Don K Dyck

[Frimost]

I don't think I was around here on the boards at the time of the Bali bombing....200 or more people killed, most of them innocent Australian citizens vacationing, partying, having fun...I get the distinct feeling that you probably didn't break a sweat over it all. I hope I’m wrong but based on the way you complain about you're own country I just have a creeping feeling you would have complained vociferously had a Australian F-111 accidentally killed about 10 or 20 Muslim's in Afghanistan in a miss-directed bombing, much MORE then you would have (or did?) over the intentional targeting of your own people by Muslim fundamentalists. I hope I’m wrong, otherwise IMO you are just a traitor to your own people.

 

[Guest]

No I didn't even blink an eye. I don't feel anything any more.

I don't really care if they go to war. Kill each other. See if I care.

 

[Guest]

Well, this thread went nowhere........

 

[p_p_man]

I don't think I was around here on the boards at the time of the Bali bombing....200 or more people killed, most of them innocent Australian citizens vacationing, partying, having fun...I get the distinct feeling that you probably didn't break a sweat over it all. I hope I’m wrong but based on the way you complain about you're own country I just have a creeping feeling you would have complained vociferously had a Australian F-111 accidentally killed about 10 or 20 Muslim's in Afghanistan in a miss-directed bombing, much MORE then you would have (or did?) over the intentional targeting of your own people by Muslim fundamentalists. I hope I’m wrong, otherwise IMO you are just a traitor to your own people.

Are you saying that you think it's treason to criticise your own country?

Because if you are then you are lost to the Land of Reason forever, and will be forever enslaved by the pronouncements of Government.

I pity you...

ppman

 

[Frimost]

No, its treason to have sympathy for the enemy and no empathy for the deaths of your own nation's fellow citizens.

 

[QuickDuck]

No, its treason to have sympathy for the enemy and no empathy for the deaths of your own nation's fellow citizens.

I can tell you that the majority of the country was shocked, saddend and god knows how many other emotions.

I will not speak for Donkey, but I am sure he was too.

It is also human nature though, to question and attempt to understand why.

Personally, I believe Donkey to be a looney, but that does not mean he does not love his country.

At the very least, an understanding will help with any attempt to find a solution

 

[Gil_Favor]

Actually, as I recall Donkey was a little upset. But then he blamed the CIA or multinational corporation$.

 

[busybody..]

Frim

It wasnt the Muslim Fanatics that did it

It was the poor oppressed Muslims that were driven by the CIA and US oil interests that FORCED em to do it.......

 

[p_p_man]

No, its treason to have sympathy for the enemy

Having sympathy and giving active support are two different things.

I have sympathy with the majority of jews in Israel but I would never support them.

ppman

 

[Gil_Favor]

Re: Frim

It wasnt the Muslim Fanatics that did it

It was the poor oppressed Muslims that were driven by the CIA and US oil interests that FORCED em to do it.......

i knew it had something to do with oil.......

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I don't imagine Donkey lacks sympathy for his lost countrymen, but it's pretty obvious who he considers most dangerous in the world today. He thinks the "U$" is more dangerous than Muslim fundamentalist terrorists, 3rd world dictators with WMD's, or anybody else for that matter.

I disagree with him, but he's basically like the rest of us who post on political issues here - we all try to rectify the ideas of those we disagree with by posting criticisms of their worldviews. PP_man bashes Bush, America, and Israel and says nary a peep about the evils of terrorism. Red bashes all thing capitalist and fails to address the obvious flaws of Communism. Unclebill bashes "the collectivists" (whoever they are), AJ and WD bash libs, etc. etc. For your part, I've seen you come down hard on the Islamists and you don't take the old USA to task on too much.

There's hardly anyone here who's truly "balanced". It's annoying, but that's how it is. I think that internet debate really tends to polarize people more than bring them together.

I could go into all the social science research on "group contrast effects", but I think I'll save that soapbox speech for another day.

 

[busybody..]

Ollie

What should America be taken to task for?

Why should I be balanced? I support AMERICA vis a vis everyone else.....in everything!

 

[Frimost]

That Bali bombing was like Aussies very own mini-version of 9/11.

This months Men's Journal has a big article all about it, from first-hand account and photos of the innocent people killed.

Yet I don't see any indignation or rants over the dozens of Aussies killed by those fuckers by "Donkey".

It’s just disconcerting, how it seems to be ignored by him IMO.

 

[p_p_man]

PP_man bashes Bush, America, and Israel and says nary a peep about the evils of terrorism.

I don't bash terrorism as much as I bash Bush because it's obvious what terrorism is and what it does...

