Discipline

[Shadowsdream]

Hot4Heels has brought up a subject that has caught My attention.

I often wonder why it is so difficult for some Dom/mes and submissives to acquire self discipline or to utilize it.

As Hot4Heels has so aptly pointed out if one can not control themselves they have little to give and little to receive.

Without self discipline one party in the relationship will eventually become a burden to the other party.

Submissives how do you find a bases for trust in a Dominant that cannot control their own out bursts or remain cool under day to day pressures?

Dominants how do you find a bases for trust in a submissive that has no self discipline?

Both...what do you consider to be self discipline?

 

[Hot4Heels]

I often wonder why it is so difficult for some Dom/mes and submissives to acquire self discipline or to utilize it.

I am so glad you picked up and ran with this Mam. Self disciple is a real bitch to aquire. It is sooo much easier if you FOLLOW a DOMINANTS commands. This is yieldiding. This is not disciplne. Now beforw I get flamed from here to hell. There is nothing wrong with that and it does take disciplne unless you are Topping from the bottom. Do you think you can meerly cast away the reigns and be done? That only happens when you hit that sweet spot of subspace that disciplin in you and your Dominate will achive.

To flip the coin if you are a Dom/me and just doing what YOU and strictly YOU want with no regard for yor sub you are possibly on the borderline with abuse. Not necessarily physical but mental. If s/he revels in everything that you do they are nothing more than a pshycophant and what are you?

I am not sure if self disciplne can be taught. I know I watched many wash out of the service due to a lack of it. And if you want to know this would be a monastic order like the story of O relates to. Shadowsdream has noticed this. And I dont think anyone here could dispute her dominance. If ya want to I will and will back it up as a fucked up switch that knows both sides of the coin.

edited for typos but I am sure I left more

 

[Hot4Heels]

And in answers to some of the othe questions I cannot submit to a Dom/me? that cannot control themselves. I am sorry but if I see a lack in discipline how can they ever excersise disciplene over me?

As a dominant if a sub has no dicipline they are not into BDSM and merely into kinky sex. That is not a bad thing but does require a shift in the mental gears.

Finaly I find SELF discipline to be the thought process to modify my behavior to REFLECT the situation.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Submissives how do you find a bases for trust in a Dominant that cannot control their own out bursts or remain cool under day to day pressures?

Dominants how do you find a bases for trust in a submissive that has no self discipline?

Both...what do you consider to be self discipline?

To both questions, I don't feel that you can. Or if you do, that trust will be very weak because you never know when the other person will let themselves go and do something to break your trust. I feel that if you want something enough, you will have the self-discipline to achieve that. Whether that means not cheating on your spouse in order to keep the relationship going, or going to work everyday to support your childern, etc., etc.

Getting to your question about what is self-discipline, I think it is having the self control to a) achieve a predetermined goal and b) not succomb (sp?) to something you know is harmful to that goal.

There are many things that attack our self-discipline, everyday life, friends, family, lovers, school, work, etc. Sometimes you have to give in. Nobody can be perfect 100% of the time. It's just not possible. And no matter how badly you wish to achieve a goal, you will be tested and sometimes you will fail.

Self-discipline is one of those mysterious qualities that you can have at one point in time and completely fail at other times.

I also think there are severities of self-discipline. For example, you can have total trust in your partner even though you know they sometimes do not have the self-discipline not to smoke. They say they have quit smoking. And for the most part they have. But every once in awhile, maybe after they've had a few shots of liquor, or had a particularly hard, rough day at work, you know they sneak a quick smoke before coming home. Does that mean you can't trust them anymore. Of course not. On the other hand, if you walk in from work one day and find him/her screwing their brains out with a stranger in your bed, is the trust gone? Absolutely (assuming you aren't a swinging couple that allows random fucking).

This is a great topic Shadowsdream. A very difficult one too. In a way, we are always striving for self-discipline.

Anyhoo... I'm not sure I answered your questions, but I was happy to show my thoughts.

PBW

 

[Shadowsdream]

I thank you both for the contribution and the insight in this thread that has no easy answers.

But easy answers are not the kind that will ever pose questions worth asking.

I look forward to a glimpse inside the thoughts of many.

 

[cymbidia]

Submissives how do you find a bases for trust in a Dominant that cannot control their own out bursts or remain cool under day to day pressures?

Everyone is human before they are dom/me or sub. To me, that means that everyone will have an occasional off day, a day where everything has gone wrong and there's no fixing it. On such a day, one can elect to work the anger/frustration/etc out in some harmless manner, one can take it out on themselves, or one can hurt the people around them.

