Doing away with categories?

[John_Vandermeer]

"Similar Story" links, "New Story Lists', following authors; are all methods for readers to find stories that would be totally unaffected by tags.

I believe "similar story" links might be informed by tags. Just a guess, obviously not familiar with inner workings of Lit.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

To be clear, between the fact that we authors are powerless and that any change would clearly seem to be unpopular no change seems ever likely to happen.

But some of caveats that have been mentioned do not account for the power of incentives. For example: misspells and variations of the same tag. It would be in author's interests to consolidate in the most popular of the "synonym" tags. Otherwise you lose out on readers. There can be a list of 20, or 30, or 50 most popular tags, and it would be in author's interests to include at least one of them--these could be closely related to current categories, but would be more fluid and organic, and would probably split things such as "BTB" and "RAAC". Heck, you could have a "not X" part of the search. And that would be ok for me as an author if I know readers willing to use that would result in a "1-bomb" for sure.

Truth is a tag system would be more like a "web" which is richer and more organic. Categories are just a couple of dozen buckets side by side.

 

[Voboy]

Truth is a tag system would be more like a "web" which is richer and more organic. Categories are just a couple of dozen buckets side by side.

But that web already exists. Readers who wish to use the tags exclusively are more than welcome to do so already, and disregard the categories.

The categories are in addition to that web. I see no need for the web to replace the categories. They're not mutually exclusive, and getting rid of either of them seems to me like a step back.

 

[KeithD]

Here's a thought: To test the idea, it could be made voluntary, going forward, or at least for while as an experiment. Assuming a more robust tag system was developed, along with a more robust way of listing stories on a tag basis, then authors could choose to publish their stories without categorizing them and instead relying on the tag system. Then we could see how the uncategorized stories did compared to the categorized stories.

A waste of time even to moot, as this relies on more than what the users themselves can do.

 

[SimonDoom]

A waste of time even to moot, as this relies on more than what the users themselves can do.

Nobody can say that you soft-pedal your opinions.

 

[KeithD]

Nobody can say that you soft-pedal your opinions.

You have any evidence beyond wishful thinking that I'm wrong with this particular opinion? It can really get irritating when the "we could" ideas drop when there is no "we" in what the Web site does here. (And you're hardly the one to talk about flooding the board with opinions.)

 

[SimonDoom]

You have any evidence beyond wishful thinking that I'm wrong with this particular opinion? It can really get irritating when the "we could" ideas drop when there is no "we" in what the Web site does here. (And you're hardly the one to talk about flooding the board with opinions.)

For Pete's sake, Keith, it's a light-hearted remark, not an insulting one. You are remarkably oblivious to tone. You are quite right: I have no evidence, and yes, I venture many opinions, many of which I admit are based on . . . not much. But I'm in good company on that score. I regard this as a casual social media forum where people should feel free to venture opinions without too much concern for whether they've been substantiated by careful research or analysis. The consequences of bad opinions are minimal in this place.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Nice point. The future of Lit right there.

People are perfectly capable of writing their own tags, not having a program do it for them. AI, as it exists now and maybe for a long time to come, is sophisticated programming, not true intelligence.

 

[KeithD]

I regard this as a casual social media forum where people should feel free to venture opinions without too much concern for whether they've been substantiated by careful research or analysis..

And yet when I've registered my observation on an observable Web site response over decades to suggestions for site tweaking, you called me out for being opinionated. Yes, I see. Of course you were/are just being ho, ho, ho.

Did I bring up the issue of being opinionated? Hmm, I don't think so.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I wasn't thinking of leaving... was that a hint?

No, but if the site did a chronological divide as Simon suggested, that line would need a signifier of some sort, and his nuts idea was inspired by you.

Not that it's ever going to happen. So you should stick around, learn to cope with categories, and we can all wait for New Tag day .

