Drafts asking for feedback

[elfin_odalisque]

I'm a bit confused. In the early days after I joined, closer to the ice age than global warming, people here accepted shortish drafts on SF and gave comment if they wanted to.

Often, given the difficulty of finding an editor and the succinctness of the site's rejection advice, a newbie writer struggles to dig herself out of a hole and is dependent on some steers to get a story into an acceptable shape.

The Conformist, as moderator, has had no problem with this and even let scouries' tirades and bandwith theft have a home here.

Those that claim this is a way of circumventing Lit's posting rules and risking the site's integrity are completely off left field. Lit totally disassociates itself from comments on the forums and, even so, writing (not filming) about underage sex or bestiality etc. is perfectly legal; if of dubious erotic interest. Lit has never been worried and anyone posting an unacceptable draft here is quickly told in no uncertain manner.

Who is trying to create limits on the thread that the moderator hasn't asked for? Who is shutting the door on helping neophytes who want to get a bit of advice?

There is no place else and jadedappetite's plea is not unreasonable.

I await the brickbats.

 

[PennLady]

I should have advised jaded to seek an editor in the Editor's Hangout. I forgot.

I have no problem with people posting a short excerpt or something like that and asking for input, but posting a full story on "Story Feedback" is not what the forum is for. The description is: "Post your feedback about Literotica stories you love or hate!"

It does not say "Post your whole chapter/story here for feedback."

As elfin noted, for one thing it's hard to read these "submissions." If someone's going to post something for help, it should be readable.

I figure posts like this are usually from new users unsure how the site works, or who have perhaps signed up for the forum but not made an account for story submissions (so far as I know, that's possible). I help as best I can. elfin, if you want to give editing help to such posts, then have at. I will advise them to go through the usual channels.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

PL, I agree with what you say.

My point was just that there is a lacuna. New story writers often need mentoring before editing and surely SF is the place. Editors' forum is a bit scary for a newbie and a kind of 'welcome' forum is probably justified, surely?

Just to be a tad awkward, how does the Nipples thread fit with, 'post your feedback on lit stories you love or hate'?

 

[PennLady]

PL, I agree with what you say.

My point was just that there is a lacuna. New story writers often need mentoring before editing and surely SF is the place. Editors' forum is a bit scary for a newbie and a kind of 'welcome' forum is probably justified, surely?

Just to be a tad awkward, how does the Nipples thread fit with, 'post your feedback on lit stories you love or hate'?

The mentoring can start with "I realize it can be confusing, but this story should not post here and here's why." Surely mentoring should include proper use of the site.

And perhaps there should indeed be a welcome/mentoring forum separate from the other threads. Although I know there are sticky notes and FAQs and all, I think they get missed.

I didn't start the Nipples thread so I have no idea why it's there.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm a bit confused. In the early days after I joined, closer to the ice age than global warming, people here accepted shortish drafts on SF and gave comment if they wanted to.

Often, given the difficulty of finding an editor and the succinctness of the site's rejection advice, a newbie writer struggles to dig herself out of a hole and is dependent on some steers to get a story into an acceptable shape.

The Conformist, as moderator, has had no problem with this and even let scouries' tirades and bandwith theft have a home here.

Those that claim this is a way of circumventing Lit's posting rules and risking the site's integrity are completely off left field. Lit totally disassociates itself from comments on the forums and, even so, writing (not filming) about underage sex or bestiality etc. is perfectly legal; if of dubious erotic interest. Lit has never been worried and anyone posting an unacceptable draft here is quickly told in no uncertain manner.

Who is trying to create limits on the thread that the moderator hasn't asked for? Who is shutting the door on helping neophytes who want to get a bit of advice?

There is no place else and jadedappetite's plea is not unreasonable.

I await the brickbats.

Full stories shouldn't be posted on any forum. If someone needs feedback, they can post two or three paragraphs.

 

[PennLady]

Full stories shouldn't be posted on any forum. If someone needs feedback, they can post two or three paragraphs.

Exactly.

