Do you own your body?

[TastySuckToy]

Overly emotional conservative male says what.

Poor little immature pearl clutching girl cries because she can't take what she dishes out. My 9 year old niece is tougher and a lot smarter than you.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Just a side note:
just yesterday this person basically claimed the issue was private and he did not to have a care in the matter and does not ask women about private health issues but also was pro-choice though it bothered him that most of the violence came from pro-choice advocates. The more you know.
Ok. Carry on folks.

What sort of "violence"?
From what I recall, almost all abortion clinic damage and abortion doctor assassinations were done by anti-abortion zealots "doin' the Lord's work".

 

[Bn2f]

What sort of "violence"?
From what I recall, almost all abortion clinic damage and abortion doctor assassinations were done by anti-abortion zealots "doin' the Lord's work".

TastySuckToy:
And despite me being in the 'pro-choice' group, I still find it the group that is most violent, irrational, hostile, hypocritical and distasteful over the entire issue.

 

[Bn2f]

It sucks when you have to taste the toy that’s pulled out from your ass.

 

[Lazaran]

Poor little immature pearl clutching girl cries because she can't take what she dishes out. My 9 year old niece is tougher and a lot smarter than you.

Your niece thinks you’re a creepy fuck that claims to not care about her personal reproductive health choices, but still ceaselessly "inserts" yourself into the conversation.

JFC

SAD!!!

 

[adrina]

Your niece thinks you’re a creepy fuck that claims to not care about her personal reproductive health choices, but still ceaselessly "inserts" yourself into the conversation.

JFC

SAD!!!

The ridiculous thing is that he's so heavily invested in believing that he's hurt me in some way. Tells you a lot about his maturity level. Again, he's just another emotionally immature histrionic conservative male. His behavior has been demonstrated multiple times by many of the current and past (alts and otherwise) conservative male posters. Same ol' same ol'.

 

[RandyRebecca]

You’ve made my point. People use the labels “pro-choice” and “pro-life” without defining them.

I use pro-choice and anti-choice.

 

[John Doe]

View attachment 2281102
source ~ Gallup 2023

I also noticed that the more educated someone was, the more likely they were to be pro-choice.

 

[John Doe]

So you went with the disingenuous sexist prick route.

Good to know.

Yup, just another overly emotional conservative male with no real experience with it and instead substitutes real discussion with irrational and glib responses. The women who have ended up sterile, traumatized or otherwise physically/emotionally injured because of these poorly written laws can take comfort in your dismissal of them I'm sure.

No, I'm sure he's genuinely a sexist prick.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

The 20 week area is another issue altogether. However most of the elective abortions that now occur at 20-24 weeks are due to barriers to abortion care put into place by republican legislatures led by mostly conservative men.

Again, it's a simple question.

Can you acknowledge that elective abortions in the 7th, 8th and 9th months have never been documented as occurring? Is this a hard question? I had no problem answering your question.

You pestered everyone for the better part of two pages about where they stood in the gallup poll. Why are you so afraid to answer a simple question?

If I knew the answer I’d happily tell you. Not sure why you’re asking me. Did I say there are lots of abortions in the 7th, 8th or 9th month? All I’ve seen is the Guttmacher citation which, if accurate, translates to thousands after week 20.

The point I’ve made is that people use terms pro choice and pro life without defining them. For you and a couple of others on this board who identify as pro choice, that means abortion with no restrictions. For others here who self identify as pro choice, it means choice until fetal viability. The Gallup poll indicates that 2/3 of respondents believe it should only be legal under certain conditions or not at all. A third of the country share your view.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Look, I’m n

I’m not arguing with you or trying to convince you of anything. I never claimed late term abortions are common. You asked me a question. I told you I haven’t seen data that answers it other than something I read a long time ago that was attributed to Guttmacher.

I dug it up for you. Here it is.

“A more recent Guttmacher study focused on abortion after 20 weeks of gestation and similarly concluded that women seeking late-term abortions were not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment. The study further concluded that late-term abortion seekers were younger and more likely to be unemployed than those seeking earlier abortions. It is estimated that about 1% of all abortions in the United States are performed after 20 weeks, or approximately 10 000 to 15 000 annually.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6457018/

How many abortions happen after 24 weeks, of viable pregnancies? It must be a very small number indeed. Viriginia and Massachusetts allow second trimester abortions beyond 24 weeks, but third trimester abortions (i.e. after 26 weeks) by choice are only officially legal in a few states, i.e. Vermont, New Jersey, Oregon, Colorado, New Mexico, Alaska, plus DC, and the number of them actually done on viable pregnancies must be very, very low indeed. Can you even show one source citing such an abortion of a viable pregnancy, as Adrina has asked?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2013/11/who-seeks-abortions-or-after-20-weeks

Here I dug up the Guttmacher article, strange you didn't.

