Do we. . . "come out"?

[FurryFury]

Yeah. I know. That was my point.

Wrong.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah. I know. That was my point.

You was being too darn subtle for me!

 

[knot_sweet]

After reading the whole thread, I agree with most.

Whilst I would love some equality in the world, most people aren't quite ready to deal with BDSM in an open, non judgemental manner.

For very sensible reasons of my own, everybody in my life (including work colleagues) knows that I like this kind of thing. I don't go into details, but they are aware of my interests.

My mum and I have very frank discussions about BDSM. We became much closer after I opened up to her about this side of my life and I discovered a couple of things about her. It has helped both of us understand each other much better for a variety of reasons. And my mum feels better because she doesn't feel alone any more.

So my advice is talk to the people you know you can trust. You don't need to go into details, but those closest to you will notice certain behavioural and emotional changes and may be worried unless you tell them at least a little about what's going on.

 

[KoPilot]

I agree that there is little reason for some to tell anyone not a potential sex partner about their sex life EXCEPT if you feel it's a big essential part of you some want to come out. Those that are gay for instance, why is it such a big deal to come out? It's only about sex after all right?

Wrong. It's about living life out in the open instead of hiding in the closet. It's about asking to be accepted as you fully are. It is important to those it's important to.

We should all be able to live an open life without fear of being hated for who and what we are. Our society doesn't work that way but it's a worthwhile goal.

Uh... not sure I'd compare LGBT* struggles with BDSM struggles. In 100% of the cases of LGBT* people, it's... the basis of their entire life. With only a relatively small portion of the latter is it the same. I don't think a single hetero kinky wife was ever told she couldn't bring her husband to X social function under any circumstance or otherwise publicly acknowledge their relationship at all.

Let's compare BDSM problems to BDSM problems, yeah?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you, Kopilot.

 

[Netzach]

generally I'm not a fan of the comparison, it's a lot harder across the board to be GLBT for the stated reason.

however, in terms of private life, it all depends what your private life is like and who you hang with.

It's actually VERY dicey to be into BDSM if all of your peer group are second wave lesbian separatists or girls who have just discovered same, yanno?

I did my time in a sphere where what I was interested in was clearly NOT COOL. NOT OK but everyone else's sexuality was up for validation.

It's ok, small stuff, but worth considering. I can see certain families where being a big ol' dyke is great, but being a big ol' dyke who does whatever her GF wants is WEIRD.

 

[njlauren]

I agree that there is little reason for some to tell anyone not a potential sex partner about their sex life EXCEPT if you feel it's a big essential part of you some want to come out. Those that are gay for instance, why is it such a big deal to come out? It's only about sex after all right?

Wrong. It's about living life out in the open instead of hiding in the closet. It's about asking to be accepted as you fully are. It is important to those it's important to.

We should all be able to live an open life without fear of being hated for who and what we are. Our society doesn't work that way but it's a worthwhile goal.

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but even in a perfect world there will always be boundaries of what is appropriate and not, if only in respect for other people. Being gay is who someone is or rather what they are (who is another story, who is a sum total of who we are), and if it is fundamentally what they are, they shouldn't have to hide it.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean people need to hear is a gay male is a bottom or top, bear, chubby chaser, into oral/anal or both, the nitty gritty. When you meet a guy with his girlfriend, do you want them to talk about how they do oral sex? I doubt it.....

If BD/SM is something you do in the bedroom, why disclose it when it isn't relevant? It used to drive me nuts when I was in support groups and such, when we would be talking about stuff that had nothing to do with being trans, and people would preference the statement with "as a trans woman, I feel ...." whatever. Not talking about who to vote for, I am talking about chatter on what restaurant we liked *grrr*..it is context, too. On the other hand, if someone is into serious, 24/7 D/s and that relationship is critical to who they are, then it may be relevant, because it isn't just sex. If you are in a triad, it may be important to explain the relationship between the 3 people....you get the idea.

 

[KoPilot]

generally I'm not a fan of the comparison, it's a lot harder across the board to be GLBT for the stated reason.

however, in terms of private life, it all depends what your private life is like and who you hang with.

