Dom guilt?

[Bredon]

I understand that from a sub's POV it must sound rather idiotic-- I do something that you like, so what's the problem?
I'm sure I will get used to it eventually, but, I still would like to hear from other doms if they have experienced that too, and how they dealt with it.

Bredon

 

[FurryFury]

My husband is not a Dom but in trying things that I enjoy he has had a LOT of guilt. It wasn't until he saw how thrilled, responsive and happy these things made me that he got a little more comfortable. It seems the rewards are worth it to him. What helped even more was when that the instruction of my online Dom at that time, I spanked and fucked him. This enabled him to see that spanking is or can be a very good sensation rather than a hurtful one. Now we both are able to enjoy these things with far less guilt. I think in time, your guilt will also lessen if you have a partner that enjoys and "needs" what you do. There is something almost sacred in such a thing, IMO.

Fury

 

[Bredon]

Fury--

It's true that I felt a lot less guilt when I was with my sub. And I had that "sacred" feeling too *foolish grin*.
Now that I'm alone, the guilt becomes stronger again.
But thank you for reminding me!

 

[FurryFury]

Fury--

It's true that I felt a lot less guilt when I was with my sub. And I had that "sacred" feeling too *foolish grin*.
Now that I'm alone, the guilt becomes stronger again.
But thank you for reminding me!

My pleasure!

*smiles*

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

Me too, I had a fantastic image of lots of Doms and Dommes sitting around in a big circle in their finest finery, stiching happily, possibly with a log fire and kittens. A sort of sadistic sewing bee (is that how it's spelt?), if you will.

And since it is a sadistic sewing bee there WILL BE NO THIMBLES!

*L*

Fury

 

[St_George]

My husband is not a Dom but in trying things that I enjoy he has had a LOT of guilt. It wasn't until he saw how thrilled, responsive and happy these things made me that he got a little more comfortable. It seems the rewards are worth it to him.
Fury

This is so true. Half, well, quite a lot of the turn on in spanking my sub is the way it makes her wiggle and sqirm. And squeal. Mmmm.

 

[FurryFury]

This is so true. Half, well, quite a lot of the turn on in spanking my sub is the way it makes her wiggle and sqirm. And squeal. Mmmm.

Yes, my husband says I'm the most responsive, inside and out, during such.

Fury

 

[nymphee]

And since it is a sadistic sewing bee there WILL BE NO THIMBLES!

*L*

Fury

<face falls>

But it's vintage

 

[FurryFury]

<face falls>

But it's vintage

Those sadistic types can be and cause such pricks! LOL. Oh but we can at least admire your vintage thimble.

*nods, nods, nods*

Fury

 

[nymphee]

Hum. My vintage thimble is not something I ever imagined discussing in a BDSM forum!
I still can't get the sadistic sewing bee out of my head. I fear I am taking procrastination to all new levels.

 

[neonflux]

Hi Bredon,

Even though I also grew up in a pacifist household, the only time I've felt guilt when causing pain is the first time I Topped, when I initially missed hearing my partner's safe word - my solution was to proceed more carefully and to make sure that we also started using a "safe gesture." I am not sure why this is, perhaps because I associate S/m play with sex (about which I’ve never felt guilty) rather than violence (which does create guilt – won both of the fights I got into as a kid – both with boys – both made me feel bad and when my parents found out, they made me feel much worse, LOL)

I also bottom, and can handle and enjoy a tremendous amount of pain. Haven't yet found a limit in terms of flogging and would like to explore edge play (can't do that with my current partner because of his limits as a Top). I can assure you that what you give when Topping will be appreciated, as long as you are listening to safe words/gestures. You and your bottom/sub are fulfilling each others' needs through pain yes. But it’s not violence in the traditional sense because it is not only consensual but welcome and enjoyable on the part of the person you're Topping.

Also, I am learning that it OK to have limits as a Top. I do have at least one limit that I've already discovered - have talked about it a little in the "women who like to be called sluts" thread. Verbal humiliation is one of my hard limits as a bottom and it turns out also as a Top – I definitely feel guilty! (Go figure, I can cause welts or bruises on someone elses' bum but cannot handle the idea of calling them a slut, LOL.)

