Do You Really Listen?

[Comshaw]

No problem. We all feel pretty much the same. But in your list...



You forgot to include a whole shit-load of "H's"

Thanks. I'm kinda proud of those.


Comshaw

 

[CyranoJ]

Of course you won't. Arrogance and an overblown ego prohibits anything approaching mannerly behavior. Run away! Run away! from The Beast of Caerbannog.

I mean... you just got through saying at length that you were going to stop being part of the problem, man. Maybe put him on 'Ignore' if you just can't help responding to him?

(This does tie back into the main subject of the OP's post: if certain people just enrage you, simply cutting them out of your forum experience -- just as with your comments section -- is a perfectly valid decision. It's how I'm able to tolerate these forums at all, frankly.)

 

[Comshaw]

I mean... you just got through saying at length that you were going to stop being part of the problem, man.

Please reread what I said. I said I'd TRY to stop.

Post #97

But I will try to keep shut and let this thread get back on track.

Comshaw

 

[CyranoJ]

Please reread what I said. I said I'd TRY to stop.

I know. "That's hardly a promise," as David Carradine's Bill once said.

But one can always try harder, or attempt alternative solutions. You were, to be clear, 100% correct to intuit how fucking tiresome this particular shitfight is for many of us who have no dog in the proverbial fight.

Of course, I could always just take my own medicine and put both of your asses on Ignore. But really, it's something I try not to do lightly. I always try other alternatives first.

 

[Comshaw]

You dropped in on me with a personal attack and about ten minutes of knowledge of AH history. I didn't start up on you. You started up on me. You're a belligerent hypocrite. You have no relevance on this.

Oh look, you weren't going to read any of my posts, right? AH history means jack. I've been on Lit and the GB 20+ years but it wouldn't matter if I'd only been here 20 minutes. I'm as relevant as you are at any point 20 years or 20 minutes, it makes no difference.

You did start on me and everyone else that posted on this thread by your arrogant diatribe on how we weren't giving good advice, didn't know what we were talking about yada, yada , yada.

In case you've forgotten what you said, here's the quote:
page 3, Post #74

And I guess in addition to that, I hold that most of you don't have the chops to be telling anyone else how to write better (beyond mastering the technicals better) and that most of you do so to puff yourself up rather than any interest or concern for the one you are lording it over with your version of a "developing" critique. Most of the advice I see given on this board is unnecessarily limiting to creative writing and often just plain wrong.

I'm belligerent, that's true. I aggressively go head to head with those who try to disparage me or others LIKE YOU DID. But you're going to have to prove the hypocrite charge. It doesn't fit nor can you produce anything that supports it. A red herring to try to derail the conversation from what the real issue is, your egocentric detestable actions. I have no relevance on this? Oh, well damn I guess I'll just tuck tail and run because you said so, huh? Uh hu, yeah, right.

Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

I know. "That's hardly a promise," as David Carradine's Bill once said.

But one can always try harder, or attempt alternative solutions. You were, to be clear, 100% correct to intuit how fucking tiresome this particular shitfight is for many of us who have no dog in the proverbial fight.

Of course, I could always just take my own medicine and put both of your asses on Ignore. But really, it's something I try not to do lightly. I always try other alternatives first.

I promised I'd TRY not to continue. It didn't work. You have a right to do or try what ever you want to. Ignore would work well for you if you find the "shit fight" to tiresome. And shit fight it is. But it bothers me not at all. I spent three years running a septic truck and 20 years on the GB dealing with KD's type. . I'm use to the smell.


Comshaw

 

[CyranoJ]

You have a right to do or try whatever you want to.

Way ahead of you, bro.

Just for the record, though: apologies to the thread, the readership, or anyone else are only actually meaningful if your behavior also changes. A little cheddar-flavored goldfish to take with you into future experiences. Good luck!

 

[KeithD]

(This does tie back into the main subject of the OP's post: if certain people just enrage you, simply cutting them out of your forum experience -- just as with your comments section -- is a perfectly valid decision. It's how I'm able to tolerate these forums at all, frankly.)

Which is what I chose to do some time ago, since he had nothing but uninformed abuse to add to the discussion. He wasn't amused.

 

[CyranoJ]

Which is what I chose to do some time ago, since he had nothing but uninformed abuse to add to the discussion. He wasn't amused.

I'm broadly in sympathy with your points, but also to be honest: when I put someone on ignore, I really actually do ignore them (unless the subject is trivial and unlikely to lead to controversy). It's made the forums a lot easier to deal with. Of course, I do not urge you to any particular course of action.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzq3npgkyf1rpexeoo9_250.gifv

 

[Comshaw]

Way ahead of you, bro.

