Do you think that one day America could be governed by...

[p_p_man]

a majority Moslem party?

Reading on another thread that in some states, when using the telephone, the caller is asked to 'Press 1 for English' etc I got to thinking...

If it's got that bad over there I can definitely see it getting worse and as the number of immigrants continue at their present rate breeding 2nd generation and then third generation immigrants the WASP majority of the US will slowly be eroded away...

Europe has no problems with that. As largely Arab supporters we'll probably applaud an America which finally sees the world as it really is.

What the powerful jewish lobby will do though is another problem...

Possibly they'll revert back to their terrorist status...

ppman

 

[Guest]

I don't see it, ppm

 

[p_p_man]

Re: I don't see it, ppm

It took more than a century to elect a Catholic.

Your terms are a bit confusing. A Moslem party ? Lots of luck breaking the two party system.

There's also the consideration of money. You have to have a whole big pile of it in the American political game. Every immigrant isn't rich and contributions have to come from somewhere.

I wish I could answer a little better right now, ppm, but I've got to hit the hay.

Hope you're well,
L.

But I can see money from overseas being poured into a Moslem political group. Once they're deemed strong enough to have a stab at power.

ppman

 

[REDWAVE]

Demographic shift

A majority Muslim party, not likely. But the demographic shift of a huge increase in the Latino percentage of the populace will affect U.S. politics greatly over the next half century. It's already happened in California, where Caucasians are a minority (less than 50%) and a Latino came close to winning the last LA mayoral election. Long term, the trend looks very bad for the Republicans, and very good for the emergence of a new mass party to the left of the Democrats.

 

[70/30]

They'll find a way to disregard voters...my particular town has over 1million residents...60.6% are minority (39% are non-hispanic whites). 107,000 registered voters (the overwhelming majority were hispanic) signed a petition to put on the Nov 2002 ballot, an option to vote to prevent an ecologically stressful golf resort over our aquifer, which is our ONLY source of water (we only average 28inches of rain a year).

This 2800acre resort will use well over 1million gallons of water a day. Meanwhile, every summer we have strict regulations that only allow us to wash our car or water our lawns ONCE a week. That doesn't mention the chemical runoff that easily could pollute our aquifer. By the way, the developers provide the scientists to determine the pollution effect. Also this land is a nesting ground for the golden-cheeked warbler, which is endangered.

Because of those 107,000 registered voters that signed the petition--it was decided to shelve the resort's bid, knowing it would be denied by large numbers if brought to the voters.

A few weeks after the election, city counsel voted 10 to 1, now approving the developer's proposal. It was brought to court and the judge favored the developer and said the petitioners have no authority to request a vote on the issue. By the way, the developers get tax breaks plus a heap load of cash.

The petitioners are pissed, however they have no recourse---the city is run by Democrats and the officials are also overwhelmingly Hispanic. Cash Rules Everything Around Me

I figured water would rank somewhere high.

 

[p_p_man]

They'll find a way to disregard voters

I'm taking it as read that properly organised protest groups were set up. the media canvassed for their support and all the other paraphenalia that goes towards making a protest a success.

Unfortunately your story is not unique to your neck of the woods. You can see the same pattern repeated again and again all over the civilised world where money is the motivator.

Democrats I presume are not immune from this influence as the Labour Party isn't in the UK, and it's for that reason I would have thought the media would have screamed 'hypocrites' in their largest point size...

We're going through one of those moments in the UK where Cherie Blair, Tony's wife, is coming under intense media scrutiny because of her property dealings, the man she chose to represent her in those dealings and whether or not she interfered with a deportation order that had been made against him.

Bad story from your end and a bad result...

ppman

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: I don't see it, ppm

It took more than a century to elect a Catholic.

Your terms are a bit confusing. A Moslem party ? Lots of luck breaking the two party system.

There's also the consideration of money. You have to have a whole big pile of it in the American political game. Every immigrant isn't rich and contributions have to come from somewhere.

I wish I could answer a little better right now, ppm, but I've got to hit the hay.

Hope you're well,
L.

Money is not a problem, Lioness . . . at present Arab interests are currently divesting over $US 700 billion of assets held in the U$ . . . much to the worry of the Dubyah Shrub Administration . . . but then the U$ economy will be saved by the War for Control of Undeveloped Oil Reserves . . . with Iraq . . . and Iran . . . and Saudi Arabia . . .

