you ever notice that when someone does something wrong they are always so quick to blame something else. Whatever happened to taking responsiblity for your own actions. Whatever happening to DOING what YOU feel like doing. I guess in this society, it is always someone elses fault. It is always the music made me do it, the video games made me do it, the movies made me do it or some other bullshit excuse. People if you teach you children the facts of life early then this bullshit would not exist. But what do we do, we go out and we look for Goddamn scapegoats. If Andre ( my godson) was arrested I would beat his ass, why because from an early age I showed him what jail is like. He has seen what happens to the crackheads and the drug dealers he knows the consquences of his actions and he knows that no CD or video game is gonna make him go out and shoot somebody or rape somebody. How do I know that because everytime I see him and sit down and I explain the facts of life and I bust my ass to take care of him like he was my son. Why because his father would have wanted it that way.
Now I apologize for getting emotional but frankly Melody I not only lost respect for you, but I pity you. So what is next on your crusade to pass the buck. I know you are gonna BLAME CANADA ( there Ren a South Park reference for you)

I wasn't aware I was blaming anyone for anything-but you for buying things for your godson that a child should not view. I agree with you that environment does play a critical role in a child's development. You are part of that environment. The things that you do and say will become the things that he thinks and does. You're setting the foundation and that is a tremendous responsibility. It is up to you, as his godfather, and his mother to instill in him a sense of morality that will guide him when he does go out and experiment. At seven he really shouldn't have the opportunity to do so. Kids need constant supervision.

Did you ever consider that in buying him material of an adult nature you are supporting it in his eyes? He would view these things as acceptable because the adults in his life are saying it is okay by giving it to him.

I also think it is bullshit to blame movies and video games and music-blame the parents that give them the movies and video games and music. Kids don't need that sh*t, anyway. The need positive love, attention, and education.

I honestly don't need your pity or respect. These are things that I believe in and I don't need approval from anyone, let alone people off the net I don't know. I just have a love of children and I do feel it is wrong to subject them to porn and violence at such a young, impressionable age. I also know that what I say probably won't make a bit of difference, as your opinions are as strong as mine. Sometimes though, it is necessary to make an attempt.

I believe you love your godson and I hope that he turns out to be a good man.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

(double post)

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 12-29-2000 at 05:42 PM]

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

A seven year old child cannot make adult distinctions between what is venting, what is art, what is dogma, what is edict, what is satire, what is manifesto, what is rage, what is reflection, what is prose and what is fundamentalist.

Phoenix, you're transferring your own experiences, hindsight, perpective, and nuance to a boy whose brain is still forming synaptic pathways to comprehend the patterns and symbols he is bombared with daily.

Your point about people taking responsibility for their own actions is well made. Eminem may sing about evil things, but that doesn't mean you have to accept that as advocacy and direction. An artist has the perogative to express how he will, not how the audience will.

You and I are old enough to understand what Eminem is doing, but I don't care how "adult" your boy seems, he is not.

I recall a girl I knew at ten who hung with her mom at all our theatre rehearsals. She heard and saw quite a bit of the backstage life, and she sounded just like an adult, and that's how we tended to treat her, not caring what bad words or behavior she heard and saw. While at a restaurant her Mom decided to have a cigarette for the first time in years, and the girl wept uncontrollably because she was terrified now that "Mommy has cancer!" We were shocked. This young, sophisticated woman vanished before us, and turned into this frightened young child, which is exactly what she was.

Melody wa showing concern and fear for your godson. But instead of acknowledging her care for someone you love, you yelled at her for hurting your feelings. It's clear that all your decisions about how to relate to this boy are based on how you wish to be treated.

Please think clearly about what you do and say in front of children, no matter how numbed to violence and anger you think they've become because of their environment. They're developing creatures. Allow them to grow.

Very, very carefuly.

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 12-29-2000 at 05:46 PM]

 

[Triatic]

Yeesh. I don't know why people still get worked up about new and offensive quote-artists-unquote. Eminem is nothing more than a slightly more disturbing incarnation of Marilyn Manson, who in turn was slightly more disturbing than...hell, I don't know, Nine Inch Nails or something. This kind of debate always turns into a debate about censorship, and the answer to that has STILL gotta be, if you don't like it, don't listen to it! Sure, it gets knotty when kids are involved, but what's the alternitive? State watchdogs taking kids away 'cause the parents cuss in front of them? Quick step to nazism from there, if you ask me...