Just for the record, though: apologies to the thread, the readership, or anyone else are only actually meaningful if your behavior also changes. A little cheddar-flavored goldfish to take with you into future experiences. Good luck!

Sorry BRO, but an apology can be real and still make room for an action when called for. I was sincere in the apology. It doesn't however mean I need to nor will kowtow to anyone any time. Ain't gonna happen. A little kimchi flavored nugget to take with you.

But I tell you what, let me summarize the goings-on and then I'll leave it lay because KD is going to keep nattering at this and I grow weary of arguing with a self-centered egotistical arse, who much like many I've encountered on the GB will consider getting the last word a win.

KD insults everyone who posted with a "I know everything and you troglodytes know nothing" attitude. I called him on it for being disrespectful. Granted my language choice wasn't the most politically correct or mannerly, but it's what I chose and got my point across.

In subsequent posts, KD insisted I was denigrating the advice he has given and attacking his stories, neither of which I ever addressed. It was his attempt to draw the back and forth away from the sole reason I took him to task, insulting everyone in the thread for no other reason than his fragile, bruised ego.

Nothing I've said here has a thing to do with anything other than what he said and his actions HERE.

Actually, we are at an impasse. He hasn't the character to admit he shouldn't have done what he did, I don't have the tolerance for that kind of behavior to let it slide.

Here's another little nugget (bile flavored for some I'm sure) to watch for, I won't tolerate it any other time either.

With that, I will lay this instance to rest and let it go.


Comshaw

 

[CyranoJ]

KD insults everyone who posted with a "I know everything and you troglodytes know nothing" attitude.

He didn't insult "everyone," actually. At a certain point, after going off on a bizarrely passive-aggressive couple of comments from the OP, he said that "most of you" don't have the chops to constructively critique creative writing.

You can agree or disagree with that, as you please. I get that KD (whom I assume to be a relatively recently-new account for Pilot) is oftentimes more than a bit of a dick even when he happens to be correct. But there is no actual need for you to feel seen in the category "most of you." Or to be so fucking defensive about it. Or to feel some kind of way about his "attitude" or that you are being required to "kowtow" to it or even really care at all what KD thinks on the topic of Literotica "gurus." All of that came from you.

Anyway, I'll leave it there myself, I don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to play Thread Ref.

 

[gordo12]

He didn't insult "everyone," actually. At a certain point, after going off on a bizarrely passive-aggressive couple of comments from the OP, he said that "most of you" don't have the chops to constructively critique creative writing.

Bizarrely? Or perhaps so sick of his constant running down, demeaning, condescending, insulting comments that it takes very little to lose it over his stupidity. You might have noticed a whole lot of people here feel the same way.

 

[Emirus]

******************************
ORIGINALLY posted by COMSHAW

“To begin and to be clear, I never comment on a story unless it's one that is above and beyond everything else. An exceptional read should be recognized for what it is. The reason I don't comment is I don't feel qualified to do so, plain and simple. But that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to those who comment on my stories. Those two are separate kettles of fish.”

******************************

With all due respect I think you’ve got the idea of making helpful comments all wrong.

Forget about the comments which tell the writer they are the best author ever. Although it’s nice to receive complimentary comments such as these which may be good for the ego but aren’t helpful. As for the comments telling someone they wrote absolute rubbish they should just be ignored.

But only commenting on stories which you think are outstanding is good for that writer’s ego, if they have one, but does nothing to help those writers who aren’t that good but could benefit from, and be grateful for, any positive and constructive advice you would like to give them. Even if someone isn’t a writer themselves, but is an enthusiastic reader, they can still give good advice.

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete in the world to be a great coach.

I haven’t read any of your stories, and you’ve published many in the last eighteen months, but they all seem to have been well received so you must be doing something right. Don’t you think you leaving constructive comment on a story, in addition to those you consider extra special, would benefit the writer and they would be grateful for any advice you can give?

 

[CyranoJ]

Bizarrely?

A bit, yeah. Though I get that Pilot's history here is what it is.

 

[gordo12]

A bit, yeah. Though I get that Pilot's history here is what it is.

It is. And it drives a lot of anger on this board. Mine comes from his constant I'm above you all responses. Based on his fan stats, he isn't above. He's way below. You'll notice he didn't step into that issue

This is the one that started this little brouhaha.

"Sorry, I don't feel guilty about "listening to" or not "listening to" comments from strangers. And I'm not here to improve my writing. I'm here to share writing I was going to do anyway. It is what it is--and what it will be. This ain't The New Yorker, and I'm not William S. Hemingway--or even trying to be."

Now I could have used another word than Guilty (act) that he twisted into his own guilty (feeling). I could have used incorporate or dozens of other words that ask if you listen to the advice you get—the point of the post.