Those of us who give our personal power to another to use for the betterment of us both, we who are submissive to our dominant partner, can be badly hurt by one who cannot or will not control their moods, discipline themselves. To survive intact, we all learn to protect ourselves from such undependable people before they have a chance to hurt us.

How do we determine if they're undependable, undisciplined? Unfortunately, we learn by getting close enough to see it firsthand. There's no other good way to find out if your dominant is disciplined enough to *not* hurt you when s/he can, just because s/he can, unless you get close enough to make that determination.

I think the fear of becoming an anger release tool (rather then a pleasure percussion toy) is what holds so many of us back for so long. We are afraid of you. We've been hurt before and we know that when we bow, when we open ourselves and bare our throats to you, our dominants, you will be able to really hurt us - if we've chosen badly, if you're undisciplined, if you cannot handle yourself and, so, cannot handle us, either.

Yes, we want you to be disciplined. We want you to know how to deal with disappointment and anger, from us and from outside us, in a way that won't make us pay for your dark mood. We want to be safe with you. We crave your control of us but more then that, we crave the peace and safety we can find in the discipline you offer us from the deep wellspring of your own reserves of discipline.

We cannot be to you what you need, the disciplined submissive you crave, unless you show us the way first - by example. You lead, we follow. Such is our way.

Both...what do you consider to be self-discipline?

Self-discipline is a set of ever-changing, always present rules, both formalized and very informal, by which i live my life. My days and deeds are structured and given form by a somewhat fluctuating set of disciplines, self-administered and given to me by my dominant (and so, internalized and made into mine) that provide form and focus for my hours.

Whether i can masturbate before i go to sleep at night is included in my personal set of self-disciplines, as is whether i should take a walk today and if it's a good thing to brush my teeth before i leave my house. The day-to-day rules, small and large, that i allow to color my world and give it shape is my "self-discipline".

Do you mean sexual self-discipline?
Tex says that i may not play sexually with anyone unless he's there and has given his express permission. And so, i don't. It doesn't require much from me to obey that rule, but i obey it anyway. I've disciplined myself to obey that rule.

I could disobey. I could choose to go fuck my brains out with Master XYZ - but i would not, and my Master knows it. He trusts me, he knows i'm disciplined enough to not disobey. I know, too, that i'd never allow my discipline to slip in this matter.

Self-discipline is also continuing to take three salt water soaks a day during this part of the healing (all those body piercings) because that's what the piercer said to do and that's what Tex repeated he wanted me to do. It's kinda boring. I'd rather be doing other stuff. But it's necessary for now and so i continue it. I've disciplined myself to simply do what is necessary around this issue. When it's no longer required, i'll stop. For now, it's part of my daily regimen of self-discipline.

Is this the kind of thing you meant, Lady?

Now beforw I get flamed from here to hell.

In this place, we try seriously to allow everyone the peace and space to forward their own opinion, Hot4Heels. If you don't attack anyone then you can be fairly sure no one will attack you. Your ideas are fair game for disagreements but *you* shouldn't ever feel personally attacked. There's simply no reason for that in this place and it's not what we do very often at all.

This forum is dedicated to the thoughtful discussion of issues that relate to daily-life BDSM, skin-to-skin or heading that way. Occasionally tempers flare for no good reason but it's usually it's pretty calm here. Speak your mind freely, please.

 

[Shadowsdream]

(Yes, we want you to be disciplined. We want you to know how to deal with disappointment and anger, from us and from outside us, in a way that won't make us pay for your dark mood. We want to be safe with you. We crave your control of us but more then that, we crave the peace and safety we can find in the discipline you offer us from the deep wellspring of your own reserves of discipline. )

A Dominant must be able to CONTROL Her/His dark moods..this is self discipline...to put the moods into perspective..step back long enough to see the long term effects of lashing out either physically or emotionally without common sense or empathy. In My opinion.

BUT


It also takes a great deal of discipline to know when the stepping back will never be enough and facing the fact that sometimes there is no future. It takes self discipline to find strength even in a perceived failure and to allow both parties to grow together or apart in friendship.

A twist ~~~smile~~~

No cym I was not speaking of sexual discipline as much as emotional discipline...as in My opinion BDSM all begins in the mind and from there travels through each sensation and kink.

Thank you for the depth of your response...as always you look past the obvious.