It's actually VERY dicey to be into BDSM if all of your peer group are second wave lesbian separatists or girls who have just discovered same, yanno?

Well, yeah. All I'm trying to say is that it's dicey, but it's dicey in different situations for different reasons. And those reasons deserve to be critiqued on their own merit.

 

[FurryFury]

No affront was intended to belittle GBLT issues. The comparison was used merely to try to create an understanding in a way of why someone might actually feel a need to come out of the BDSM closet.

Just as civil rights people don't want to be compared to GBLT struggles sometimes comparisons can be understood to help further understanding but it will also be considered wrong by some. I understand that though it wasn't my intention. I apologies to anyone I've offended. I do still hope my post opens up the ideas of any who will consider my comments as I meant them.

Uh... not sure I'd compare LGBT* struggles with BDSM struggles. In 100% of the cases of LGBT* people, it's... the basis of their entire life. With only a relatively small portion of the latter is it the same. I don't think a single hetero kinky wife was ever told she couldn't bring her husband to X social function under any circumstance or otherwise publicly acknowledge their relationship at all.

Let's compare BDSM problems to BDSM problems, yeah?

 

[KoPilot]

No affront was intended to belittle GBLT issues. The comparison was used merely to try to create an understanding in a way of why someone might actually feel a need to come out of the BDSM closet.

Just as civil rights people don't want to be compared to GBLT struggles sometimes comparisons can be understood to help further understanding but it will also be considered wrong by some. I understand that though it wasn't my intention. I apologies to anyone I've offended. I do still hope my post opens up the ideas of any who will consider my comments as I meant them.

Oh I'm not offended, but I think it does the discussion a disservice to have to compare one social issue to another. From what I understand, there's enough crappy stuff happening to kinky folk that we don't have to prop ourselves up with this kind of deferment, right? Dunno, that's my opinion.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but even in a perfect world there will always be boundaries of what is appropriate and not, if only in respect for other people. Being gay is who someone is or rather what they are (who is another story, who is a sum total of who we are), and if it is fundamentally what they are, they shouldn't have to hide it.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean people need to hear is a gay male is a bottom or top, bear, chubby chaser, into oral/anal or both, the nitty gritty. When you meet a guy with his girlfriend, do you want them to talk about how they do oral sex? I doubt it.....

If BD/SM is something you do in the bedroom, why disclose it when it isn't relevant? It used to drive me nuts when I was in support groups and such, when we would be talking about stuff that had nothing to do with being trans, and people would preference the statement with "as a trans woman, I feel ...." whatever. Not talking about who to vote for, I am talking about chatter on what restaurant we liked *grrr*..it is context, too. On the other hand, if someone is into serious, 24/7 D/s and that relationship is critical to who they are, then it may be relevant, because it isn't just sex. If you are in a triad, it may be important to explain the relationship between the 3 people....you get the idea.

"as a trans woman I like this restaurant..."

because I don't get dirty looks when I walk in. I am sooo fucking sick of the dirty looks.

And the food is good too.

Yeah there are identity reasons for things that other people don't think twice about.


Thing about comparing BDSM closets to GLBT closets is what we call "intersectionality." Two issues which have a few similarities and some differences-- and in fact, can affect the same person at the same time. And they could be a minority color too.

 

[KoPilot]

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but even in a perfect world there will always be boundaries of what is appropriate and not, if only in respect for other people. Being gay is who someone is or rather what they are (who is another story, who is a sum total of who we are), and if it is fundamentally what they are, they shouldn't have to hide it.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean people need to hear is a gay male is a bottom or top, bear, chubby chaser, into oral/anal or both, the nitty gritty. When you meet a guy with his girlfriend, do you want them to talk about how they do oral sex? I doubt it.....

If BD/SM is something you do in the bedroom, why disclose it when it isn't relevant? It used to drive me nuts when I was in support groups and such, when we would be talking about stuff that had nothing to do with being trans, and people would preference the statement with "as a trans woman, I feel ...." whatever. Not talking about who to vote for, I am talking about chatter on what restaurant we liked *grrr*..it is context, too. On the other hand, if someone is into serious, 24/7 D/s and that relationship is critical to who they are, then it may be relevant, because it isn't just sex. If you are in a triad, it may be important to explain the relationship between the 3 people....you get the idea.