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Nazism? Do you really think the Nazis need to be invoked here? Are you sure you aren't misreading, um, this entire thread, just a wee bit. I can't imagine who you're responding to.

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 12-29-2000 at 05:43 PM]

 

[Triatic]

Jeez, I hope not. What I'm referring to is the kind of mindset that says it's okay for one person to say what is and is not acceptable for another person to watch, read, listen to, whatever.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

LOL - Okay. I just get all hot under the collar when someone starts throwing around the whole Nazi comparison thing, because it's so totally lame. Sorry. But I don't think anyone here's advocating censorship. for adults. It's a discussion on how to introduce adult art and dialogue to children. I just couldn't see how you got from that to National Socialism.

 

[GuyJD]

OKAY FOLKS....LET'S QUIT THE "BASH PHOENIX" GAME HERE & NOW

I can remember being about 9 or 10, if not younger, when I first heard a "Cheech & Chong" album that my brother bought. I can still remember the song on the album called, "UP AGAINST THE WALL MOTHER FUCKER". What the hell's the difference between that song and the CD that Phoenix so lovingly bought for his godson? Actually, not much. Though one was comedy that was performed by a pair of "weed toting" comedians who cursed throughout the album. mocked nuns, and glorified the use of drugs and the other is hip hop performed by a gangster wanna be. My father (God bless his soul) was there to hear that segment of the album and was stunned by the lyrics. But the fact is that, though I laughingly listened to the lyrics, I was well displined enough to know not to repeat the lyrics either in or outside the house. HOLY SHIT.....I USED THAT "D" WORD.
YES....that's the whole point of the matter, DISCIPLINE. Has anyone questioned Phoenix's matter of discipline? No, it was just assumed that he was giving his godson an explicit CD without advising the CHILD the proper respect of the English language. That is, not to recite such language or attitude in the streets or in his home. Basically, teaching him right from wrong. Shit, most of us grew up watching "The 3 Stooges". Now society is calling it "too violent" for children to view. How often did we poke our friends in the eyes or grated our sister's/brother's head with a file or cheese grater? I didn't think so. It's called DISCIPLINE. We were taught it, we remembered it, we lived it. Now we are old enough to teach it to the next 2 generations under us.
And PHOENIX, don't bother reading a Psycology or Parenting book. Those dumb ass books would only advise you to do a "time out" on your kid after they have participated in a high speed chase with a stolen car. I applaud you, brother Phoenix. My godson is too old to even remember me as his Godfather. (Don't worry, I won't put the head of a dead horse on his pillow for that.) I just accept his addressing me as Uncle. I still get the respect from him as a Godson and a nephew.
KEEP THE LOVE ALIVE, AMIGOS.

[Edited by GuyJD on 12-29-2000 at 06:10 PM]

 

[Triatic]

Dixon

Fair enough...I get jumpy about some topics too. I'll try to keep it to a minimum, yeah?

 

[Renegade]

Anybody else getting the feeling that we've gone off topic here?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

No problem Tri.

Guy, you have to be kidding...I've never heard you utter such a load of poop.

 

[Melody_lane]

No problem Tri.

Guy, you have to be kidding...I've never heard you utter such a load of poop.

Good, now I don't have to say it.

 

[TonyG]

Anybody else getting the feeling that we've gone off topic here?

Actually, I think we are right on the target. I asked why girls support Eminem. I think we are getting to the deeper answer of my question.

Several people have responded that they "threw out" the CD or would not buy it for their child. I think some parents are afraid to act that way with their children. Perhaps we treat them as "grown ups" too soon. Kids are not adults and maybe we as parents should step into their lives a little more often.

Just thinking along with everyone here.

 

[Phoenix]

The Phoenix LP

First of all it seems that I have quite a few detractors and frankly feh like I give a damn. First things first, The environment that Godson lives is the same one I grew up in, the music he listens to is the same one I listen to at his age. The only difference is, I had to sneak around and do things. I had to steal the CD and in fact was almost arrested for robbery a couple of times. Fact of the matter is Andre is being raised in a similar fashion as his Godfather so a knock against him is a knock against me. Ya Dig. Second I do not need anyone's God damn pity. I am a young 19 year old African American male who graduated HS a year early and is well on his way to a degree in Journalism along with holding a steady job with Compaq. So remember this the same person you pity will the same person that passes your ass.