I should also say that I don't think most people who do that are trying to get around the site rules. I think they just don't realize how the site works.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Full stories shouldn't be posted on any forum. If someone needs feedback, they can post two or three paragraphs.

OK! But nowhere does it say that - the acceptance on SF of ridiculous travesties, gargantuan bandwith thefts of pictures of naked women, for example, is
accepted as reasonable but a new writer asking for help is beyond the pale. Am I alone, but isn't this against the ethos of the site?

PS: Most 'full stories' posted here are way short of a lit page and, again, although I agree, there are no published rules about posting full stories on the boards.

 

[_Lynn_]

Exactly.

I should also say that I don't think most people who do that are trying to get around the site rules. I think they just don't realize how the site works.

I agree, PL.

OK! But nowhere does it say that - the acceptance on SF of ridiculous travesties, gargantuan bandwith thefts of pictures of naked women, for example, is
accepted as reasonable but a new writer asking for help is beyond the pale. Am I alone, but isn't this against the ethos of the site?

PS: Most 'full stories' posted here are way short of a lit page and, again, although I agree, there are no published rules about posting full stories on the boards.

My information is from Laurel.




Something to consider, then, is how active is the SF mod? If you check the profile, the last post was in 2007, with a total of fifteen posts since the join date in 2005.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I agree, PL.

My information is from Laurel.

Something to consider, then, is how active is the SF mod? If you check the profile, the last post was in 2007, with a total of fifteen posts since the join date in 2005.

I haven't got the privileged ear of Laurel, but I have got increasingly frustrated that moderation here has gone AWOL. Surely we need moderation in line with the site's objectives and a hand to keep the forum on track.

Neither Nipples or scouries belong here and, surely, there needs to be a forum where new writers get a bit of advice before submission. A clear explanation of what is expected in postings and what level of advice they might ask for is long overdue.

 

[_Lynn_]

I haven't got the privileged ear of Laurel, but I have got increasingly frustrated that moderation here has gone AWOL. Surely we need moderation in line with the site's objectives and a hand to keep the forum on track.

Neither Nipples or scouries belong here and, surely, there needs to be a forum where new writers get a bit of advice before submission. A clear explanation of what is expected in postings and what level of advice they might ask for is long overdue.

I can see where clarification would help. But what about a year from now when the forums/posters shift again? We both know how people come and go and that topics change daily. Objectives won't fit everything all the time.

 

[PennLady]

I can see where clarification would help. But what about a year from now when the forums/posters shift again? We both know how people come and go and that topics change daily. Objectives won't fit everything all the time.

Not to mention the fact that there are FAQs and stickies to help authors new and old, yet we constantly see questions about that information b/c they haven't seen or noticed such things. I think it's likely even a dedicated forum thread or sticky would eventually be ignored.

 

[_Lynn_]

Not to mention the fact that there are FAQs and stickies to help authors new and old, yet we constantly see questions about that information b/c they haven't seen or noticed such things. I think it's likely even a dedicated forum thread or sticky would eventually be ignored.

I agree. Some people ask questions without taking much, if any, time to search for the answers first.

 

[sr71plt]

In terms of "published to the Web site," there is no difference between the wordage appearing in the story files and wordage appearing on the forum. It's published; it's on the Web site. To the extent that the web site's control of what is being published to the Web site is a function of sensitivity to the type of material being published and scrutiny by authorities (and, by extension, of those posting to the Web site) a story (or big chunk of one) posted only to this forum is, yes, circumventing the selection process of this Web Site.

Beyond that, the blurb on this forum clearly states that what is presented here for feedback is on Literotica stories. They aren't Literotica stories until they are selected into the Literotica story file. ["Post your feedback about Literotica stories you love or hate!"]

And even beyond that--since this thread obviously is bouncing off a story posting of something being published elsewhere other than Literotica--this isn't a free editorial service for people trying to publish their stories somewhere else other than Literotica to make money off of them.

 

[emap]

Moderators don't have to post to still be around. You see it in other sections where someone will post things they shouldn't and it's edited by the moderator but they don't otherwise say anything. It's actually how a moderator is supposed to work, they post sticky's with the information required for the section and then don't say anything unless it is required. Usually required is someone making a comment about how they can't believe this is still here.