 

[SpectreT]

It's hard. Simple, but hard, to control one's emotions. It takes an act of will that many people don't need to exercize. I have about a year of sucessfully controlling my feelings, and twenty-five years of trying to. My first major depressive episode hit me when I was six. I've been struggling with my emotional self ever since.

That said, I still get kicked into a tailspin occasionally; lose my cool. Usually in competition. I'm fiercely competitive, and unfortunately, not very successful in the many forms of games I play. For example, I'm a terrible chess player, though I love the game. Once in a while, I lose my composure over it, get angry with myself for doing poorly. I'm still working on this; trying to recognize the onset of these feelings and change them before they become anger.

I'm always impressed with those who demonstrate their discipline.

[opinion]There's only one kind of discipline, and it comes from within. We all have a little bit, but like any other skill, it requires practice and effort to strengthen it.) We don't say that we never work out because we're not strong enough, so why do we blame a lack of discipline for not trying to control our emotions? This has baffled me for a little over a year now. You only get better at a skill when you practice it.[/opinion]

 

[MissTaken]

A short tale concerning my experience:

My first Dom lacked self discipline, but his demeanour and emotions were calms as a cucumber.

First Red flag: The man was a financial mess, living paycheck to paycheck, never paying his bills, but always having money for a new cd player etc.

Second Red flag: His time was not disciplined, leaving work early or not going in at all.

Third Red flag: His home was filth, not clutter, but filth. He was always too busy to neaten up, do dishes or take out the trash.

His answer to his financial problems and years of collection agencies etc, was to have his sub take over the finances when he found one. "You can just fix it for me." was actually said.

No, I am not looking for nor have ever looked for a sugar daddy, but he is irresponsible with his money and personal obligations in the extreme.

It rendered the thought, "How can he be control or discipline me when he has no self discipline himself?" "If he doesn't take his own life situation at all seriously, how seriously would he engage in D/s ?"

I soon found that the commitment that was made, wasn't taken seriously at all.

 

[Shadowsdream]

SpectreT and MissT

Two totally different looks into real windows of discipline. So many aspects that many never even consider.

I know where you are coming from SpectreT as I fought the same demons you still fight today. It takes courage and discipline to over come such internal chaos but you are finding that the control CAN come from within.

MissT you are so right about the red flags. Lack of discipline in a Dominant will erode the trusting nature of a D/s relationship. A Dominant (in My opinion) cannot be one step ahead of the one who trusts them with their contentment if they cannot catch up to themselves.

 

[Hecate]

Random thoughts on self discipline

Trust definitely needs to be the base of a strong D/s relation – and there is no way to be trusting someone with your life (yes, Dominants are putting their lives in the hands of their submissives, even if maybe not for the imminent physical danger, but as much for actions like abuse and rape charges or other destructive social, political or professional related actions) if you think there is not a sufficiently reliable and controlled base for that.

To assure that secure, controlled environment, self-discipline is key. By this I do not imply that I as a Dominants am a machine-like being, in constantly 100% control of myself or my environment. Just like everyone else I need to blow steam from time to time... but what I see as self-discipline here is to find the right venue to do so.

I do not, by all means, say that I don't have my "weak moments" as far as my own life choices go (I know I shouldn't have that extra piece of chocolate, but what the heck ... I'll have it anyway). I do not think this makes me an untrustworthy person in the discipline sense, au contraire, I think I need to "slag" on some small things now and then to have the energy and self-discipline where it counts.

Same in my submissives. I do want them , NEED them to be generally self disciplined. I have no intention whatsoever to be a "replacement spine" for someone. O the other hand I do not want a machine, I want a human being, and thus I will accept at times the little lacks of self-discipline where it does make life just that tad bit more agreeable, where I do not see any endangering of the relation or the wellbeing of the sub. That does not mean my "reign" is less firm, less caring or less strict in the overall matter of things.

So for me a sufficiently trustworthy self-discipline is already "maintained" at the point where you can pull yourself back from that little consciously allowed slacking, where you know exactly at all time what you ARE doing. I think I would be a lot more miserable if I were not allowed those little breeches of my own, self-opposed discipline and schedules, and I think so are all submissives. That little bit of pampering our at other times so totally restricted, controlled, steely selves doesn't hurts... as long as there is a clear line drawn and things are brought back on track at any given moment I should decide to do so.

And although I do consider myself a highly self-disciplined and calmly controlled person I will have to vent, to cry from anger and frustration at times and to just simply giggle in the most inopportune moments. Fact is I usually won't do it – then – but some time later. I can not turn off my emotions and feelings and a certain level of reaction to them, but I can try to keep them in check till the time is more suitable to deal with them.

