Doms and Doormats

[kimuk]

i'm sure the dynamics of each relationship is different just like any other relationship. There r plenty of "doormats" in the vanilla world too.

As an oneline sub ( with only one r/l meeting under my belt) i often feel like a second class sub here.

As if its not really real. But my relationship with my Dom is the most real thing in my life and altough we have only had one day togeather.....no one can ever take that away from me

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I have a problem with pyl-types not speaking their mind.

 

[Veroe]

What does PYL mean?

 

[Stella_Omega]

What does PYL mean?

Pick Your Label. In caps, it signifies dominant, top, master, owner whatever; in lowercase it's sub, slave, bottom, whatever.


Saves the forum some wrangling about terminology (usually started by yours truly, I admit it).

 

[rekane]

now the problem you seem to be having is just running into assorted online jerks, which is an entirely different subject than your OP. there is a difference between a Dominant and some dude with no life who just happens to have an internet connection. these bums are not looking for a submissive at all (they would be absolutely terrified of one in the flesh), they are looking for an anonymous subject to help them wank-off. just my humble opinion, of course.

Seriously, shouldn't these asshats come with warning labels? Something like "caution: I live in my mother's basement and look like jabba the hut" or "warning: will jizz in my pants around a real woman" or "BEWARE! contents only appear to be safe and sane".


Chiara, darling...
So glad you are here.
Some men, when they understand you are submissive, will just start throwing out orders, without a clue as to what they are doing. That's the thing that makes me laugh. It's like someone learning that you speak french and they want to impress you by saying "voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir".
N'importe quoi (translation: whateva...)

p.s. I can tell you some litsters to avoid like the plague. Them and some really bad erotica...

 

[KoPilot]

sounds depressingly familiar. i couldn't tell you how many times i've run off to instantly obey a command from someone which wasn't even serious. i was never able to sense when someone was joking around, or worse, just being cruel because they knew about my nature. still remember the junior high school bully who asked me to tie her shoe. i thought it was a strange thing to ask someone, and especially to ask me whom i knew she hated, but i put my books down and squatted on the floor and started tying. she kind of shrieks, and goes, "ugh, get off my feet! what is wrong with you?" with the most repulsed look on her face..and of course everyone thought it was soooo hilarious and laughed their butts off.


if only that crap had ended with junior high.

It just sucks because my small circle of friends sees what's going on with her (excessive drinking, sleeping half the day away), and it's difficult to help when you don't know what their motivations are, what they want, and what makes them tick. So we've more or less given up, aside from inviting her out with us on weekends and riding her ass when she's on academic probation (which has happened on a few occasions). :T

And goddamn, you've reminded me that I used to be one of those people. However, would enter into situations like those knowingly half the time, thinking it would help. I remember once deciding I wanted to forge an alliance with a popular girl in elementary school and be friends with her, so I invented a very degrading game for her to play that involved painlessly kicking me around the grass. Oy. Glad those days are over.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Seriously, shouldn't these asshats come with warning labels? Something like "caution: I live in my mother's basement and look like jabba the hut" or "warning: will jizz in my pants around a real woman" or "BEWARE! contents only appear to be safe and sane".

Chicks love to be chained up by Jabba the Hut.

http://blog.cocoia.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/jabba-leia-throneroom.jpg

Or maybe it's just chicks with Cinnabon's glued to their heads.

http://www.michaelshouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cocaine-abuse-carrie-fisher.jpg

 

[rosco rathbone]

I think the "lady, intelligent contributor" part gets lost in the mix of what I was reading yesterday. But to be frank, one of the posts that caused this concern looked like a PYL scolding a pyl for having an opinion about something. So he was, effectively, trying to squash her "intelligent contributor". Granted, she didn't sound squashed in the least; but it still bothered me for some reason.

"when appropriate" should be tattooed backwards on some people's foreheads so that they can see it in the mirror when they pop their pimples.

 

[neci]

hello. doormat here.

i think the term doormat gets thrown around a lot when people judge situations at face value. i retook the myers briggs personality test the other day. gave it to myself. i was surprised to see that i've changed since the last time i took the real test (it's been 12 years.) nothing too dramatic, just a noticeable shift from P to J. as soon as i got the results, i read everything i could find on my new "type." it was pretty dead on. it is easy for me to look at myself as a doormat. as a doormat, i am helpless. i can't shake myself off. i can't come in from the cold. it is easier for me to be walked on than gather the emotional strength to deal with conflict. knowing this about myself, the question is not, how do i alter my personality? the question is, how do i use my strengths and knowledge of myself to make sure i am safe, and heaven forbid thriving. i have to work on developing a voice.

it's like having a garden in the desert. at first glance, someone from mississippi may say, how sad! there is no grass! let's figure out how to truck in soil and turf to make new lawns over the sand. they pull in water from other places to survive. it all goes to shit. your water bill rises. there's over population, because now people can have the green without the rain. business booms then busts. when all they needed to do was make a garden of saguaro, sage and wild sunflowers. if they wanted to get really wild, they could even throw in a woolly butterfly bush.

it's all about doormat maintenance.

