Discoveries & Rediscoveries

[t_h_seacrest]

As one whose writing world went somewhat dormant the last couple years (went so far as to delete the account I wrote under when submitting writings to Literotica) and am missing the good times it offered the imagination, so working on a couple stories that might potentially be submitted here...

So something happened a little bit ago that helped me see a better broader perspective; made me go, "oh wait a minute, yeah it would've been helpful to have this in mind back then and let myself become okay with it".

So I do have an elsewhere blog that is fun, easy, but mostly pictorial. Sometimes I drop a WIP excerpt which gets a few touches of attention now and then, but the general atmosphere of images might be up near 90% of the content.

So anyway I was checking out a blog that seemed to have a clear focus on a theme I too find interesting (femdom for what that's worth). So I clicked and... well some of it was okay, but much of it I had to say, "hey you do you, by all means, always that. But I'm just not interested in this sector of that territory." Calmly clicked away, no hard feelings.

Then I'm thinking: hey it's okay to not find something erotically arousing. And if that's gotta be okay, it's gotta equally be okay if any given person out there reads what I write and does not find it erotically arousing. And I got a feeling that a lot of readers looking for something erotic to read... okay so maybe they don't find it erotic enough or soon enough reading stuff I've written. So then I think: what if I didn't claim it to be necessarily erotic? Quit trying so hard to make it erotic. Just write what feels most interesting. What if I quit worrying if it is excessive with purple prose? Or what they call overwritten? Yeah it's probably gonna be. At least somewhat. Of course it doesn't hurt to get into some pruning and weeding here and there. But to get all knotted up because it might not be squeaky clean and lean? Well that's no good either. Better, much better, ways to spend a day.

It's like the erotic feels obligatory or something. Get antsy. Hesitant. Maybe go non-erotic for a while. For the practice.

By the way, speaking of femdom themes, how much of a niche would these be?

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've seen this put as: "I'm not for everyone." I enjoyed writing here a lot more after I absorbed that principle.

Femdom: there are definitely readers for it, just be aware that some people may be obnoxious about it. Good news is they are not people who deserve your consideration.

 

[NotWise]

You can't make yourself responsible for other people's arousal. If for no other reason, then because the line between arousing and not arousing can be extremely fine, as can the line between not arousing and offensive.

In the absence of themes that would put it somewhere else, femdom would go to the Fetish category, which is a catch-all. I haven't written femdom myself, but I understand from those who have that it can get a rough reception from some readers. You have to ignore that and just write for yourself.

 

[t_h_seacrest]

I've seen this put as: "I'm not for everyone." I enjoyed writing here a lot more after I absorbed that principle.

Femdom: there are definitely readers for it, just be aware that some people may be obnoxious about it. Good news is they are not people who deserve your consideration.

I think you encapsulate it pretty much on the nose. Maybe that absorption works on the slow side for some of us

 

[t_h_seacrest]

You can't make yourself responsible for other people's arousal. If for no other reason, then because the line between arousing and not arousing can be extremely fine, as can the line between not arousing and offensive.

In the absence of themes that would put it somewhere else, femdom would to the the Fetish category, which is a catch-all. I haven't written femdom myself, but I understand from those who have that it can get a rough reception from some readers. You have to ignore that and just write for yourself.

I was wondering about that.
Thanks for the clarity.
You are helping to make this a great day for incoming info.

 

[TheRedChamber]

In the absence of themes that would put it somewhere else, femdom would go to the Fetish category, which is a catch-all. I haven't written femdom myself, but I understand from those who have that it can get a rough reception from some readers. You have to ignore that and just write for yourself.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why wouldn't femdom be in the bdsm category?

Femdom: there are definitely readers for it, just be aware that some people may be obnoxious about it. Good news is they are not people who deserve your consideration.

I'm surprised about this. I would have thought that Femdom would have been the default and Maledom would be less common. I did notice that after doing two Maledom stories that did well earlier in the year, my recent Femdom story was less well received (no one was obnoxious, it just got very little engagement)

 

[lovecraft68]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why wouldn't femdom be in the bdsm category?

It should very much be in there...duh...dominatrix? It used to be.
But...BDSM has seriously devolved over the years. Large percentage of the stories there now are non consent because either the author knows it is and is dodging the stigma of the NC category, or slipping under the radar figuring BDSM doesn't get scrutinized as much. Other-and sadder reason-is the growing movement of assholes who are claiming consent need not apply in BDSM.

