Do you own your body?

[ll74]

Note,

Boomer is stating Lit posts...I am calling him on that.

Not sure about many, but to me pro choice is not ambiguous. A woman has full ability to choose her medical care during pregnancy. (As well as any other time) This includes abortion and should not be limited at any time for any reason. I certainly also support a physician's right to advise and provide appropriate care according to the needs of their patient.

And I'm pro choice in that regard.

I don't object to others disagreeing with me and will always recommend that ALL folks lobby their reps and exercise their right to vote, no matter their views. (Doesn't matter the issue they are concerned with either)

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

You have? Funny I'm here too, and I haven't. Put up or shut up Boomer. You know the drill you made the claim, post em.

Sounds like you identify as pro choice and support drawing the 23 weeks. By that definition, the difference between your view and a common view is eight weeks.

It’s my impression that the OP and others on this thread think there should be no restrictions at all and that the entire issue should be up to the woman, not the government. Maybe I’ve misinterpreted their posts. Hope so. Maybe the only thing dividing people on this issue is a difference between drawing a line at 12 to 15 or 23 weeks.

 

[adrina]

Note,

Boomer is stating Lit posts...I am calling him on that.

That's him doing the usual assumption, given that they interpret people who trust women to make the decision as radical baby killers.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Sounds like you identify as pro choice and support drawing the 23 weeks. By that definition, the difference between your view and a common view is eight weeks.

It’s my impression that the OP and others on this thread think there should be no restrictions at all and that the entire issue should be up to the woman, not the government. Maybe I’ve misinterpreted their posts. Hope so. Maybe the only thing dividing people on this issue is a difference between drawing a line at 12 to 15 or 23 weeks.

I am not pro choice, I am against abortion. What I am in favour of is the right for each person to have control over their body. I have stated this many times, and it shows that either you can't comprehend, or you just didn't read the posts.

 

[adrina]

Sounds like you identify as pro choice and support drawing the 23 weeks. By that definition, the difference between your view and a common view is eight weeks.

It’s my impression that the OP and others on this thread think there should be no restrictions at all and that the entire issue should be up to the woman, not the government. Maybe I’ve misinterpreted their posts. Hope so. Maybe the only thing dividing people on this issue is a difference between drawing a line at 12 to 15 or 23 weeks.

NAME ONE DOCUMENTED INSTANCE OF AN ELECTIVE ABORTION IN THE 7TH, 8TH OR 9TH MONTH OF PREGNANCY.

REPEATEDLY ASKING DOESN'T SEEM TO GET ANY RESULTS.

YOU KEEP DEBATING THIS AS IF WOMEN ARE GOING OUT AND ELECTIVELY ABORTING AT 8 MONTHS.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

YOU KEEP DEBATING THIS AS IF WOMEN ARE GOING OUT AND ELECTIVELY ABORTING AT 8 MONTHS.

It's all he has....emotion towards a reality that doesn't exist.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Not sure about many, but to me pro choice is not ambiguous. A woman has full ability to choose her medical care during pregnancy. (As well as any other time) This includes abortion and should not be limited at any time for any reason. I certainly also support a physician's right to advise and provide appropriate care according to the needs of their patient.

And I'm pro choice in that regard.

I don't object to others disagreeing with me and will always recommend that ALL folks lobby their reps and exercise their right to vote, no matter their views. (Doesn't matter the issue they are concerned with either)

Appreciate you being clear about your position. It sounds very different than Fuzzy and Rob’s. They both identify as pro choice and fall within in the 51% as Gallup framed the question. As part of the 51% crowd myself who prefers a 12 to 15 week restriction, my view is closer to theirs than it is to yours.

But my point isn’t about who is right or who is wrong. It’s about the importance of defining these labels. The Gallup polling shows that most Americans support restrictions on abortion regardless of whether they label themselves pro choice or pro life.

 

[adrina]

It's all he has....emotion towards a reality that doesn't exist.

Anti abortion folks are typically hysterical and dishonest. I understand worst case scenario thought processes, but for healthcare issues affecting just about everyone in society we should be basing the discussion around the realities. What actually happens.

I have never ever read about, found, seen, heard of or otherwise had any knowledge of any elective abortion happening so late in pregnancy. Ever. I've asked in this thread repeatedly as (mostly) men go about debating reproductive rights through that lens and have never received an answer.

Later term abortions are tragedies for the families because it is a pregnancy gone wrong that cannot be saved. The hysteria of these folks who insist on discussing late term abortions in an elective fashion has made it very difficult for the women in these horrific situations to get the help they need.

At this point anyone who mentions late term abortions is a moron. And a liar.

 

[ll74]

Appreciate you being clear about your position. It sounds very different than Fuzzy and Rob’s. They both identify as pro choice and fall within in the 51% as Gallup framed the question. As part of the 51% crowd myself who prefers a 12 to 15 week restriction, my view is closer to theirs than it is to yours.

But my point isn’t about who is right or who is wrong. It’s about the importance of defining these labels. The Gallup polling shows that most Americans support restrictions on abortion regardless of whether they label themselves pro choice or pro life.

Agreed. The majority of Americans were fine with the viability measure and continue to be. Most measures being decided upon at the state level go far beyond that. Ohio being the exception at this time.

Unfortunately the pro-life coalition is lying to supporters about the measure. Their signs say "protect parental rights" and tell people to vote "no" when, in fact, parents" rights would not be obstructed in any way by the measure.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I am not pro choice, I am against abortion. What I am in favour of is the right for each person to have control over their body. I have stated this many times, and it shows that either you can't comprehend, or you just didn't read the posts.