 

[ownedsubgal]

well said neci.

 

[Veroe]

As you can tell from my join date, I'm new here. So if this topic has been beaten within an inch of its life, could someone post a link to that thread? Thanks!

I woke this morning thinking about a couple of different threads I read yesterday. Some were on the BDSM Cafe board and another couple were in the BDSM Personals. I can't recall which posts particularly gave me this impression, but they inferred a good portion* of doms on Lit are simply looking for doormats. There seemed to be some resentment against subs who can speak their mind and hold to their own opinions. I just don't understand. Could someone please explain it?

Submission doesn't require me to leave my brain at the door. I would expect it is a more engaging experience for both parties if there's a spark of intelligence that goes along with the spark of sexual attraction.

I almost felt like instead of writing dom/sub ever again, I should be writing dom/doormat. But I know it really is PYL/pyl.

*Please note the "good portion." I recognize not all doms here fall into my generalization, so let's not waste time scolding me about my generalization.

Let's turn the question around on its ear here. If the sub is not a doormat. If he/she were to speak his/her mind and hold to her/his opinions does that mean the dominant to that submissive is seen more as a doormat themselves for not breaking the submissive of that spirit of not insisting the submissive keep his/her oppinions silent and for not displaying instant and total subservience and dependence upon them?

 

[Chiara_searches]

Pick Your Label. In caps, it signifies dominant, top, master, owner whatever; in lowercase it's sub, slave, bottom, whatever.


Saves the forum some wrangling about terminology (usually started by yours truly, I admit it).

I would gladly join you in that wrangling!

 

[teknight]

Pick Your Label. In caps, it signifies dominant, top, master, owner whatever; in lowercase it's sub, slave, bottom, whatever.


Saves the forum some wrangling about terminology (usually started by yours truly, I admit it).

But I love it when you wrangle about teknicalities. It's cute.

</threadjack>

 

[Stella_Omega]

But I love it when you wrangle about teknicalities. It's cute.

</threadjack>

You looking for trouble?

 

[YourCaptor]

Ok let’s replace doormat with moron. Morons are easily exploited, makes great BDSM.

If that’s not what you’re looking for don’t take it. And lit is probably not a great pickup spot anyway.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Let's turn the question around on its ear here. If the sub is not a doormat. If he/she were to speak his/her mind and hold to her/his opinions does that mean the dominant to that submissive is seen more as a doormat themselves for not breaking the submissive of that spirit of not insisting the submissive keep his/her oppinions silent and for not displaying instant and total subservience and dependence upon them?

I don't think a PYL that accepts his or her pyl as having a brain is a doormat. Again, I think we fall back into the idea that what works for one does not work for all. Speaking in generalities, however, I think a PYL would have a more balanced relationship by accepting a pyl who thinks. I think of dominance and submission as a yin and a yang, there has to be a mirroring of sorts. The world is chaotic, but there is balance in much of it.

Rosco's summary was apt.

We are looking for subs who are a whore in the bedroom, a lady in the drawing room, an intelligent contributor on the message board, and a doormat when appropriate.

I'm not saying that the pyl thinking goes on, necessarily, in the sexual (or rather for some sensual) acts. A pyl, IMHO, lays his or her will regarding that aspect at the feet of the PYL. But what started me worrying was a post that sounded as if a PYL was saying about a non-sexual thing "Shut the F up; you're a sub and aren't entitled to a say." Again, my argument, or concern would be more valid if I could find that thread again...but I was poking around a lot yesterday and haven't had the time to search today.

Regardless, the few PYL-types brave enough to post on this thread seem to be answering the original concern: there does exist PYLs who understand pyls don't check their brains at the door (or rather, they check them at the bedroom door as it may suit). My appreciation for Lit is renewed!

But then again, I willingly admit I over analyze things I know very little about.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Chicks love to be chained up by Jabba the Hut.

Or maybe it's just chicks with Cinnabon's glued to their heads.

Seriously, shouldn't these asshats come with warning labels? Something like "caution: I live in my mother's basement and look like jabba the hut" or "warning: will jizz in my pants around a real woman" or "BEWARE! contents only appear to be safe and sane".

You guys are so funny. Do you perform your comedy act anywhere we can see it? Or is it a rare privilege for those part of the lit community? We already know my opinion on humor...

 

[Chiara_searches]

It just sucks because my small circle of friends sees what's going on with her (excessive drinking, sleeping half the day away), and it's difficult to help when you don't know what their motivations are, what they want, and what makes them tick. So we've more or less given up, aside from inviting her out with us on weekends and riding her ass when she's on academic probation (which has happened on a few occasions). :T

And goddamn, you've reminded me that I used to be one of those people. However, would enter into situations like those knowingly half the time, thinking it would help. I remember once deciding I wanted to forge an alliance with a popular girl in elementary school and be friends with her, so I invented a very degrading game for her to play that involved painlessly kicking me around the grass. Oy. Glad those days are over.