Aside from that, just about everything is a variation of strong woman seeks submissive side, strong woman is broken by the almighty dom, meek woman wants to get used abused, enslaved, etc...

In other words "Bitch gets hers' is the prevailing narrative and femdom now gets the LW incel treatment, so the writers of femdom, just like the cuck writers are learning to, now post in fetish where actual men secure enough in said manhood can enjoy stories of dominant or simply free women.

I last wrote there in 2014 and even that story was in answer to a challenge because I already saw where the category was heading back then. I wouldn't post anything there now even if someone offered to pay me.

Not to say there aren't good stories/writers there, but finding them is like walking through a minefield

 

[t_h_seacrest]

Wow I'm getting a long overdue education here.
And whereabouts in this would be the novellas/novels readership?
(I suppose I could do some searching in the How-To/Essay sections).

 

[lovecraft68]

Wow I'm getting a long overdue education here.
And whereabouts in this would be the novellas/novels readership?
(I suppose I could do some searching in the How-To/Essay sections).

The Novels readership is pretty small, but tend to be rather mellow.
Another option if you want to dodge some possible heat is erotic couplings is a catch all category so the readers are used to seeing all manner of content. Not a large group, but better than N&N

 

[NotWise]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why wouldn't femdom be in the bdsm category?


I'm surprised about this. I would have thought that Femdom would have been the default and Maledom would be less common. I did notice that after doing two Maledom stories that did well earlier in the year, my recent Femdom story was less well received (no one was obnoxious, it just got very little engagement)

I imagine it could be, but the femdom authors I've talked to put their stories into fetish.

I haven't written anything for BDSM, and I wouldn't unless I wanted to go all the way to the "lifestyle," with all the formalisms and protections. Otherwise, simple bondage could go most anywhere.

 

[SimonDoom]

It should very much be in there...duh...dominatrix? It used to be.
But...BDSM has seriously devolved over the years. Large percentage of the stories there now are non consent because either the author knows it is and is dodging the stigma of the NC category, or slipping under the radar figuring BDSM doesn't get scrutinized as much. Other-and sadder reason-is the growing movement of assholes who are claiming consent need not apply in BDSM.

Aside from that, just about everything is a variation of strong woman seeks submissive side, strong woman is broken by the almighty dom, meek woman wants to get used abused, enslaved, etc...

In other words "Bitch gets hers' is the prevailing narrative and femdom now gets the LW incel treatment, so the writers of femdom, just like the cuck writers are learning to, now post in fetish where actual men secure enough in said manhood can enjoy stories of dominant or simply free women.

I last wrote there in 2014 and even that story was in answer to a challenge because I already saw where the category was heading back then. I wouldn't post anything there now even if someone offered to pay me.

Not to say there aren't good stories/writers there, but finding them is like walking through a minefield

I wrote a story in BDSM in 2016, and it's still my highest-rated story, with over 100,000 views. It's probably one of my five or so most satisfying story experiences at Literotica. It's BDSM-light, with a light male-Dom/female-sub vibe. So my take is that to "succeed" in this category one doesn't have to conform strictly to any particular set of standards.

The one caution I would sound against any generalizations about categories is that the Literotica readership is huge, and there's a substantial readership for many things. You should, IMO, focus more energy on connecting with the readers who like your stuff than on avoiding the ones who don't. That may mean being willing to put up with some bad votes here and there and some unfavorable comments. You do not get better and realize your potential by avoiding risk. If you have a femdom BDSM story, then post it in BDSM, and ignore those who don't like those kinds of stories. That's where you are most likely to find a pool of readers who like what you do.

The problem with Fetish as a category is it doesn't mean anything, and it comprises groups of readers whose tastes are completely divergent. Think about it from the point of view of a reader: Where's a reader going to go to read a story about a dominant female tying up a submissive male? Probably BDSM.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Aside from that, just about everything is a variation of strong woman seeks submissive side, strong woman is broken by the almighty dom, meek woman wants to get used abused, enslaved, etc...