As for the not looking around before posting problem, this is the web. For all intents and purposes we are surfing in the wild west and there really isn't any laws about what happens here besides the child porn and bestiality. Which are not universal laws.

What that means is every person who first comes to this site and finds the forums is going to act like a four year old. Means rush in and ask the question they care about before looking around. Oddly enough that includes posting a full story in here which has happened off and on over the years.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

In terms of "published to the Web site," there is no difference between the wordage appearing in the story files and wordage appearing on the forum. It's published; it's on the Web site. To the extent that the web site's control of what is being published to the Web site is a function of sensitivity to the type of material being published and scrutiny by authorities (and, by extension, of those posting to the Web site) a story (or big chunk of one) posted only to this forum is, yes, circumventing the selection process of this Web Site.

Beyond that, the blurb on this forum clearly states that what is presented here for feedback is on Literotica stories. They aren't Literotica stories until they are selected into the Literotica story file. ["Post your feedback about Literotica stories you love or hate!"]

And even beyond that--since this thread obviously is bouncing off a story posting of something being published elsewhere other than Literotica--this isn't a free editorial service for people trying to publish their stories somewhere else other than Literotica to make money off of them.

Nonsense, nonsense and triple nonsense.

sr, posting to the forum is specifically excluded from the site owners' responsibilities so your pious regurgitations are nonsense. Additionally, where have you got the imaginary idea that the writer is posting elsewhere?

Again, I repeat, allowing bandwidth theft, scouries excesses and having no published rules or moderation makes this forum somewhat like the GB. Unless someone in authority defines the boundaries that are acceptable and we all follow them, this forum is rubbish for people who want critiques and those that offer them.

I will not take you seriously until you campaign for a total clean-up and effective moderation of the forum to set guidelines for neophytes and exclusion of those threads that don't belong here.

 

[sr71plt]

The site owners don't determine what is published and what isn't.

You're just a crackpot, toots. And why should I give a shit what you take seriously or not? You're bonkers.

 

[PennLady]

Again, I repeat, allowing bandwidth theft, scouries excesses and having no published rules or moderation makes this forum somewhat like the GB. Unless someone in authority defines the boundaries that are acceptable and we all follow them, this forum is rubbish for people who want critiques and those that offer them.

Okay, so -- then why am I wrong for pointing out to those who post entire stories that that is not the purpose of "Story Feedback?" What's wrong with the users themselves making an effort to keep things to the rules? If you think there's no authority from on high, why shouldn't we regular users take it on ourselves and try to educate new users?

And from what I can tell, this forum is nothing like the GB. Don't like scouries? There's this handy little "ignore" function you can use.

 

[Brandie69]

Exactly.

I should also say that I don't think most people who do that are trying to get around the site rules. I think they just don't realize how the site works.

What she said.

 

[TxRad]

Then start a mentoring program.

I have two newbies that I'm working with at the present.

I'm not talking about editing for them, I'm talking about answering questions, reading sections of a story, and giving them the benefit of what I have learned over the years.

There are things that we do naturally now that we didn't do as new writers. The opening hook. Adding detail as we go instead of one big block at the front. Showing instead of telling. And many, many more.

 

[_Lynn_]

Then start a mentoring program.

I have two newbies that I'm working with at the present.

I'm not talking about editing for them, I'm talking about answering questions, reading sections of a story, and giving them the benefit of what I have learned over the years.

There are things that we do naturally now that we didn't do as new writers. The opening hook. Adding detail as we go instead of one big block at the front. Showing instead of telling. And many, many more.

I do that too.

In fact, I put suggestions, tips, hints, etc., into a document that I saved. Then I shared the entire list.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Okay, so -- then why am I wrong for pointing out to those who post entire stories that that is not the purpose of "Story Feedback?" What's wrong with the users themselves making an effort to keep things to the rules? If you think there's no authority from on high, why shouldn't we regular users take it on ourselves and try to educate new users?

And from what I can tell, this forum is nothing like the GB. Don't like scouries? There's this handy little "ignore" function you can use.