If you are still in college and living on campus, you can usually seek help through residence life or the like. Be glad that you pulled yourself out of that mind set; but also don't let your friend fall through the cracks. It sounds like you don't want to...but you've "more or less given up." It may take a long while before she accepts the hand reaching for her.

 

[chy_girl]

I have a problem with pyl-types not speaking their mind.

LOL - DGE, you are such a sapiosexual.

*snip*
But what started me worrying was a post that sounded as if a PYL was saying about a non-sexual thing "Shut the F up; you're a sub and aren't entitled to a say." Again, my argument, or concern would be more valid if I could find that thread again...but I was poking around a lot yesterday and haven't had the time to search today.

Regardless, the few PYL-types brave enough to post on this thread seem to be answering the original concern: there does exist PYLs who understand pyls don't check their brains at the door (or rather, they check them at the bedroom door as it may suit). My appreciation for Lit is renewed!

But then again, I willingly admit I over analyze things I know very little about.

Did the thread also involve page after page of gibberish about casual BDSM being the root of all evil and how submissives are thoughtless sheep waiting for the big, bad PYLs of the world to emotionally fleece them in the most abusive way possible?

In all seriousness, it is possible that a PYL told a pyl to shut up. And there's at least one or two people around that I can see saying that. That doesn't mean that anyone gave the PYL much thought. And let's face it, whether someone identifies with upper case letters or lower case letters, it doesn't automatically exclude them from being an ass hole. Or automatically make them dazzling examples of humankind.

 

[YourCaptor]

It just sucks because my small circle of friends sees what's going on with her (excessive drinking, sleeping half the day away), and it's difficult to help when you don't know what their motivations are, what they want, and what makes them tick. So we've more or less given up, aside from inviting her out with us on weekends and riding her ass when she's on academic probation (which has happened on a few occasions). :T

And goddamn, you've reminded me that I used to be one of those people. However, would enter into situations like those knowingly half the time, thinking it would help. I remember once deciding I wanted to forge an alliance with a popular girl in elementary school and be friends with her, so I invented a very degrading game for her to play that involved painlessly kicking me around the grass. Oy. Glad those days are over.

Holly crap you have a web comic, that is bad ass. You know, once upon a time I was in one, the occasional wacked out guest appearance… but then again that was the theme for the whole thing.

PS hook me up with that friend.

 

[KoPilot]

If you are still in college and living on campus, you can usually seek help through residence life or the like. Be glad that you pulled yourself out of that mind set; but also don't let your friend fall through the cracks. It sounds like you don't want to...but you've "more or less given up." It may take a long while before she accepts the hand reaching for her.

Or maybe we could just all order her to buck up, do her work, and be happy? And in her inability to say no, she'll follow through? :B

Man, trying to police someone like this is so against my nature it makes me feel ucky, but thank god I have help from others who like getting in people's faces about stuff.

And lol, she got approved to be a dolled up maid/waitress at an expensive, convention-exclusive eatery at an anime con next month or something, and she is totally stoked. Glad she has something to look forward to, and even gladder that there are going to be people there to watch her back.

 

[KoPilot]

Holly crap you have a web comic, that is bad ass. You know, once upon a time I was in one, the occasional wacked out guest appearance… but then again that was the theme for the whole thing.

PS hook me up with that friend.

Hehe, yeah... I do. Don't tell anybody!

And if you offered her candy out on the street, I'm sure she'd take it.

 

[Passing]

The BDSM lifestyle is like any other kind of relationship. You have to know what you like and what you want. If that means you go through an experimental stage so be it. Finding that right person is never easy.

There are as many different forms of ‘play’ as there are people. There are no hard and fast rules that say you must be this or you must be that. What works for one person doesn’t have to work for another. I was a naturally submissive person, and extremely modest/shy. If my partner called me a slut I’d cry for a week just wondering what I did that gave him that impression. Obviously name calling isn’t one of my ‘things’ but it seems to be common.

Obviously you want your partner to respect that you are intelligent or maybe better put you don’t want a partner who treats you like a mindless fuck. Congratulations you are one step closer to knowing what you want your partner to be, in or out of the BDSM.

As long as we have the relative freedom to choose our own partners, we shouldn’t have to put up with anything we don’t want. I have notice several ‘doormats’ around here who are very content, and if they are happy, let them be happy because they are what they choose to be. I know this is going to sound wrong, but abuse is only abuse if it is unwanted.

That is just my opinion, and is subject to change if you can convince me otherwise. (good luck with that)

rekane: love what you had to say, thank you

rosco: always insightful, I don’t know why that still surprises me…

neci: I love you, but only for today okay?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

LOL - DGE, you are such a sapiosexual.

Yeah. I'm pretty much, "Let's watch NOVA while we do it doggie style."

 

[Noira]

Hehe, yeah... I do. Don't tell anybody!

I have one too but I'm not brave enough to link it in my sigline! Let's have a party!