If anything the sneaking around and stealing stunted my mental growth more than anything. Why you ask? Well it made it tougher to trust and communicate with authority figures, because frankly I felt that they did not get it or simply would not understand. In me, Andre knows he has someone who understands someone who has been there and someone who knows what he is going through. And from simple expirience Andre has spoken to me about everything from drugs, to racism, to why violence is wrong. Andre is the closest thing I have to a son at this point of my life. His father was like my brother and his family as a whole took care of me during a very pivotal point in my life and for you and any other personal to get judgemental on the fact that I thought Andre to see the world as a whole instead of the pieces that society is not only wrong but it is completely inconprehensible. The problem with people is once again we never teach the children to be responsible. We never tell them that one person may say something and even thought no one agrees with him, it is still his undeniable right to say whatever is on his mind. Do I agree with what Mr. Mathers is saying. No do I respect him for having an opinion and the moxy to express it in the first place. Yes. Why you ask? well it is simple people are too damn PC nowadays. Everyone is so caught up in trying to stand for what they think is "right" that we forget that as people we are allowed opinions and individual feelings. Everday everyone tries to push off murders on inanimate objects. Well lemme explain this if your child is that much of a mindless drone to go out and kill 3 people without once considering the consequences of their actions, then it is your fault as a parent for not teaching them the value of life and instead you blame the CD for influencing them. Then what kind of example are YOU setting for your child.

I'll tell you what example you are setting. You are basically telling this child, everything he does is because he bought a damn CD from the Flea Market when he was five that is why he shot 3 people when he was 20. Great role model don't blame inaminate object for your children's influences, blame yourself for not being a good enough role model for them.

And thank you JD for "getting it" while everyone is searching for things to blame instead of listening.

One more thing do not show concern for my godson because he knows that no matter what there are people to turn to and will give what ever they can for him. So take your damn concern and show it to someone who needs it because Andre doesn't Dixie

 

[Renegade]

Anybody else getting the feeling that we've gone off topic here?

Actually, I think we are right on the target. I asked why girls support Eminem. I think we are getting to the deeper answer of my question.

Several people have responded that they "threw out" the CD or would not buy it for their child. I think some parents are afraid to act that way with their children. Perhaps we treat them as "grown ups" too soon. Kids are not adults and maybe we as parents should step into their lives a little more often.

Just thinking along with everyone here.

I was refering to the 'bash phoenix' thing that was going on for awhile. But yeah I see your point. I do like that this thread has become a very intelligent one for the most part. For awhile there, I thought it was going to become another "rap sucks/rap rules" type thread. I'll let you guys continue this debate now. <backs away slowly>

 

[Melody_lane]

I said my piece.
And I still don't think that I was saying to blame anything.


Oh well.
Good luck to ya.


melody

 

[Guest]

I think DCL was spot on with his comments, especially concerning Phoenix's subconsiously expecting his godson to have the hindsight and perspective that Phoenix can enjoy. No matter how bright an attentive your child is, or even if they are able to comprehend quite complex situations for their age, the simple fact is they are still young children. And as such, they are not able to be objective like teenagers and adults. Children at this age (under 10) cannot easily understand situations and issues outside their own reality and existence. Just explaining that something is wrong is not enough to teach a child that, you have to explain why it is wrong and what consequences is has concerning them. While exposing children to many things early on is a good thing, make sure it is stuff they can handle.

Oh, and GuyJD, I agree with you that many child psychology books should only be used to wipe your ass with. But to say that all books on parenting psychology are worthless is a worthless comment in itself. A close read of Piaget's theories on children's cognitive and behavioural development is something every parent ought to do.

 

[Cheyenne]

So remember this the same person you pity will the same person that passes your ass.

Not likely, son. But I applaud that you are trying. And you certainly have the fire in the belly to succeed, which is good.

For your degree in journalism to have any value though for a career, you need to work on sentence structure and spelling. I'm sure you write better than most in your peer group, but compare yourself to the authors here (and the majority are not professional writers, either). There is a gap in quality between you and them. Maybe you could practice your writing skills by contributing stories to Lit? Just a suggestion.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

double post

[Edited by Dixon Carter Lee on 12-30-2000 at 06:45 PM]