Bush just hides his own brand of terrorism behind a cloak of false justification. To bash Bush is to try to show that he is one of the most dangerous men in the world.

ppman

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I agree, Fri. It's frustrating to see others ignore what we consider to be evidence for why our worldview is right. Try to imagine how frustrating it must be to be Donkey! All these blowhard Americans ignoring all the inconsistencies and hypocrisies about our government's relationship with Iraq and our foreign policy in general. It's gotta irritate the fuck out of Peeps to see us post sympathy for the Israeli victims of terrorism when we don't show the same sympathy for Palestinian victims of the Israeli military.

Such is our human nature - we have the ability to sympathize deeply, but we distribute it unevenly.

And Busybody, there's plenty of reasons to criticize the US, but I'll show my pro-US bias now and fail to enumerate them. I'm sure one of the America-haters will be along shortly to pick up my slack.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I don't bash terrorism as much as I bash Bush because it's obvious what terrorism is and what it does...

Bush just hides his own brand of terrorism behind a cloak of false justification. To bash Bush is to try to show that he is one of the most dangerous men in the world.

ppman

Oh, come on, Peeps. Let's call a spade a spade here. Is it really obvious to you what terrorism is and what it does?

I've read your justifications for Palestinian terrorism, you knucklehead. You know, "what else can the poor country without a military do".

Now, be proud of your partisanism. Say it and say it loud:

"I'm an America-hater and I'm proud!"

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

double-post. How 'bout that.

 

[Orlanth]

Most of you here are so full of shit.

PPman is right about what he said.

He's my bit.

Don NEVER ignored anything about the bali bombing, he was upset just like therest of us Australians.

He wants to understand why it happend. He never said he supported the bombers. never assume something based off what a person said or did not say.

 

[Frimost]

Well I made a post awhile back about how I couldn't stand American military support for Israel. I support a Palestinian state. I support Palestinian ambushes on IDF patrols and personnel in so far as it's their right to make them. I DON'T support Palestinian suicide bombers walking into cafes, bars, and reception halls and blowing up innocent civilians or the shooting murders of Israeli non-military personnel (especially women and children). The inequity in military power is no greater than our own was to the British Empire in our Revolutionary War and we didn't resort to terrorist tactics, just good old-fashioned guerilla warfare that is perfectly acceptable in the rules of war.

I also have complained of our economic ties to China and other stuff as well.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

He wants to understand why it happend. He never said he supported the bombers. never assume something based off what a person said or did not say.

I disagree. You can certainly learn a lot from what one says and doesn't say.

If a person castigates the individuals responsible for this crime, he betrays his personal belief that individuals are responsible for the consequences of their own actions. If he rails against Islamic fundamentalism, he displays his belief in the power of religion as a social force by which individuals can be motivated to commit acts of breathtaking violence. If instead he chooses to argue against imperialism he shows his belief in the idea that those in the developing world are exploited by the more powerful and that the violence those in the developing world enact against developed nations is explained by these forces.

The truth is a lot more complicated. Each worldview has some legitimacy (though I don't think all are equal).

I'm sure Don feels plenty of sympathy for the victims, Orlanth. What he doesn't do is to put most of the blame on the bombers or on fundamentalist Islam. To him, their act is more a symptom of imperialism and exploitation by the big, bad Western world meeting with a rational resistance from those who we're trying to exploit.

 

[QuickDuck]

Don NEVER ignored anything about the bali bombing, he was upset just like therest of us Australians.

He wants to understand why it happend. He never said he supported the bombers.

*boggle* didn;t i just say that?

 

[miles]

Oh, you're all fucked.

 

[QuickDuck]

Oh, you're all fucked.

I love you too

have a cookie?

 

[Orlanth]

I disagree. You can certainly learn a lot from what one says and doesn't say.

If a person castigates the individuals responsible for this crime, he betrays his personal belief that individuals are responsible for the consequences of their own actions. If he rails against Islamic fundamentalism, he displays his belief in the power of religion as a social force by which individuals can be motivated to commit acts of breathtaking violence. If instead he chooses to argue against imperialism he shows his belief in the idea that those in the developing world are exploited by the more powerful and that the violence those in the developing world enact against developed nations is explained by these forces.

The truth is a lot more complicated. Each worldview has some legitimacy (though I don't think all are equal).

I'm sure Don feels plenty of sympathy for the victims, Orlanth. What he doesn't do is to put most of the blame on the bombers or on fundamentalist Islam. To him, their act is more a symptom of imperialism and exploitation by the big, bad Western world meeting with a rational resistance from those who we're trying to exploit.

He did say something though you flaming idiot! He said it at the Aussie thread where most Aussies hang out.

 

[Orlanth]

*boggle* didn;t i just say that?

I know, just had the echo you.