Yeeeah as someone that isn't trans*, I don't think it's up to you to decide what is and isn't relevant to the identity of a trans* person, and when a trans* person's identity is and isn't relevant to anything else.

Which is why we, as kinky people, can actually give our opinions about the issues inherent in kink. Though like Stella pointed out, kinky issues sometimes aren't -just- kinky issues. And guess what? You're not going to be able to relate or speak to some things. That's just the way it is.

 

[DVS]

OK. Never mind.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wrong? Did you read her whole post? confused:

She and I have already discussed it, DVS. It's okay.

 

[Netzach]

Yeeeah as someone that isn't trans*, I don't think it's up to you to decide what is and isn't relevant to the identity of a trans* person, and when a trans* person's identity is and isn't relevant to anything else.

Which is why we, as kinky people, can actually give our opinions about the issues inherent in kink. Though like Stella pointed out, kinky issues sometimes aren't -just- kinky issues. And guess what? You're not going to be able to relate or speak to some things. That's just the way it is.

Forgive me if I'm speaking for lauren but I believe she is. (?wrong?)

And it's definitely a common sentiment around my house, also. People go through a three-bean-salad-support kind of phase with these things and for some people this important coming out process thing never ends. A lot of the rest of us just start going out and paying bills and forgetting you're different until reminded. Which, one is, though it's always surprising to me when people freak out way less than I usually anticipate.

It's cool, to each their own. I just relate to the "no longer that excited" sentiments.

 

[KoPilot]

Forgive me if I'm speaking for lauren but I believe she is. (?wrong?)

Ah, ok. Sorry about that. If that's the case, then uh... yeah I guess feel free to weigh in, but still, different aspects of peoples' lives are gonna be more relevant to whatever than others. I thought that was common sense-y?

 

[BiBunny]

I can say that, personally, being a filthy, disgusting pervert has never had an impact on my life, outside of my own bedroom. Being totally not-monogamous has, though. You can keep the shit you do in private to yourself, but it's a little harder hiding the fact that you've got not only one girlfriend--which is weird enough for many people--but two.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Forgive me if I'm speaking for lauren but I believe she is. (?wrong?)

And it's definitely a common sentiment around my house, also. People go through a three-bean-salad-support kind of phase with these things and for some people this important coming out process thing never ends. A lot of the rest of us just start going out and paying bills and forgetting you're different until reminded. Which, one is, though it's always surprising to me when people freak out way less than I usually anticipate.

It's cool, to each their own. I just relate to the "no longer that excited" sentiments.

Sometimes your posts are hard for me to decypher. This is one of those times...

 

[DVS]

I agree that there is little reason for some to tell anyone not a potential sex partner about their sex life EXCEPT if you feel it's a big essential part of you some want to come out. Those that are gay for instance, why is it such a big deal to come out? It's only about sex after all right?

Wrong. It's about living life out in the open instead of hiding in the closet. It's about asking to be accepted as you fully are. It is important to those it's important to.

We should all be able to live an open life without fear of being hated for who and what we are. Our society doesn't work that way but it's a worthwhile goal.

There are comparisons but they are far from equal. But in the way you compare them, I agree with you. While I would never say my closet sexual desires is the same as being gay, there are similarities. People can look down on what they see as perverted sexual habits just like they look down on someone who's gay. But, of course, someone who's gay has a much rougher time of it, if they are outed against their will.

How do you tell who will understand and who won't? You might think someone will understand, but until you actually tell them, you really don't know. It's one reason there are sites like this where people can be themselves.

Again, I don't say this is a totally equal comparison, but I understand the similarities.

 

[FurryFury]

Thanks DVS!

I'm glad someone understands my post the way I meant it!

There are comparisons but they are far from equal. But in the way you compare them, I agree with you. While I would never say my closet sexual desires is the same as being gay, there are similarities. People can look down on what they see as perverted sexual habits just like they look down on someone who's gay. But, of course, someone who's gay has a much rougher time of it, if they are outed against their will.

How do you tell who will understand and who won't? You might think someone will understand, but until you actually tell them, you really don't know. It's one reason there are sites like this where people can be themselves.