His post followed his usual attitude of being above us all, and I've warned him in the past that I would be in his face if he does it around me.

 

[lovecraft68]

You have no idea what you are talking about. KD is a trained editor with more years of experience than most of you have been writing. Yeah, he's harsh and opinionated but in a lot of ways, he has put in his time and a lot of the time, he's right but a lot of people don't want to hear it.

This gangbang has gotten way out of hand.

I know, the nerve of people getting tired of being denigrated and insulted by an arrogant bully, and giving it back to him so he can then spend the rest of the thread playing victim.

Kids these days am I right?

You should really look at this with the good eye. If he wants to dish it out, he needs to take it.

 

[lovecraft68]

It is. And it drives a lot of anger on this board. Mine comes from his constant I'm above you all responses. Based on his fan stats, he isn't above. He's way below. You'll notice he didn't step into that issue

This is the one that started this little brouhaha.

"Sorry, I don't feel guilty about "listening to" or not "listening to" comments from strangers. And I'm not here to improve my writing. I'm here to share writing I was going to do anyway. It is what it is--and what it will be. This ain't The New Yorker, and I'm not William S. Hemingway--or even trying to be."

Now I could have used another word than Guilty (act) that he twisted into his own guilty (feeling). I could have used incorporate or dozens of other words that ask if you listen to the advice you get—the point of the post.

His post followed his usual attitude of being above us all, and I've warned him in the past that I would be in his face if he does it around me.

His bullying and BS is his insecurity, the case in all bullies. His work is not well received here, why? I have no idea, nor do I care, except that's why we have to hear 24/7 how meaningless this site, its readers and all its authors are.
at.

In nutshell he's the kid who didn't get picked to play football and walked away kicking rocks and saying I didn't want to play anyway.

Kind of sad.

 

[8letters]

Now, where were we before all that unpleasantness?

That all depends on the writer. From your earlier comments it appears you have no problem trusting and accepting criticism from editors or beta readers but refuse to even consider any from a commentor on your stories. The story you told about the comments you received on huge paragraphs is telling. You dismissed it out of hand (using emotion rather than logic) because it didn't come from a trusted source.

Let me try this a different way. Let me talk about some of the comments I receive.
* I get comments that are flat out unhelpful. Like "Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. I don't care if you report me. This is shit. I won't say anything, others have alreday said it."
* The first comment on one of my stories is that I used "life" instead of "live". Almost every story has a few minor mistakes. Telling me that there's a minor mistake isn't telling me something I didn't know in general
* I have a brother-sister story where, towards the end, the sister tells the brother that their relationship isn't going to work long-term and that he should go back to his girlfriend. And then the sister helps the brother and his girlfriend patch up their relationship. Many commenters hate that the brother got back together with his girlfriend and feel that the brother and sister should have stayed together. But that wasn't the story I wanted to tell
* I regularly get comments that my stories are too long, and that they shouldn't be any longer than 3-4 pages. I get these comments on stories with 4.8 ratings with lots of comments. I laugh at such comments
* I get comments that don't mesh with my experience as a writer. "Seems like this is your longest story to date but wow, is it boring. Really poor story telling and the length of this story just enhances that fact. Exposition, dude. Look up the meaning. In terms of the story, where is it? You need to learn how to use narrative rather than just telling people things. It's lazy writing. Been a while since you started writing but it doesn't look like you've actually grown as a writer as you're still making the same mistakes as you did in your first story. Take the time to learn. Get better editors or maybe you just need to listen to your editor if they say something negative rather than thinking you know best. I'm not sure which scenario you fit into there." I've grown tremendously as a writer, my stories now do very well, and I listen to a lot of beta-readers in addition to my editor. None of this resonates with me
* I get comments that might be providing good advice, but they don't have enough context to make any sense. "Exposition, dude. Look up the meaning," doesn't give me enough to help me find where I could have written better
* I get comments requesting that I put the commenter's favorite kink into the story, such as anal or impregnation

I'd suggest that all of those comments were left in an attempt to help me improve as a writer. I think it's really hard to leave a good critical comment, particularly if you're just popping one off without a lot of thought. As I said before, critical comments give me only a vague feeling of where I can improve. I can't think of any comments were I said, "Oh, yeah! I've been doing that wrong."

So here's my challenge to you, Comshaw and SimonDoom - Read my story A Week at the Lake with My Sister and leave a comment on one of my chapters that you think is helpful. I recommend chapter 4 or 5, as I'm going to write alternative versions of those chapters. Spend as much time as you normally would when you leave a comment. And let me give you feedback on helpful the comment is.