The only scene I've done so far as a Top that absolutely didn't work involved verbal humiliation - my partner thought he'd like it - neither of us did. Can't enjoy humiliating someone verbally, regardless of gender. (Other types of humiliation I don’t have trouble with.) Am exploring establishing a play-only relationship with a very experienced sub who does enjoy it. We're having dinner Thursday night so that I can get a better sense of hir needs - our first real serious negotiation. We’ll see…

Great question!
Neon

 

[JMohegan]

You actively look for submissive partners. Chances are, more than a fwe of those submissive partners enjoys getting hit. Where's the problem, really? If you were forcing yourdesires on an unwilling partner, then I'd see it as a problem. But so long as the people you are with are OK with everything, so long as it's consensual, it's all good.

One "problem" might arise from the fact that the extent of one partner's sadism might exceed the extent to which the other is masochistic.

In these cases, the sadist will sometimes want to do things that go beyond the point of sexual enjoyment and hurt. Just hurt.

Even though the submissive partner genuinely does not enjoy what's happening in the moment, she consents to it out of devotion to her partner and/or a profound desire to please.

The sadist worked hard to establish sincere trust, love, devotion, and respect in the relationship. All laudable goals.

But these positive aspects of the relationship then create a situation in which the submissive consents to something that is much harder for many people to accept as morally sound. Not pain with pleasure, but pain all by itself.

The only way I know to clear this moral hurdle is to do three things.

1 - spend a lot of time talking to your partner about her reactions, feelings, etc. in a non-sexual setting.

2- focus on the big picture that I mentioned in post 20, above.

3 - set firm boundaries for yourself that you do not, under any circumstances, permit yourself to cross.

That's not Gospel, obviously. It's just what works for me.


Not to detract from this thread, but simply because it may be of interest to new sadists here, I recommend the thread "Delving the Psyche of Sadists", started by RJMasters and found at this link.

 

[neonflux]

The only way I know to clear this moral hurdle is to do three things.

1 - spend a lot of time talking to your partner about her reactions, feelings, etc. in a non-sexual setting.

2- focus on the big picture that I mentioned in post 20, above.

3 - set firm boundaries for yourself that you do not, under any circumstances, permit yourself to cross.

That's not Gospel, obviously. It's just what works for me.


Not to detract from this thread, but simply because it may be of interest to new sadists here, I recommend the thread "Delving the Psyche of Sadists", started by RJMasters and found at this link.

Have I mentioned recently how much I enjoy your posts? Oops! I have? Well, I'll say it again anyway. BTW, just bumped the thread...

 

[JMohegan]

Well, I'll say it again anyway.

Well, I guess I'll have to thank you again.

Sincerely.

 

[neonflux]

Well, I guess I'll have to thank you again.

Sincerely.

LOL, I'm starting my own fan club

 

[Kajira Callista]

We are as fried as a couple of old hippies, babe.

im still giggling every time i see this thread.

 

[angel_girl]

Have I mentioned recently how much I enjoy your posts? Oops! I have? Well, I'll say it again anyway. BTW, just bumped the thread...

I have to agree, Neon. His posts are so informative.

JMohegan Fan Club Member #2

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I have to agree, Neon. His posts are so informative.

JMohegan Fan Club Member #2

I'll third. He's certainly been willing to answer a lot of my questions....

Rox.

 

[Netzach]

I've definitely experienced guilt after giving some of the exact treatment sought by bottoms. It's not really gender based (girls don't...) though that IS a factor. The things I was doing were very outside the scope of what baseline society would consider something desireable and ok. I just kind of rolled with it, decided "ok I liked that" or "ok I'm never doing that again" based on how I felt. I don't think that the guilt is something to be avoided at all costs, I do think it's often where things get "interesting."

I don't want to be one of those people pushing to "interesting" every time, though, I find that kind of draining. Small doses are good.