METHODS: As part of a larger study, 272 women who received an abortion at or after 20 weeks’ gestation and 169 who received first-trimester abortions at 16 facilities across the country in 2008–2010 were interviewed one week after the procedure. Mixed effect logistic regression analyses were used to determine the characteristics associated with later abortion (i.e., at 20 weeks or later). Causes of delay in obtaining abortion were assessed in open- and closed-ended questions; profiles of women who received later abortions were identified through factor analysis.

Results: Women aged 20–24 were more likely than those aged 25–34 to have a later abortion (odds ratio, 2.7), and women who discovered their pregnancy before eight weeks’ gestation were less likely than others to do so (0.1). Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care. Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

CONCLUSION: Bans on abortion after 20 weeks will disproportionately affect young women and women with limited financial resources.

This doesn't say what you think it does Boomer....*chuckles*

Great. Adrina asked a question which had nothing to do with the poll I shared or the point I was making. Only a third of the country supports unrestricted abortions per Gallup polling. I’ll let you and her chase down data on late term abortions. As you note, lots happen at or after week 20.

 

[adrina]

If I knew the answer I’d happily tell you. Not sure why you’re asking me. Did I say there are lots of abortions in the 7th, 8th or 9th month? All I’ve seen is the Guttmacher citation which, if accurate, translates to thousands after week 20.

The point I’ve made is that people use terms pro choice and pro life without defining them. For you and a couple of others on this board who identify as pro choice, that means abortion with no restrictions. For others here who self identify as pro choice, it means choice until fetal viability. The Gallup poll indicates that 2/3 of respondents believe it should only be legal under certain conditions or not at all. A third of the country share your view.

Bullshit.

You've repeatedly yammered on about elective late term abortions. You support restrictions on them.

Yet you can't name a single instance of it ever happening. Not one. Not a single time.

Yet you claim you can't say.

Either name a single instance of elective third trimester abortion or forever shut the fuck up about them.

Or, simply answer the question:

Do you acknowledge that elective third trimester abortions are not a thing?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

How many abortions happen after 24 weeks, of viable pregnancies? It must be a very small number indeed. Viriginia and Massachusetts allow second trimester abortions beyond 24 weeks, but third trimester abortions (i.e. after 26 weeks) by choice are only officially legal in a few states, i.e. Vermont, New Jersey, Oregon, Colorado, Alaska, plus DC, and the number of them actually done on viable pregnancies must be very, very low indeed. Can you even show one source citing such an abortion of a viable pregnancy, as Adrina has asked?

I have no idea. Adrina asked me and I told her I have limited information and shared what little info I could find. It has nothing to do with my point which is Gallup polling indicates that only a third of Americans share her view. In fact even a couple of people here who identify as pro choice don’t share her view either. It’s a vague term that means different things to different people. Most of us believe it should only be legal under certain conditions or not at all.

 

[RandyRebecca]

I have no idea. Adrina asked me and I told her I have limited information and shared what little info I could find. It has nothing to do with my point which is Gallup polling indicates that only a third of Americans share her view. In fact even a couple of people here who identify as pro choice don’t share her view either. It’s a vague term that means different things to different people. Most of us believe it should only be legal under certain conditions or not at all.

But the anti-abortion lobby either wants abortion banned entirely (i.e. most of them), or at 6 weeks (before a lot of women even know that they're pregnant). What is the point of 12, 15, 18 weeks instead of 22-24 weeks? There's talk of a nationwide abortion ban from some of them. It's culture war BS.

The fact of the matter is that only a pro-choice position leaves the decision of whether a woman has an abortion or not up to the woman herself, according to her conscience. If she's anti-abortion morally, she can refuse to have an abortion. A pro-choice position doesn't force abortion on anyone. An anti-choice position, on the other hand, is basically forcing their morality on women who completely disagree with that morality.

The point I’ve made is that people use terms pro choice and pro life without defining them.

Pro-choice means allowing us the right to have the choice as to whether we have an abortion or not up to the time of viability. Anti-choice opposes that. What else could it mean? The fetus isn't going to survive outside the mother's womb until well into the third trimester.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Bullshit.

You've repeatedly yammered on about elective late term abortions. You support restrictions on them.

Yet you can't name a single instance of it ever happening. Not one. Not a single time.

Yet you claim you can't say.

Either name a single instance of elective third trimester abortion or forever shut the fuck up about them.

Or, simply answer the question:

Do you acknowledge that elective third trimester abortions are not a thing?