 

[ElectricBlue]

People are perfectly capable of writing their own tags, not having a program do it for them. AI, as it exists now and maybe for a long time to come, is sophisticated programming, not true intelligence.

I go to the tag libraries for the category I'm considering dropping the story into, check out the most commonly used tags (easily visible because of the size/usage differentiation), and pick the highest use/most applicable tags for my story. All ten of them - which is surely enough, even for picky readers (noting that many vocal complainers are on about you being able to mind read what they don't like, and tag accordingly).

If everyone did that (gee, an available tool already exists, what a good idea, let's use it), the most used tags would be used even more, and the lesser used duplicates would eventually fade from sight.

I don't see what the problem is, frankly. With both categories and tags available as they are, I'd have thought it's a adequate system, if a little basic. Sure, it could be improved, like most things, but all these ideas to get rid of features would send the site backwards. It's not that hard to find stuff you like, surely?

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think it would be a good idea, but only if authors could edit their tags without needing to resubmit.

All existing stories could just have one tag applied that is their current category, and an author could then decide to change that or leave it as is.

IIRC Manu has already indicated that the long-term goal is to increase the focus on tag-based navigation, with categories being interpreted like a tag (which would suit me fine).

I write stories that could have parts posted in varying categories, but since I always wait until the story is completed before posting, I am able to establish what category best fits the "sum of the whole" and remain true to the characters and the overall plot. Lit isn't mainstream publishing, but many authors here would benefit from adopting some of the standards and practices common there. No publisher is going to separate your chapters and publish them in different genres. Figure out what your whole story is about and deal with it.

"Mainstream publishing" already supports multiple genre listings for a single work!

For instance, here's how one well-known novel is categorised on Amazon:



I would love if I had the option to pick up to three categories for some of my stories here, because I know the current system hurts discoverability for works that don't fit neatly into a single category.

That's the problem with tags. The author types in whatever they choose to type, even with spelling errors.

This is the problem *with Literotica's current implementation of tags*. It is not an inherent feature of tag-based navigation.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

"Mainstream publishing" already supports multiple genre listings for a single work!

I agree, but they don't break the book apart to do so.

Being able to "share" the same story in multiple categories would be a good thing. Distributing it across multiple categories doesn't work for me. Use tags and other means to make the content more relevant to readers' interests.

 

[RejectReality]

Anyone who thinks AI is the answer to filling in tags for the existing library is off-base, IMO. The primary developers of this tech are doing everything in their power to prevent it from generating anything in the adult sphere. Anyone who is using open source versions to develop specifically for adult stuff is going to take advantage of the opportunity and monetize it to the point where small ( relatively speaking compared to full-on pr0n sites ) players won't be able to afford it. Lit would basically have to develop it on their own. It couldn't be a primary focus because there's too much else going on that's vital to survival in the here and now. That means it's going to be behind the curve. Everything right now is geared to going the opposite direction — taking keyword prompts and turning them into longform responses. I see no evidence that anyone is working on the reverse of that.

Another site where I post is attempting to unify disparate versions of tags and distill them down via automated process right now. It's decidedly janky and frustrating.

Another site has always had a structured tag system and tag-based navigation. I find the tag choice wholly inadequate much of the time. There's no tag for MILF. Creampie only refers to someone licking cum out of someone else. There's no tag for internal ejaculation on its own. It's fine for warning readers of content they might find objectionable, but extremely limited in its capacity to direct readers to things they might like. They do have a FAR larger descriptive paragraph, but that's only of use when its on the front page or someone is perusing your catalog. Searching isn't going to find those things you point out in the description. So if you have a male and female of the same race who aren't related in any way, 90% of the available tags don't apply. There's no way to differentiate your story from a multitude of others via the primary selection method unless they're engaging in a kink that might turn a lot of people off.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Personally, I like the idea of tags becoming the defacto category system. No, I don't expect it to happen. Still, categories are too broad and we've all seen multiple posts by people asking "Which category should I use for this story?"