 

[ppaddleman]

guilt

I find that the best thing to do is not to judge. Paticulay ourselves!
The subbie at our feet likes the feel of the cane, or likes surrendering her freedom to the ropes. Who are we to judged her tastes when its hard to understand them but easy to accept them..

Likewise who is anybody, even ourselves to judge out tastes.

No I don't feel guilty. Not when I can feel the sub over my knee gettting hornier all the time.

 

[JMohegan]

Neon, Angel Girl, Rox - thank you. I am not a fan of fan clubs, but I appreciate the thought very much.

There are many people here who take the time to provide thoughtful responses to questions, and it's nice to know you consider me to be one of them. Thanks again.

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[neonflux]

I've definitely experienced guilt after giving some of the exact treatment sought by bottoms. It's not really gender based (girls don't...) though that IS a factor. The things I was doing were very outside the scope of what baseline society would consider something desireable and ok. I just kind of rolled with it, decided "ok I liked that" or "ok I'm never doing that again" based on how I felt. I don't think that the guilt is something to be avoided at all costs, I do think it's often where things get "interesting."

I don't want to be one of those people pushing to "interesting" every time, though, I find that kind of draining. Small doses are good.

It seems to me that in some senses, that as JMohegan's posts hint at, guilt is an important marker for following one's own code of ethics.

Have you ever run into a situation where you had an absolute limit even beforehand - something you just wouldn't do? For instance, I know someone who often gets requests from African-American men who want to be racially degraded (N word, "stud" stereotypes, etc.) and she won't do it. Based upon that story of skewered breasts on another thread (which led me to think of castration), I've been thinking recently about whether, beyond minor cutting, I could ever permanently mutilate someone's body. Not only wouldn't I not enjoy doing either but the guilt would most probably last for an extremely long time, not least because I cannot believe that someone who would ask for such wouldn't eventually have some regrets...

Conversely, did you ever experience guilt because of an unexpectedly dark aspect you discovered in yourself? During a recent workshop I discovered a play persona that is actually quite evil (my other two are not), but haven't really allowed her to come out yet when playing - not because I feel guilty (though I was shocked initially), but because I've only Topped 2 people at this point and neither would have been a good match for her. Am currently negotiating with someone, however...

Neon

 

[Netzach]

Have you ever run into a situation where you had an absolute limit even beforehand - something you just wouldn't do?

The more I play the less sure I am what those things are - what's totally inappropriate in one case may make sense in another. I'll talk around just about any subject I can think of and a few I hadn't considered - what I'll actually DO is another matter. I have done some things I would not repeat, not necessarily things I regret.

Conversely, did you ever experience guilt because of an unexpectedly dark aspect you discovered in yourself? .

Hell yes.

And also delight, relief, intrigue, a host of things.

 

[Bredon]

Woah, these are lots of interesting thoughts-- thank you everybody!

Who are we to judged her tastes

PPaddleman-- You are right- it has something to do with judgement.
Thank you for pointing that out--
I think I'm a person that generally has a lot of "morals" (word?). I think a lot etc.
I worry a lot I really have to think about this one.

Neonflux-- Again I realize that it would be easier to appreciate what I do/like as a dom if I'd enjoy the other side too. But I don't. I can't enjoy pain, I don't even enjoy a lot of domination. I don't understand why anyone would like that. Naturaly I feel a bit weird about wanting to inflict it when I don't like it. It's bit like with penetration-- i don't really get why anyone enjoys that passively--
That feels strange because I'mbrought up on that 80s "everybody is the same/should be the same/should get the same" notion. I feel like an egotist for getting the good part

About verbal humiliation-- that's interesting because I can't do/enjoy that too. That would be a huge limit for me. My sub asked for it but I circumvented it.

btw. did I read about that here or on another board-- about the black sub who did that too and felt release from it in the snse that he could fight against real life racism a lot better (he stopped freezing when people insulted him in real life etc)? That made a lot of sense to me-- Again BDSM is like martial arts there.

Bredon