To date Arab interests have only been interested in business . . . with the WASPS trying to rip-off thier oil reserves they may take more of an interest in politics, as the way to remove the U$ problem . . . a little bit of lateral thinking, perhaps . . .

 

[70/30]

I'm taking it as read that properly organised protest groups were set up.
ppman

The papers aren't allowed to use size 88 FONT in Texas and there is no independent (leftist/provocative) media around. There were several protest groups involved (one did force them to offer a "living wage" of $8.75 to $10 hour for the resort workers). No real marches but finding 107,000 registered voters is an accomplishment, no matter the outcome... in addition, city council threw out thousands of names that weren't eligible to sign.

I'm wondering if the people will remain pissed and actually show up at the polling booths again or fall into the disenfranchise trap. The Democrats had a Hispanic run for GOV and African-American run for the Senate this time, it resulted in record minority turn out...Republicans still won big (about 57-43). I hope they increasingly turn out instead of the inverse.

The issue won't go away---the Southside (poor, underdeveloped and full of minorities) will resent the Northside (rich, white and living over the watershed) even more. Every intermediate step there will be a lot of yelling and voter registration flashing---again it won't matter much---it's not like they are going to vote Republican for assistance.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: I don't see it, ppm

they may take more of an interest in politics, as the way to remove the U$ problem . . . a little bit of lateral thinking, perhaps . . .

But more or less how I thought it through for this thread...

ppman

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

They'll find a way to disregard voters...my particular town has over 1million residents...60.6% are minority (39% are non-hispanic whites). 107,000 registered voters (the overwhelming majority were hispanic) signed a petition to put on the Nov 2002 ballot, an option to vote to prevent an ecologically stressful golf resort over our aquifer, which is our ONLY source of water (we only average 28inches of rain a year).

This 2800acre resort will use well over 1million gallons of water a day. Meanwhile, every summer we have strict regulations that only allow us to wash our car or water our lawns ONCE a week. That doesn't mention the chemical runoff that easily could pollute our aquifer. By the way, the developers provide the scientists to determine the pollution effect. Also this land is a nesting ground for the golden-cheeked warbler, which is endangered.

Because of those 107,000 registered voters that signed the petition--it was decided to shelve the resort's bid, knowing it would be denied by large numbers if brought to the voters.

A few weeks after the election, city counsel voted 10 to 1, now approving the developer's proposal. It was brought to court and the judge favored the developer and said the petitioners have no authority to request a vote on the issue. By the way, the developers get tax breaks plus a heap load of cash.

The petitioners are pissed, however they have no recourse---the city is run by Democrats and the officials are also overwhelmingly Hispanic. Cash Rules Everything Around Me

I figured water would rank somewhere high.

That style of democracy sounds familiar to me. Did they do the 'Public Consultation' where they invite the views and comments of the residents and give them the impression that the public's views are important and then completly ignore them?

That's what happens here.

:0

 

[Don K Dyck]

Same in Oz . . .

That style of democracy sounds familiar to me. Did they do the 'Public Consultation' where they invite the views and comments of the residents and give them the impression that the public's views are important and then completly ignore them?

That's what happens here.

:0

Hey Jack Rabbit, I think our local politicians went to the same training school . . . same strategy . . . same "ignore the people" result . . . in Oz the best ones at it are the National Party, known locally as the Notional Party - the Party you have when you don't want anything done . . .

For example, the major international airport in Oz is Kingsford Smith Airport (KSA) in Sydney . . . Leader of the Notional Party and Minister for Transport and Member for the regional electorate next door electorate that is losing more people than any other electorate in the country, is John Arrogance, oops! sorry, Anderson . . . it is just his attitude that is totally arrogant . . .

So who wants a job as a non-Executive director with a merchant bank after retirement from politics in say, 2004?? . . . So, you want to buy KSA?? OK, we'll get rid of the low return intra-state airlines by allowing the Department of Transport to up the charges through the roof . . . that will force them into receivership . . . without lifting an electoral finger . . . too bad those landing slots revert to the high charging international allocation after 12 months NOT being used for local airline landings . . .

Sound familiar, or do I need to give more examples of how to screw the regional areas for the benefit of your next employer . . .?

 

[miles]

AMAZING!