I’ll leave it to you to find a post where I’ve claimed there are lots of elective abortions in the 7th, 8th, and 9th month. If Guttenmacher is right, lots happen at or after week 20. I hope you’re right that they NEVER happen in the last trimester. If you are, then why the hysterical objections to codifying it into law? Your opinions on abortion are out of step with 2/3 of the country and that obviously has you howling mad. Sorry.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

The anti abortion lobby wants to ban it under any circumstances. The pro abortion lobby wants to legalize it with no restrictions. Most Americans are in the middle. If you had responded to the Gallup poll, which of the three choices would you select?

“Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances or illegal in all circumstances?”

 

[adrina]

I’ll leave it to you to find a post where I’ve claimed there are lots of elective abortions in the 7th, 8th, and 9th month. If Guttenmacher is right, lots happen at or after week 20. I hope you’re right that they NEVER happen in the last trimester. If you are, then why the hysterical objections to codifying it into law? Your opinions on abortion are out of step with 2/3 of the country and that obviously has you howling mad. Sorry.

As explained ad nauseum, the laws are so poorly written - because they are based on the erroneous assumption that women choose to have elective abortions in the third trimester - that women who need them can't get them. Then suffer horrible consequences - up to and including sterility and chronic health problems. Plus a dose of PTSD.

The objection isn't hysterical. Nice dig, asshole. The objection is because men's histrionics and distrust of women is causing women to suffer severe health, mental and emotional consequences.

You hope it doesn't happen? Find an instance of it.

Until you find documented instances of elective third trimester abortions it's not a matter of you or anyone hoping I'm right. It's a matter of you and others having to prove that I'm wrong.

It's not that hard. Why can't you just simply say "there are no documented cases of elective third trimester abortions."

 

[adrina]

The anti abortion lobby wants to ban it under any circumstances. The pro abortion lobby wants to legalize it with no restrictions. Most Americans are in the middle. If you had responded to the Gallup poll, which of the three choices would you select?

“Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances or illegal in all circumstances?”

Fuck off with your questions until you can admit that third trimester elective abortions have never been documented as happening.

 

[RandyRebecca]

It’s not like technology hasn’t drastically changed since 1972 or anything….

What does that mean, precisely?

The Republican Party has changed a lot since then. It has abandoned what is now the libertarian position on abortion (i.e. it's none of government's business, and entirely a matter for the woman and her doctors) in favor of the evangelical crazies' anti-choice madness.

The contrast in Gallup's 1972 and 2023 polls speak volumes. It's gone from 68% of Republicans and 59% of Democrats being pro-choice in 1972, to 21% of Republicans and 84% of Democrats being pro-choice in 2023. This is a combination of the Republicans appeasing the evangelicals constantly since the 1980s, and the Southern Democrats (i.e. Dixiecrats) of old nearly all leaving the Democratic Party in the decades since.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

As explained ad nauseum, the laws are so poorly written - because they are based on the erroneous assumption that women choose to have elective abortions in the third trimester - that women who need them can't get them. Then suffer horrible consequences - up to and including sterility and chronic health problems. Plus a dose of PTSD.

The objection isn't hysterical. Nice dig, asshole. The objection is because men's histrionics and distrust of women is causing women to suffer severe health, mental and emotional consequences.

You hope it doesn't happen? Find an instance of it.

Until you find documented instances of elective third trimester abortions it's not a matter of you or anyone hoping I'm right. It's a matter of you and others having to prove that I'm wrong.

It's not that hard. Why can't you just simply say "there are no documented cases of elective third trimester abortions."

I get it. You’re among the minority of Americans who support legal abortion with no restrictions.

 

[RandyRebecca]

The pro abortion lobby wants to legalize it with no restrictions.

What? Viability or 24 weeks, I think you mean.

 

[adrina]

I get it. You’re among the minority of Americans who support legal abortion with no restrictions.

So then you want to rant about a situation and have restrictions based around that situation - but that situation has never been documented to occur.

Irrational.

And it's absolutely ridiculous that you can't even admit that third trimester elective abortions have never been documented to have occurred. Ever.

Wow.

Yes, I want women who are in their 8 month of pregnancy to be able to get an abortion in the event that something goes terribly wrong so that their lives aren't threatened and they aren't subjected to a gauntlet to get the care they need. A gauntlet based on falsehoods and fear.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Fuck off with your questions until you can admit that third trimester elective abortions have never been documented as happening.

Lol. I have no reason to doubt you and have never claimed there are documented cases. The information I’ve seen only addresses at or after 20 weeks. You’re trying to start an argument to deflect from the point I’m making. Two thirds of the country disagree with your extreme position.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Lol. I have no reason to doubt you and have never claimed there are documented cases. The information I’ve seen only addresses at or after 20 weeks. You’re trying to start an argument to deflect from the point I’m making. Two thirds of the country disagree with your extreme position.

52% of Americans are pro-choice, according to the 2023 Gallup link.