Again, I don't say this is a totally equal comparison, but I understand the similarities.

 

[Netzach]

Sometimes your posts are hard for me to decypher. This is one of those times...

OK, some people live all their out queer life in full on activist aching for marxist-theory reasons to get upset about three dimensional life, which work better on two dimensional paper. This is common in university towns with very very low rates of hate crime, for example. I can live in this world easily if I want to.

A lot of other people are happy to meet people where they're at in terms of language and concept, conform to a consumer norm, ache for the essentially questionable goal of marriage (is this really an institution we want to perpetuate on ourselves, well in practicality, yes) and crave "normal" - are likely to just avoid situations where people don't understand, and put their heads down. A lot. You'll find this in hostile territory more often. I try to be sensitive to people who seem to "not be fighting the fight" or not "look like a lesbian" or whatever BS the theorists have decided.

I'm UNLIKELY to get on yelp and say "wow this place gave my out trans partner a weird look, EVIL AVOID" and much more likely to get on yelp and say "this place is comfortable if you're queer" I expect tension in reality, I'm pleasantly relieved when it's not there, I don't dwell on "microaggressions" because I think it's a fantasists world to be able to afford that much stress.

I like to kind of exist between these poles, but I get uncomfortable bumping into either one too much, personally. So I think I get what lauren was saying, about just being tired out and over the maximum sensitivity at all times. The world is not going to pad its corners for us, even if it should for everyone.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ah yeah, I gotcha.

I know for myself that if I'm spending a lot of time activism-ing it's because there's something more personal I'm trying to avoid.

Although there are times when I get activating because I have no choices.

An elderly Domme of my acquaintance was talking about her trans F sub. She said she's telling the girl that she has to make a choice between being oput and loud in public and being quiet and happy at home-- actually what she said was "Being a good wifey" -- so I have some problems with that-- and that subgirl was no longer allowed to wear shorts, only skirts.

I'm kinda.. huh.
But that's maybe generational stuff going on there.

 

[Netzach]

Ah yeah, I gotcha.

I know for myself that if I'm spending a lot of time activism-ing it's because there's something more personal I'm trying to avoid.

Although there are times when I get activating because I have no choices.

An elderly Domme of my acquaintance was talking about her trans F sub. She said she's telling the girl that she has to make a choice between being oput and loud in public and being quiet and happy at home-- actually what she said was "Being a good wifey" -- so I have some problems with that-- and that subgirl was no longer allowed to wear shorts, only skirts.

I'm kinda.. huh.
But that's maybe generational stuff going on there.

Oy vey. I'm guessing yes, and hopefully that's an expression of kink?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oy vey. I'm guessing yes, and hopefully that's an expression of kink?

I actually don't know if it's meant to be kink or real life. I'mma ask the woman myself... she's allowed to hang out with me

 

[xssve]

"Microaggressions", I like that word.

And that "intersectionality" confuses people who live in those college towns, in a chip-on-the-shoulder way sometimes - I live in a very much "family values" sort of community, where hetero anal is considered "gay", so in spite of being a confirmed hetero, I'm also a flaming queer, go figure.

Something to do with an apparently Christian notion that only men have assholes, or enjoy having them poked occasionally, perhaps dating back to the concept of Mary, immaculate.

I blame a lot of it on this being an election year, it's always there, but I've noticed the incidence of the stinkeye, and aggression in general tends to peak when the right gets caught with it's hand down the pants of a small boy, on the principle the best defense being a good offense presumably, since that shit would never happen if it weren't for liberals you know.

And has nothing to do with the fact that full grown women are supposed to be treated like innocent children, lest their weak little minds snap and they descend into license and madness.

If only.

But the upshot is, due to this particular conflict between a BDSM and a more Westboro Baptist paradigm of human sexuality, I'm not just sympathetic, (I really don't care what you do in privacy, unless I'm directly involved in some way), I'm also empathetic.

"Suuuure you are". Lol.

I'm inclined to be honest about it, if asked, but I agree with Netzach, there will be drama - I suspect it's just one of the few forms of entertainment Vanillas are allowed.

I get activated when the discourse threatens to devolve into violence, there is a history there.