For me self discipline is much related to self control. Of course none of the above is meant to be read in any form as a lack of self control. I do indulge in little pleasures like procrastination, like that extra glass of wine, that extra piece of chocolate ... but I will consciously decide to do so and I will absolutely be in control of how far I stray from my preset limit.

I will not tolerate any breech of my rules (set for myself as well as for others interacting with me) as a result of lost control, I may accept it as a conscious decision though.

 

[Ebonyfire]

discipline is work

I am not perfect, but I have had chats with other Dommes who have trouble finding suitable submssives to serve them. It is always the subs fault. They are always fakes and wannabes, and she is just too good for them.

However, one always has to do some self evaluation to see what is the root cause (sorry I am in business) of the relationship's failure.

Most often it is the lack of self-discipline on one or both's part that is a major influence on the outcome.

How so:

One example is that it takes a great deal of restraint and self-discipline to more slowly when a new D/s relationship begins.

Does the Domme rush to play and collar a sub before taking the time to get to know the whole person?

I know a "Domme" who locked a sub in a chastity belt at their first meeting. This is after only chatting online and on the telephone for two weeks.

Chastity is something that requires a lot of thought before it's use. On closer examination I foung out that the belt belonged to the sub, and he asked to be locked in it.

Now just because a sub requests a certain activitiy, it does not mean it is the right thing to do.

It takes self discipline to deny a sub something that you know he or she wants, yet you feel it is not yet applicable or advisable to do at that time.

Just my opinion (as always)

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Random thoughts on self discipline

Trust definitely needs to be the base of a strong D/s relation – and there is no way to be trusting someone with your life (yes, Dominants are putting their lives in the hands of their submissives, even if maybe not for the imminent physical danger, but as much for actions like abuse and rape charges or other destructive social, political or professional related actions) if you think there is not a sufficiently reliable and controlled base for that.

Female dominants (like me) are in very real physical danger too. Most of my subs are a hell of a lot stronger than I am, and could beat the shit out of me if they took a mind to. Granted I would get some licks in, but in the end they wold prevail. Many such events have happened.

Most men do not report abuse because of society's view of the male role, and they are ashamed of what has happened to them.

Eb

 

[Hecate]

Very good pont Ebony, and actually one that definitely goes into the self discipline / self control department for submissives....

We are talking here (maybe even more seriously so with female Dominant / male submissive set up) about taking someone to a really edgy place of humiliation and powerfull emotions at times, about pushing limits, about scratching the very self of the person who has given themselves into our care... but in doing so we at times release "fight back" instincts, we release deeply set patterns of defense ... self control here may be absolutely vital in the sub so that it will not end in a physical attack towards the "aggressor".

And no, this is not necessarrily only happening if boundaries have been pushed too far, if there is a lack of communication etc. - it just simply happens just as sub space simply happens, only that this kind of "sub space" goes wrong.

It has never happened to me - but I have heard and read about subs attacking their Dommes and hurting them severely in such momentary fits.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Very good pont Ebony, and actually one that definitely goes into the self discipline / self control department for submissives....

We are talking here (maybe even more seriously so with female Dominant / male submissive set up) about taking someone to a really edgy place of humiliation and powerfull emotions at times, about pushing limits, about scratching the very self of the person who has given themselves into our care... but in doing so we at times release "fight back" instincts, we release deeply set patterns of defense ... self control here may be absolutely vital in the sub so that it will not end in a physical attack towards the "aggressor".

And no, this is not necessarrily only happening if boundaries have been pushed too far, if there is a lack of communication etc. - it just simply happens just as sub space simply happens, only that this kind of "sub space" goes wrong.

It has never happened to me - but I have heard and read about subs attacking their Dommes and hurting them severely in such momentary fits.

Another reason for the Domme's self-discipline to kick in, to make sure that the sub is ready for what she has in store for him, and that she knows how he will react with a high degree of confidence that things will not go wrong on a grand scale.

Eb

 

[Shadowsdream]

Eb and Hecate

As You both state so eloquently self discipline is called upon for safety both of the Dominants themselves and the submissives...no one is infallible nor is anyone touched with the brush of perfection.

But with the discipline that comes from looking inside with honesty all walk a safer road.

Keep the comments coming as all I see is value and Intellect in a most open and caring way.

Thank You My friends!