I wrote a story in BDSM in 2016, and it's still my highest-rated story, with over 100,000 views. It's probably one of my five or so most satisfying story experiences at Literotica. It's BDSM-light, with a light male-Dom/female-sub vibe. So my take is that to "succeed" in this category one doesn't have to conform strictly to any particular set of standards.

The one caution I would sound against any generalizations about categories is that the Literotica readership is huge, and there's a substantial readership for many things. You should, IMO, focus more energy on connecting with the readers who like your stuff than on avoiding the ones who don't. That may mean being willing to put up with some bad votes here and there and some unfavorable comments. You do not get better and realize your potential by avoiding risk. If you have a femdom BDSM story, then post it in BDSM, and ignore those who don't like those kinds of stories. That's where you are most likely to find a pool of readers who like what you do.

The problem with Fetish as a category is it doesn't mean anything, and it comprises groups of readers whose tastes are completely divergent. Think about it from the point of view of a reader: Where's a reader going to go to read a story about a dominant female tying up a submissive male? Probably BDSM.

Thinking about it, while I do find good stories in BDSM, I tend to avoid clicking on or leaving stories that look like they're going down the 'total instant submission' or otherwise be unpleasant.

I read Simon's story and it's similar in basic tone to what I've written in this category. Light with no pain and everyone having a good time despite some nerves. I posted my first story in BDSM without thinking about and it did well and so did my second. Both were, essentially, woman surprises nice man by putting herself in bondage - nice man remains nice, both with the sex written from the woman's perspective. My most recent one was of a woman getting rid of some work frustrations by engaging in domination with a stranger who she had reason to believe would enjoy it, again from her perspective. I was a bit surprised by the reaction to it, the score 4.2 was lower than I'd hoped and the number of views on it was in line with the other stories, but very few people were voting or commenting (although I did eventually get a couple of very nice comments), so it was hard to see what was going on. I'd be interested to know stories with male-doms score higher, or if people prefer sub-perspective stories or if the lack of penatrative sex is an issue or whatever. Not because I'd be particularly bothered about catering to them, it'd just be nice to have a general feeling.

 

[t_h_seacrest]

Thinking about it, while I do find good stories in BDSM, I tend to avoid clicking on or leaving stories that look like they're going down the 'total instant submission' or otherwise be unpleasant.

I read Simon's story and it's similar in basic tone to what I've written in this category. Light with no pain and everyone having a good time despite some nerves. I posted my first story in BDSM without thinking about and it did well and so did my second. Both were, essentially, woman surprises nice man by putting herself in bondage - nice man remains nice, both with the sex written from the woman's perspective. My most recent one was of a woman getting rid of some work frustrations by engaging in domination with a stranger who she had reason to believe would enjoy it, again from her perspective. I was a bit surprised by the reaction to it, the score 4.2 was lower than I'd hoped and the number of views on it was in line with the other stories, but very few people were voting or commenting (although I did eventually get a couple of very nice comments), so it was hard to see what was going on. I'd be interested to know stories with male-doms score higher, or if people prefer sub-perspective stories or if the lack of penatrative sex is an issue or whatever. Not because I'd be particularly bothered about catering to them, it'd just be nice to have a general feeling.

Yes yes! This! Thank you!
Did a reader simply not like the way the thing went?
Was the prose otherwise executed well-enough? Or was it not?
Are they getting runny yolk when they prefer it harder?
Maybe it's my breath. Overdid the aftershave.
Maybe the words are okay-enough but don't get to the good parts quick enough?
Was a reader in a bad mood? Maybe desperate for just one juicy stroker to help propel them to a thick head-spinning climax, but this one didn't do it?
Does it still contain too much overwritten purple prose?
Yet what if there is someone out there with a fetish for overwritten purple prose?
Hm maybe this itself is a story-in-waiting.

 

[lovecraft68]

I wrote a story in BDSM in 2016, and it's still my highest-rated story, with over 100,000 views. It's probably one of my five or so most satisfying story experiences at Literotica. It's BDSM-light, with a light male-Dom/female-sub vibe. So my take is that to "succeed" in this category one doesn't have to conform strictly to any particular set of standards.

The one caution I would sound against any generalizations about categories is that the Literotica readership is huge, and there's a substantial readership for many things. You should, IMO, focus more energy on connecting with the readers who like your stuff than on avoiding the ones who don't. That may mean being willing to put up with some bad votes here and there and some unfavorable comments. You do not get better and realize your potential by avoiding risk. If you have a femdom BDSM story, then post it in BDSM, and ignore those who don't like those kinds of stories. That's where you are most likely to find a pool of readers who like what you do.