Seven of these first nine posters are on ignore. I bet there is some serious debate going on in there.

 

[Starblayde]

AMAZING!

Seven of these first nine posters are on ignore. I bet there is some serious debate going on in there.

rotflmfao

 

[Don K Dyck]

. . . Rather Than Open Your Mouth and Prove it . . .

AMAZING!

Seven of these first nine posters are on ignore. I bet there is some serious debate going on in there.

heheheh . . . stay on "Igore" Mules . . . that way you don't demonstrate your ignorance . . .

 

[miles]

Re: . . . Rather Than Open Your Mouth and Prove it . . .

heheheh . . . stay on "Igore" Mules . . . that way you don't demonstrate your ignorance . . .

I could never put you on ignore. You're an easier target than pp_man. Besides, who else is going to bust your balls when you say stupid things like "the Supreme Court violated the Constitution?" then pretend I didn't ask you for a specific example. And you call me ignorant?

Try following your own advice about demonstrating your ignorance.

Hee-haw.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Re: . . . Rather Than Open Your Mouth and Prove it . . .

I could never put you on ignore. You're an easier target than pp_man. Besides, who else is going to bust your balls when you say stupid things like "the Supreme Court violated the Constitution?" then pretending like I didn't ask you for a specific example. And you call me ignorant?

Try following your own advice about demonstarting your ignorance.

Hee-haw.

I don't know why America bothers with the Constitution anyway...

It's only a scrap of historical set of rules which has retarded the development of your country over the years...

It doesn't give you any room for natural growth...

ppman

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

Re: Same in Oz . . .

Hey Jack Rabbit, I think our local politicians went to the same training school . . . same strategy . . . same "ignore the people" result . . . in Oz the best ones at it are the National Party, known locally as the Notional Party - the Party you have when you don't want anything done . . .

Our local authority used to be like that. We didn't realise how lucky we were!

Then New Labour came along and gave them a bright new coat of enthusiasitic stupidity and misspelled 'democracy' as 'dictatorship.'

One of the first things they tackled was the primary schools. 'Too many empty places,' they said. 'Let's close some.' So they drew up a list of criteria to pick suitable candidates - suitability of building, financial state of school, performance, location... and then picked the ones that had the best real estate value.

They consulted with the parents and faced with an over whelming lack of support for the proposals, went ahead anyway. There were two changes to the scheme - one following a judical review bought by parents claiming that their school should stay open; the other following the collapse of a proposed housing development (closing the school would have provided more land for the development.)

My kids school was closed. We saw the plans for the new school and said things like "Balconies are a bad idea - get rid of them. The hall is not big enough for dinner time and assemblies. The gates are next to a busy turn off into a housing estate from a very busy main road. It is stuck in the middle of a notoriously bad housing estate where there is a shooting once a week...'

Our comments were recorded and the school built.

Contractors walked off the site, not wanting to be part of a school which they considered was unsafe, using inappropriate building materials for the job and unsuitable fittings for stairways.

The school was finished behind schedule and the kids started back late - work was still being carried out while they were there.

Teachers assure us that the doors to the balconies will NOT be opened, in the interests of safety. The hall isn't big enough to accommodate the pupils. The dinner tables and chairs have to be moved out for PE and assembly. The wooded decking providing access to the junior school (it's on two levels with a split level playground and no fence between the upper and lower play areas - a fifteen foot drop! Yes, it did get a health and safety certificate!!!) gets covered in ice and has to be closed off, and when wet, is also like an ice rink....

Ah, democracy in action.

Not representing people, just political parties.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

I suppose anything is possible, no matter how unlikely.

So, what are the odds that Great Brittian, Germany, or France would accept a muslim leadership? Probably about the same. People in power never give it up without a struggle. See, sometimes when one starts to wonder aloud, it opens a pandora's box of possibly being shown in a light unfavorable to a position they espouse.

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

I suppose anything is possible, no matter how unlikely.

So, what are the odds that Great Brittian, Germany, or France would accept a muslim leadership? Probably about the same. People in power never give it up without a struggle. See, sometimes when one starts to wonder aloud, it opens a pandora's box of possibly being shown in a light unfavorable to a position they espouse.

It all depends on enough people getting up off their asses and going out and voting to prevent it.

We're doomed, all doomed.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

We're doomed, all doomed.