The context is about the law and the role of government, not personal views. If you were surveyed by Gallup, which of the 3 choices they gave most closely fits your view?

 

[Rotadom]

Poor boomer. lol.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Anti abortion folks are typically hysterical and dishonest. I understand worst case scenario thought processes, but for healthcare issues affecting just about everyone in society we should be basing the discussion around the realities. What actually happens.

I have never ever read about, found, seen, heard of or otherwise had any knowledge of any elective abortion happening so late in pregnancy. Ever. I've asked in this thread repeatedly as (mostly) men go about debating reproductive rights through that lens and have never received an answer.

Later term abortions are tragedies for the families because it is a pregnancy gone wrong that cannot be saved. The hysteria of these folks who insist on discussing late term abortions in an elective fashion has made it very difficult for the women in these horrific situations to get the help they need.

At this point anyone who mentions late term abortions is a moron. And a liar.

If you were a respondent to the Gallup poll, which of the 3 choices would you give?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Poor boomer. lol.

Which of the 3 choices in the Gallup poll best fits your view?

 

[Rotadom]

Which of the 3 choices in the Gallup poll best fits your view?

People who answer polls are usually landlocked old people who tend to lean toward the Christian Right on their landlines.

I realize critical thinking an independent thought are difficult for you but that's not my fault.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Gallup asked the following question. 34% chose A. 51% chose B. 13% chose C. If they’d polled me, my answer would be B. What’s yours?

Do you think abortions should be:​

A. legal under any circumstances​

B. legal only under certain circumstances​

C. illegal in all circumstances?​

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

People who answer polls are usually landlocked old people who tend to lean toward the Christian Right on their landlines.

I realize critical thinking an independent thought are difficult for you but that's not my fault.

If you don’t want to answer the question that’s fine.

 

[TinaG_2023]

Ohio Issue 1 proposal wording: (for info)

Recent Baldwin Wallace University poll shows 58% favor passing issue 1. An article from Cleveland fox8 news.

 

[Rotadom]

If you don’t want to answer the question that’s fine.

I don't need your unwanted approval for my actions. That's an inherent problem with you lot.

 

[ll74]

Recent Baldwin Wallace University poll shows 58% favor passing issue 1. An article from Cleveland fox8 news.

I have provided information to friends and family to make an informed decision (on all issues, including 2, which allows everyone to grow two marijuana plants in their house, but I digress)

The alternative law on the books is shit, IMHO, and should be repealed.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I don't need your unwanted approval for my actions. That's an inherent problem with you lot.

There is no right or wrong answer to the poll question. Everyone has a right to their opinion. If you prefer not to answer I have no problem with that.

 

[Rotadom]

There is no right or wrong answer to the poll question. Everyone has a right to their opinion. If you prefer not to answer I have no problem with that.

This unwarranted arrogance amuses me.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The context is about the law and the role of government, not personal views. If you were surveyed by Gallup, which of the 3 choices they gave most closely fits your view?

That abortion is legal, at any point in the pregnancy. It's her body.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

That abortion is legal, at any point in the pregnancy. It's her body.

Thanks. That lines up with the first of the three choices in the Gallup poll.

 

[adrina]

Thanks. That lines up with the first of the three choices in the Gallup poll.

34%.

Abortion should be regulated like every other medical treatment.

Do you acknowledge the reality that there is no such thing as elective abortion in the 7th 8th and 9th months?

 

[RobDownSouth]

You’ve made my point. People use the labels “pro-choice” and “pro-life” without defining them.

I think I've made my position quite clear. I don't define other peoples' labels for them. That the Republican party's job.

Your definition draws the line at “around 23 weeks”, the generally accepted as the point where fetal viability begins. I’m not sure everyone who identifies as pro-choice accepts that definition. I’ve seen many posts here that indicate a pro choice view means there should not be any restrictions on a woman’s choice.

The overwhelming consensus amongst medical professionals is that fetal viability begins somewhere between 22 and 24 weeks. Determining the exact week of pregnancy is an inexact science. I chose the median of 23 weeks. But you know what? In the interest of brotherhood and fellowship, I'm willing to revise downward to 22 weeks.

And before you bring it up, i am aware of the single case in the history of abortion where a 21 week old fetus was brought to term. It cost millions of dollars in medical care, the child had significant brain damage and lungs that never quite developed. That's a "science fair project" to me, something done just to prove it could be done. It's not realistic in the real world.

Many people who call themselves “pro-life” are ok with legal abortion up to 15 weeks. Indeed I’ve seen other polls that show a plurality of Americans accept that. If the difference between pro choice and pro life was only a matter of 8 weeks, the issue would be far less divisive.

I am aware that something like 85% of all abortions are done prior to 15 weeks. Let me put you on the spot and ask you the rationale behind a ban post 15 weeks? What is so magic about that arbitrary number?

I'm going to go out on a limb and attempt to answer my own question: I'm theorizing that the majority of Americans don't realize that fetal viability occurs at 23, ummm...22 weeks. I do. You might. But Joe Sixpack? I doubt it. Biological education in America is awful. You have people with post graduate degrees here running their mouth that human beings are made primarily of carbon. Go figure.

The problem is there are loud minorities on both sides of the issue who either want unrestricted abortion or zero abortion have the loudest voices. Most Americans hold views somewhere in between.

Loudness? Yes. Is it relevant to this discussion? Only to the extent where one loud faction attempts to force their beliefs on others, whether by force of law or clinic occupation.

Your turn.