 

[cymbidia]

There is a tremendous amount of self-discipline inherent in a submissive's decision to be as open and honest to her dom/me as is possible, too.

It is easy, especially for those new to this lifestyle, and so incredibly seductive to fall into the "my dominant is always right and i'll never ever disagree with her/him on anything" mindset. All we have to do is look compliant, smile a lot, moan at the appropriate times, and keep our real thoughts to ourselves - unless, of course, they are flattering toward our dominant.

When we feel rebellious or stubborn or sad or angry or scared, it's often extremely difficult to get the words out to tell our dominant about it. Our words could be heard, even if we don't intend them to be, as critical of our dominant. We could be seen as topping from the bottom by trying to simply get our point across, to be heard. It takes a steady supply of self-discipline to be honest with dominant, especially about the not-so-good stuff.

We know we should be.
We know we have to be.
We know we owe them that honesty.
We know they need that from us.
We know it's the right thing to do.
But we struggle, all of us, sometimes daily, for the self-discipline necessary to just be honest.

"I feel as if you aren't interested in my life goals."
"I am not comfortable having sex with other people in the room."
"It hurts in a bad way when you do that."
"I love you. Do you love me?"

These are all thoughts that might circle around our brains, thoughts we're scared to say aloud to you, our dominant. However, we practice the self-discipline of honesty to you and so we eventually say these words, and the many others like them that cause us small amounts (or large) of panic when we force them out of our mouths.

I've found that, happily, the discipline required in being honest with my dominant seems to spread into other parts of my life, too. I think it's mostly true for most lifestylers. It's a very happy side effect of being so totally kinked.

 

[Shadowsdream]

cym

(It is easy, especially for those new to this lifestyle, and so incredibly seductive to fall into the "my dominant is always right and i'll never ever disagree with her/him on anything" mindset. All we have to do is look compliant, smile a lot, moan at the appropriate times, and keep our real thoughts to ourselves - unless, of course, they are flattering toward our dominant. )

*compliant* as I think you are pointing out is the easy way out and it does take an immense amount of pride and discipline that comes from deep inside to know where compliance becomes an insult to both the Dominant and the submissive. I do not find compliance at the expense of pain (emotion or physical) that is unwarranted to be flattering personally.

But I am flattered when the submissive that has given their freedom to Me feels enough trust in My empathy to trust Me to understand when something just doesn't feel right for them.

I try to stay disciplined enough to keep a watchful eye for all the nuances that makes that special one ebb and flow in emotions but as previously stated We Dom/mes are not infallable and must trust the submissive to take that hard road sometimes and stand up and be heard.

I know it is not easy but it should be respected and highly valued.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Concentration

Shadowsdream,

I am in awe of the amount of concentration that is necessary for a Dom/me to maintain the amount of discipline necessary to eusre a positive result over time in a 24/7 D/s relationship.

I am exhausted with 2 to 3 hours with sissy, and I was over exhausted when bitchboy spent the weekend here. It must be daunting to have that kind of discipline when your submissive is with you all the time.

Yet, as I get closer to my goal, I find it is what I most want, and am willing to do the work to get there.

Eb

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Discipline

Everyone is human before they are dom/me or sub. To me, that means that everyone will have an occasional off day, a day where everything has gone wrong and there's no fixing it. On such a day, one can elect to work the anger/frustration/etc out in some harmless manner, one can take it out on themselves, or one can hurt the people around them.

Those of us who give our personal power to another to use for the betterment of us both, we who are submissive to our dominant partner, can be badly hurt by one who cannot or will not control their moods, discipline themselves. To survive intact, we all learn to protect ourselves from such undependable people before they have a chance to hurt us.
__________________________________________________

*oh yes cym,how true! Been there,done that!!*
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Quote;
How do we determine if they're undependable, undisciplined? Unfortunately, we learn by getting close enough to see it firsthand. There's no other good way to find out if your dominant is disciplined enough to *not* hurt you when s/he can, just because s/he can, unless you get close enough to make that determination.