Mad, you're one odd little critter. That has nothing to do with your post or this thread, I just wanted to tell ya that.

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

Your stalking me.

Very Badly.

 

[miles]

Re: Re: Re: . . . Rather Than Open Your Mouth and Prove it . . .

I don't know why America bothers with the Constitution anyway...

It's only a scrap of historical set of rules which has retarded the development of your country over the years...

It doesn't give you any room for natural growth...

ppman

Right, guvnah. Spot on with that comment. The Constitution has retarded our country's development. Good Lord.

What is "natural growth?"

You must be taking lessons in senseless rhetoric from your mentor, Donkey.

 

[Problem Child]

Re: Demographic shift

A majority Muslim party, not likely. But the demographic shift of a huge increase in the Latino percentage of the populace will affect U.S. politics greatly over the next half century. It's already happened in California, where Caucasians are a minority (less than 50%) and a Latino came close to winning the last LA mayoral election. Long term, the trend looks very bad for the Republicans, and very good for the emergence of a new mass party to the left of the Democrats.

Latinos will never be a "mass party to the left of the democrats".

By and large, latinos hold very strong the values of family and hard work, and are very resistant to accepting government help. They will continue to be largely democratic, but will hold very close to the right of the party. Even George Bush got around 40% of the latino vote in the last election, I believe.

I think they will be the last group to join in your workers revolution, red.

 

[Dantetier]

Re: Demographic shift

It's already happened in California, where Caucasians are a minority (less than 50%) and a Latino came close to winning the last LA mayoral election.

Are you implying that there is somethine wrong with the possibility of a Latino Mayor in LA?

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Re: Same in Oz . . .

Our local authority used to be like that. We didn't realise how lucky we were!

Then New Labour came along and gave them a bright new coat of enthusiasitic stupidity and misspelled 'democracy' as 'dictatorship.'

One of the first things they tackled was the primary schools. 'Too many empty places,' they said. 'Let's close some.' So they drew up a list of criteria to pick suitable candidates - suitability of building, financial state of school, performance, location... and then picked the ones that had the best real estate value.

They consulted with the parents and faced with an over whelming lack of support for the proposals, went ahead anyway. There were two changes to the scheme - one following a judical review bought by parents claiming that their school should stay open; the other following the collapse of a proposed housing development (closing the school would have provided more land for the development.)

My kids school was closed. We saw the plans for the new school and said things like "Balconies are a bad idea - get rid of them. The hall is not big enough for dinner time and assemblies. The gates are next to a busy turn off into a housing estate from a very busy main road. It is stuck in the middle of a notoriously bad housing estate where there is a shooting once a week...'

Our comments were recorded and the school built.

Contractors walked off the site, not wanting to be part of a school which they considered was unsafe, using inappropriate building materials for the job and unsuitable fittings for stairways.

The school was finished behind schedule and the kids started back late - work was still being carried out while they were there.

Teachers assure us that the doors to the balconies will NOT be opened, in the interests of safety. The hall isn't big enough to accommodate the pupils. The dinner tables and chairs have to be moved out for PE and assembly. The wooded decking providing access to the junior school (it's on two levels with a split level playground and no fence between the upper and lower play areas - a fifteen foot drop! Yes, it did get a health and safety certificate!!!) gets covered in ice and has to be closed off, and when wet, is also like an ice rink....

Ah, democracy in action.

Not representing people, just political parties.

heheheh . . . yep!! They all went to the same training school . . .

At Nelson Bay, a beautiful sea-side harbour, the local high school was built on prime sand dune real estate and the holiday apartment land was just about all sold . . . so once the Liberal Party, which represents big business, got back into power in the State and guess what? . . . they recommended selling the sand dune site of about 20 acres to developers and building a new high school down next to the poorly located supermarket complex . . . in the middle of a drained swamp . . . building started during a drought and the site flooded with the first rains, halting work and delaying schooling . . .

Now there is a new breed of mosquitoes migrating across the road from the swamp to feast on students . . . (one new student didn't duck as the whirr of approaching mosquitoes was heard and he was carried away, screaming . . . police are dragging the swamp . . .)

Meanwhile a change of government to Labor and the bureaucrats got busted doing deals with developers . . . selling influence for the provision of a $40,000 tennis court . . . but it was OK . . . nobody got sacked . . .