The problem with Fetish as a category is it doesn't mean anything, and it comprises groups of readers whose tastes are completely divergent. Think about it from the point of view of a reader: Where's a reader going to go to read a story about a dominant female tying up a submissive male? Probably BDSM.

You made my point because light or not, it was guy on top
As for the vast/varied readership, you're correct in terms of the over all site, but each category has its factions and they shift over time. IMO BDSM has been on a downward spiral for some time, but that could be because I spent a long time in that lifestyle and take it seriously so seeing it turn not just one sided, but way to much rape masked as BDSM, Its put me off, and I know from a couple posts in the BDSM forum, I'm not alone.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think you encapsulate it pretty much on the nose. Maybe that absorption works on the slow side for some of us

It's also one of those things that we sometimes need to relearn every so often.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why wouldn't femdom be in the bdsm category?


I'm surprised about this. I would have thought that Femdom would have been the default and Maledom would be less common. I did notice that after doing two Maledom stories that did well earlier in the year, my recent Femdom story was less well received (no one was obnoxious, it just got very little engagement)

I should really have said msub, since that seems to be the key element - yes, it is absolutely on topic for BDSM, but a certain contingent of toxic masculinity types seem to have issues with it. Fdom/fsub isn't likely to be a problem.

 

[SimonDoom]

You made my point because light or not, it was guy on top
As for the vast/varied readership, you're correct in terms of the over all site, but each category has its factions and they shift over time. IMO BDSM has been on a downward spiral for some time, but that could be because I spent a long time in that lifestyle and take it seriously so seeing it turn not just one sided, but way to much rape masked as BDSM, Its put me off, and I know from a couple posts in the BDSM forum, I'm not alone.

It's too bad because BDSM is where femdom obviously "should" be. I'm more into male-dom but I've read some great femdom stories.

I haven't been here long enough to know for sure, but it seems like the readership at Literotica is less tolerant than it used to be, which is interesting and somewhat counterintuitive.

 

[lovecraft68]

it seems like the readership at Literotica is less tolerant than it used to be

It's a microcosm of society. The readers are real people, what are people like these days? They're pissed off, fed up, divided, fear mongered and hate mongered 24/7 by media that is no longer news but agenda. People are angry in ways they never have been before and thy don't limit it to certain aspects of their life, they take their angst out every place where it can be done behind a keyboard.

As society goes so does social media and pretty much everything else, and the only place we're collectively going is downhill

 

[t_h_seacrest]

It's also one of those things that we sometimes need to relearn every so often.

Sometimes it could be something simple as choosing the not-best category for a first submission, not knowing how passionate (or picky) some category readerships tend to generally be. Maybe that first unhappy commentor who greeted my first ever submission (now suddenly so long ago) was like, "wtf is this story doing here?!"

 

[gunhilltrain]

Sometimes it could be something simple as choosing the not-best category for a first submission, not knowing how passionate (or picky) some category readerships tend to generally be. Maybe that first unhappy commentor who greeted my first ever submission (now suddenly so long ago) was like, "wtf is this story doing here?!"

t_h_seacrest, I came over here to see how you're doing (you've posted to three boards already). You seem to be in a hyper phase, and you've been spending an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out how readers respond to BDSM stories or how other authors write them. I could tell you how I usually write them, but I doubt that would be very useful for you.

Don't you have one story that is closest to being done? Or maybe it is done, and you can't deal with that? Do you actually like it yourself? (Forget that you might change your mind at some later date; we all do that.) Maybe recruit a beta reader if you wish. (I've never used one myself.) Or just read it again yourself. You should - I hope - have some intuition that will tell you, "This is as good as I can make it, now," and submit it.

 

[t_h_seacrest]

Don't you have one story that is closest to being done? Or maybe it is done, and you can't deal with that? Do you actually like it yourself? (Forget that you might change your mind at some later date; we all do that.) Maybe recruit a beta reader if you wish. (I've never used one myself.) Or just read it again yourself. You should - I hope - have some intuition that will tell you, "This is as good as I can make it, now," and submit it.