 

[SimonDoom]

So here's my challenge to you, Comshaw and SimonDoom - Read my story A Week at the Lake with My Sister and leave a comment on one of my chapters that you think is helpful. I recommend chapter 4 or 5, as I'm going to write alternative versions of those chapters. Spend as much time as you normally would when you leave a comment. And let me give you feedback on helpful the comment is.

I'm going to decline, and I say this as someone who is a fan, generally, of your stories and the way you craft them. You've got a different approach to writing incest from my approach, but your style has influenced my style somewhat (especially in my latest brother-sister incest story), and sometimes I think you hit it out of the park. I really liked Lingerie-Loving Sister. That was terrific. Your bicycle story was earlier and rougher but was good, too -- I felt like I was reading about real people. I read the first chapter of your Week At The Lake series and didn't care for it as much and didn't continue with subsequent chapters. I wasn't interested in the characters or their motivations, and because of the way you write your stories, that's a crucial element in their appeal. I didn't think it was as good as some of your other stuff.

However, I think your invitation is a positive step in this thread, so within the next few days I'll read another of your stories and give feedback that I hope can be helpful and constructive for future stories. The European Vacation story has been on my list for a long time so maybe I'll read that one, or maybe the latest one, which is going gangbusters as number 1 on the 30-day list and killing my Summer At The Lake With My Sister story, which is number 4.

I hope you will reciprocate by reading and commenting on one of mine.

 

[CyranoJ]

Based on his fan stats, he isn't above. He's way below.

'Kay. I mean, presumably, we all know that fan stats aren't a definitive measure of anything, really. I was reasonably proud of my unbroken-until-now string of H's but I wasn't really getting an "I'm a great author" high off of it. The whole thing is capricious and doesn't necessarily reward "good" writing.

If, however -- and I swear to fucking God this is my last outing in Presuming to Advise People in this thread -- he's "way below," he should also be below notice and beneath petty retaliation. Seems to me that's how that should work?

But, you know, whatevs. Do your thing.

 

[gordo12]

'Kay. I mean, presumably, we all know that fan stats aren't a definitive measure of anything, really. I was reasonably proud of my unbroken-until-now string of H's but I wasn't really getting an "I'm a great author" high off of it. The whole thing is capricious and doesn't necessarily reward "good" writing.

If, however -- and I swear to fucking God this is my last outing in Presuming to Advise People in this thread -- he's "way below," he should also be below notice and beneath petty retaliation. Seems to me that's how that should work?

But, you know, whatevs. Do your thing.

Look at your own. Almost 25 followers per story. Readers react by following wanting to read more of your stuff. Here and at Smash he has bupkiss, 2.4 av story here, 2.8 followers av PER YEAR at Smash. Nothing to boast about as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, he could show his voter stats. I remember him pissed off at a contest because he couldn't even clear twenty-five votes. And his average comment/story.

Nobody's got the chops? Well, let's see his!

 

[CyranoJ]

Look at your own. Almost 25 followers per story. Readers react by following wanting to read more of your stuff.

Well... huzzah! I guess I should feel good about that, innit?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/hu7pO4ZtjglCJfa9KQ/200.webp?cid=ecf05e47sh41c57zsskk6cgfbmqsu917fxaxjkk1e2o131vy&rid=200.webp&ct=g

I do see your point.

 

[HectorBidon]

It's pretty much only here on the AH that people think that the main reason for having story comments is to provide an author with constructive criticism for improving his writing skills. It seems to me that most commenters are like the farmhand in "Of Mice and Men." They just want to participate, to have their voices heard:

’I read your mag for six years and I think it is the best on the market. I like stories by Peter Rand. I think he is a whing-ding. Give us more like the Dark Rider. I don’t write many letters. Just thought I would tell you I think your mag is the best dime’s worth I ever spent.’

Some commenters raise their voices in a negative way, a few offer critical advice. But most, in my opinion, just want to let an author know that their story rang true and was appreciated. That's pretty much why I leave comments too.

 

[gordo12]

Well... huzzah! I guess I should feel good about that, innit?

I do see your point.

fuck, I don't know where my head was last night. I'm having some back and neck problems and the doc has me on some strong pain killers. It's a hair under 30 per story. Not 25! Geesh!

 

[8letters]

However, I think your invitation is a positive step in this thread, so within the next few days I'll read another of your stories and give feedback that I hope can be helpful and constructive for future stories. The European Vacation story has been on my list for a long time so maybe I'll read that one, or maybe the latest one, which is going gangbusters as number 1 on the 30-day list and killing my Summer At The Lake With My Sister story, which is number 4.

I hope you will reciprocate by reading and commenting on one of mine.

Sounds good. I'll post a comment on your latest after you post a comment on one of mine.