I'd love to see a system where a reader could click on multiple tags - for example, gay + incest or any other combination you want to imagine.

 

[Voboy]

I'd love to see a system where a reader could click on multiple tags - for example, gay + incest or any other combination you want to imagine.

Have you tried the tags portal on this site? You can do exactly that...

You start with one, then it gives you options to add more on the right margin. I think you can narrow it down as far as you want, which is why this proposal puzzles me.

The functionality already exists. Or perhaps I'm missing something?

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Have you tried the tags portal on this site? You can do exactly that...

You start with one, then it gives you options to add more on the right margin. I think you can narrow it down as far as you want, which is why this proposal puzzles me.

The functionality already exists. Or perhaps I'm missing something?

Apparently I haven't - thanks for the tip!

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Have you tried the tags portal on this site? You can do exactly that...

You start with one, then it gives you options to add more on the right margin. I think you can narrow it down as far as you want, which is why this proposal puzzles me.

The functionality already exists. Or perhaps I'm missing something?

There is just one problem with the way tags work right now. If you misspell the tag, if you word it differently in any way, if you use different caps or punctuation, the tags simply do not link up with tags that have the same meaning. At the very least, the site should create an exhaustive list of fixed tags, so when an author wants to publish a story he would need to simply check the appropriate tags and he wouldn't be allowed to just write anything as his own tag.

 

[Voboy]

Apparently I haven't - thanks for the tip!

Yep. The upper right sorts by category, then you scroll down and you'll find additional tags (including misspelled ones). Each has an adjacent number telling you how many stories have those tags in common; predictably, the more tags you add, the lower the number gets.

For example, I now know there are just four stories that share "bisexual male," "gay anal," and "group" as tags. None of those are up my alley; I chose them at random. If that's what floats your boat? Cool! You've now got four tales that should get your motor running. There are even related tags off to the side, even after you get down that far, including things as diverse as "gay bukkake" and "asshole." I think I recall that when the Tags portal went active, Manu was quite proud of it; having read this thread, I now wonder whether many of us know about it.

As for categories in those four stories? One is in Group, two in GM, and one in TG/Cross. Maybe that'll help some readers narrow down; it certainly would help me.

 

[Voboy]

There is just one problem with the way tags work right now. If you misspell the tag, if you word it differently in any way, if you use different caps or punctuation, the tags simply do not link up with tags that have the same meaning. At the very least, the site should create an exhaustive list of fixed tags, so when an author wants to publish a story he would need to simply check the appropriate tags and he wouldn't be allowed to just write anything as his own tag.

Sure. The site could offer the writers a choice of accepted tags. Which it already does: they're called categories.

So you want to make more categories, in effect, and have many of them for each story. Maybe that's desirable, maybe not.

 

[HeadMstr]

Now that my story is published, is there any way to add tags that should have been included?

 

[alohadave]

Now that my story is published, is there any way to add tags that should have been included?

You'll have to submit an edit.

 

[HeadMstr]

You'll have to submit an edit.

How do I submit an edit for an already-published story? The tags really do need to be there.

 

[alohadave]

How do I submit an edit for an already-published story? The tags really do need to be there.

https://www.literotica.com/faq/publishing/editing-published-work

 

[bumpercars]

If you wanted (and assuming you had the dev budget), you could keep the existing portals and use tags behind the scenes. Have a romance portal, and make it display every story with the 'Romance' tag. Casual readers wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

One advantage would be that stories that crossed categories could just do that, without having to pick one category as the primary. Write a Sci-fi romance? Sci-fi and Romance readers could see it.

Putting categories and tags on an equal footing would also make search more effective, since today not all stories in a category have the name of that category as a tag. A story in the sci-fi category with the romance tag is trickier to find now than it would be if they were both searchable tags.

I think the limiting factor here is the dev effort this would require (a lot) and the amount of attention that writers would need to pay to the tags (more than right now), but you could add capabilities without losing any current ones.