Ah, funny you should say this, because this morning I became curious about what might be on an old thumb drive. Maybe find an oldie to restore if just to kickstart things. Wanted to see if I could find the first one, but no luck there. Found the second one... a bit iffy. But then another, maybe third or something... it has a short opener that might work as a stand-alone. I actually kinda like it and it is definitely being considered.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Ah, funny you should say this, because this morning I became curious about what might be on an old thumb drive. Maybe find an oldie to restore if just to kickstart things. Wanted to see if I could find the first one, but no luck there. Found the second one... a bit iffy. But then another, maybe third or something... it has a short opener that might work as a stand-alone. I actually kinda like it and it is definitely being considered.

I'm not try to get too much into your business, but you've brought this up in several places. You seem to be having trouble focusing your attention. The original thing you said, I believe, is that you had a series in which the first chapter was close to being done. And now you're mentioning old material on a thumb drive.

My preference is not to have too much unfinished material - like maybe three stories at most - lying around. I try to get them submitted in the order of completion before I get too deeply into other things. And, yeah, I've had a few that I decided not to finish and put them aside - maybe forever. So the thumb drive? You can look those over (like I have ideas that I will get to over time; I don't rush myself). But maybe what you need right now is already there, staring you in the face, so to speak.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's a microcosm of society. The readers are real people, what are people like these days? They're pissed off, fed up, divided, fear mongered and hate mongered 24/7 by media that is no longer news but agenda. People are angry in ways they never have been before and thy don't limit it to certain aspects of their life, they take their angst out every place where it can be done behind a keyboard.

As society goes so does social media and pretty much everything else, and the only place we're collectively going is downhill

I see it somewhat differently. I think in general things are getting better, but our expectations are outpacing the pace of improvement, a phenomenon that is fueled in part by the navel-gazing tendency of social media, which creates undue disappointment and pessimism. I tend to think people need a chill pill.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I see it somewhat differently. I think in general things are getting better, but our expectations are outpacing the pace of improvement, a phenomenon that is fueled in part by the navel-gazing tendency of social media, which creates undue disappointment and pessimism. I tend to think people need a chill pill.

Societies are always getting built up and falling apart at the same time. (Although sometimes one trend or the other one predominates.) A lot depends on one's own position within the social structure. Also, how do you define "society?" Does that mean the United States, North America, or all of Western Civilization (and where does the latter start and end, geographically?) So it's very hard to make generalizations.

Also, a lot depends on "predictions," a view of what is going to be the results of whatever present trends are going on. (I thought Black Swans was an interesting book but it really needed a editing job; it was about one-third too long.)

I could go on about my opinions of social media, but I'll let that pass. I should start my own blog. And what does this have to do with the original intent of this thread? Almost nothing that I can see.

 

[t_h_seacrest]

I'd like to come back to the femdom/writing idea if I may.

Here's how I'm understanding it (by all means, open to correction/modification where it may apply):
Let's say we have someone who greatly enjoys writing, and finds excitement in directing some of this writing interest towards the more erotically charged territories of fiction. There is also fascination with femdom themes (or even sexually aggressive females; maybe legitimate reasons her object of conquest expresses reluctance).

And let's say by some combo of hard work and miracle a story comes out just damn near perfect. Everything about it: prose style, compelling story, believable characters, grammar is solid, strong imagery... everything.

I am understanding that if presented on LIterotica it would indeed find appreciative readership. However, the writer should still prepare for rough waters, just because of the subject matter, or happening to choose the not-best category; not because of the prose or the general way it's written (although in my case it probably is the prose, but hey I'm in a dreamy mood right now).

So instead of the writer sliding into a funk of self-doubt, rereading the poorly-received story, coming to the Hangout with endless questions, wondering, "okay I'm no Nabokov, never will be, but is my writing really that bad?"

the happier (and mentally healthier) way to see it is to understand that what feels like a lackluster reception on Literotica might be for little other reason than a population of readers who are passionate about subject matter they do not want to read or even see published.

Herman Hesse comes back from the dead because he must write one more work. Creates the most beautiful piece of literature in all of human history. Comes to Lit, drops it in Loving Wives. ???

Hm, I smell story.

 

[MillieDynamite]

T_h_secrest, you might want to think about some letters, AADD, I think you may suffer from it.