Yes and no, typically me.

No-one said SF resembled GB, thank heavens. I agree with most posts but think there is a quantum gap between story rejection, EF and, as has been said, mentoring. I think SF, as used to be the case in the days of Cloudy, Jenny Jackson, Impressive and many others, was a pretty brutal cauldron of criticism of poor writing but, as Tx said, mingled caustic criticism with genuine help.

As I see it, SF is now a forum not fit for purpose. Full of bandwidth theft, not objecting to anything posted and resulting in advice to place on ignore posters who deliberately use a quiet backwater to foam and destroy the site ethos.

There is a leap between wanting to write an erotic story and getting it posted. Tx brilliantly summed up the deficit but why can't we reform SF, or have another forum, that fills the gap.

Just with a tad of legal knowledge, sr is a hissing snake. Anything written cannot break legal rules and the site clearly defines their rules for differentiation between accepted stories and the forums. I buy the site's guidelines (except for celebs) but can we please cleanse the Aegean stables, or better, go back to the past.

 

[Pure]

Note re Mistress Lynn's statement.

Full stories shouldn't be posted on any forum. If someone needs feedback, they can post two or three paragraphs.

Hi Mistress Lynn. Simple considerations of economy do indeed dictate that a person generally post a link to his or her story, which has been already posted to the Lit story database.

Likewise, posting an excerpt seems appropriate, in general.

That said, in the Story Discussion forum, sometimes entire stories (drafts) have been posted with mod (i.e. my) approval. There may be a rationale for this if there are enough problems (other than sex topic) that would prevent its publication to the Lit base; or which would simply be embarrassing.

I don't follow Story Feedback, but I believe, historically, full drafts have occasionally appeared, without objection, and I'm not sure if there is currently a prohibition, or simply a custom that discourages it.

ADDED: As to the 'content' or sex topic issue raised by some, I believe the same topics are banned from stories, passages, excerpts no matter where they appear (in a thread or in the main Lit story base), e.g. against underage persons and beasts. The only difference is that threads on some of these topics as 'current issues' have often been allowed, depending on the forum (e.g. should Mississippi continue to ban sex acts with beasts?).

Pure,
mod SDC

 

[nakdsub]

I will give the advice I was given...

Who's forcing you to read it? If someone post a whole story here asking for advice and you don't want to read it or give advice, move on and stop whining.

 

[PennLady]

Who's forcing you to read it? If someone post a whole story here asking for advice and you don't want to read it or give advice, move on and stop whining.

You're right, no one's forcing anyone to read it. My point (and others') is that is not the purpose of this forum.

Mostly I think there's some misunderstandings going on with the new authors that post here. They don't realize that posting to the story side of the site is different than posting here, and/or that posting here is not the same as posting to the story side. So it should be explained.

If someone wants help, posting a few graphs is fine, and then you can help and/or direct them to an editor.

 

[Brandie69]

There are several different issues at play here. How the site should be used; what should be forbidden; roadkill that should be passed by without gawking; and advice to those willing to take it.

Isn't it perfectly clear that the ideal use for this site is that full stories go through the approval and posting process? Isn't it perfectly clear that SF should be derivative of what has been posted that way?

If someone wants pre-guidance, hasn't the structure been established here that there are editors, and wouldn't basic etiquette given the other structures I've mentioned be that if someone wants pre-pre-guidance, they should post only a few paragraphs?

I haven't been around here that long, and I'll grant that means I don't get much of a vote, but I'll just tell you what it looks like to me. When someone posts a story on the main site, the critiques and votes and whatnot that they accumulate are there for the walk-in customers of the site to see.

When someone posts an entire story here, first, they are circumventing that process. In my mind, I say to myself, "Self, they should have known that was not what this forum is here for. What are they doing? Trying to work out the problems before exposing themselves to the retail trade?"

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we pull them over and give them a ticket. But the ideal is that they don't drive in that fashion on this particular stretch of road, and there should be signs left around politely reminding them of it.

(Submitted in the recognition that you can't even dispose of a piece of used candy for $0.02 anymore.)

B