I think the fear of becoming an anger release tool (rather then a pleasure percussion toy) is what holds so many of us back for so long. We are afraid of you. We've been hurt before and we know that when we bow, when we open ourselves and bare our throats to you, our dominants, you will be able to really hurt us - if we've chosen badly, if you're undisciplined, if you cannot handle yourself and, so, cannot handle us, either.
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*I am not so afraid at least not from a physical standpoint (been abused before)about my current Master hurting me in THAT way as I am about getting hurt emotionally (being without Him )..losing Him is a Constant fear I have ,be it through His untimely death or from me doing something to where He'd feel He would have to "release" me ,but I KNOW in my heart that will NEVER be His choice so I try to calm myself with that knowledge.opening yourself up to someone new IS Very hard indeed and I just want to be able to show through Artful& my relationship,that sometrimes it's worth the risk..to me,trust& discipline go hand in hand ..they Have to..*
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Quote:
Yes, we want you to be disciplined. We want you to know how to deal with disappointment and anger, from us and from outside us, in a way that won't make us pay for your dark mood. We want to be safe with you. We crave your control of us but more then that, we crave the peace and safety we can find in the discipline you offer us from the deep wellspring of your own reserves of discipline.
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**oh my God yesss Cym,peace and safety far out weigh the control,I mean all due respect for my Master and all but,when I am having a bad or stressful week as this past weekend has been for me,I COULD CARE LESS TO HEAR ABOUT "CONTROL"..it's like I eed it,want it from Him and very much CRAVE it too,but I more needed His emotional side (His love) to make me feel safe and at peace...***
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Quote:
We cannot be to you what you need, the disciplined submissive you crave, unless you show us the way first - by example. You lead, we follow. Such is our way.Self-discipline is a set of ever-changing, always present rules, both formalized and very informal, by which i live my life. My days and deeds are structured and given form by a somewhat fluctuating set of disciplines, self-administered and given to me by my dominant (and so, internalized and made into mine) that provide form and focus for my hours.

________________________________
.

**yes We need to be "shown the way" by Your example,such is a Dom/me's responsibility...mine is to OBEY ..I have enough things to have self-discipline about,my temper,myeating habits,making sure that I take my bi-polar meds etc....self-discipline IS ever-changing as Our lives change also...thank-you for this post CYM,IT WAS VERY well put *

 

[Lancecastor]

An interesting topic for discussion, ShadowsDream, as yours most often are.

I agree heartily that control is at the root of any successful D/s rapport, and that control, like so many other things, begins from within or is of little value to another.

I consider self-discipline to be a part of that which enables Me to get where I want to go and do the things I want to do on My terms.

As PBW pointed out, we each have malleablility and choice in the aspects we weight or show to others in achieving our goals.

Personally, I try not to be so inflexible in my approach to things that I appear too stiff or unyielding....some D people tend to, in my view, enslave themselves to ritual, attitude and such that they become comic book D charicatures.

Likewise, in person, I try not to be so tangential as to result in people thinking I have no center...though sometimes I will purposely be a charicature of silliness just for fun....much in the same way as others might be extra stern to achieve their goals.

To each his own, I figure....but sure, of course...a complete lack of backbone is not attractive, as at some point the lack of raw material obviates the other sweetness the candidate may possess.

Cheers;
Lance

Hot4Heels has brought up a subject that has caught My attention.

I often wonder why it is so difficult for some Dom/mes and submissives to acquire self discipline or to utilize it.

As Hot4Heels has so aptly pointed out if one can not control themselves they have little to give and little to receive.

Without self discipline one party in the relationship will eventually become a burden to the other party.

Submissives how do you find a bases for trust in a Dominant that cannot control their own out bursts or remain cool under day to day pressures?

Dominants how do you find a bases for trust in a submissive that has no self discipline?

Both...what do you consider to be self discipline?

 

[Shadowsdream]

Eb

24/7 Domination and submission is exhausting, exhilerating and more work to keep afloat than could be imagined but if the magic is strong enough and the discipline to be all that each partner can be is sincere there is little I would not give up for this reality.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Lance

(I agree heartily that control is at the root of any successful D/s rapport, and that control, like so many other things, begins from within or is of little value to another. )

Agreed and I often wonder if the word *control* derived from *self-control* or the other way around.

O no I see another thread coming up!

In simple terms one feeds off of the other, both strong words that fit well for both the Dominant and the submissive.

Neither control nor self control can be feigned though illusions run rampant for short periods. An amazing world we find Ourselves in as each day We earn the right to call it home.

Thank You for participating as so many windows are thrown open.

 

[Lancecastor]

I often wonder if the word *control* derived from *self-control* or the other way around.

I'd say the former precedes the latter liguistically, but without the latter, any attempted exercise of the former is of little lasting value in any situation, D/s or otherwise.

Cheers;
Lance

 

[WillowPuss]

Another assignment that is late ... may I have an extension in answering?
please?

if I beg really prettily?