Did I just hear this right?

[Coolville]

It took that news story to make you realize that the United States is a backward shithole full of poorly educated, blood-thirsty fascists? Same shit, different day.

Nope.
I already knew it.
Just yet another confirmation.
More to come.
Daily basis.
Sad.

 

[bknight2602]

Tonight Texas carries out its 7th execution this year...

Jeez it's only February 4...

ppman

Maybe you're looking for a higher number?

 

[teddybear4play]

Hi gang....ahhhh this is Teddy bear four play.....duhhhhhhh...lame.

How fucking embarrassing.

I dont thump the bible asshole....your crowd does.....

It says though shalt not murder.....but you want to muder.
It says vengence is mine sayeth the lord...but you want to exact your own vengance.

I am not pro abortion....but I am pro choice....I am not some arrogant bible thumping redneck hillbilly hypocrite.

My support of capital punishment is not predicated on my religious beliefs, but if it's Biblical support you want, put your quote into context:

"Do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord . . . Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities . . . For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil . . . For [the ruler] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Romans 12:19, 13:1-4).

If you think that the death penalty is not applied justly, then stake your claim there. You sound a lot more intelligent that way.

TB4p

 

[Killswitch]

In all fairness...I am not a religious man.....but I dont have to be to know that killing a human being for revenge is wrong.

Furthermore killing a human being without his/her consent (assisted suicide for terminally ill people) is wrong for any other reason.

We are becoming more and more what we used to dispise in this country, and we are getting better, and better at justifying it too.

 

[modest mouse]

http://www.aclu.org/images/client/ACF2745.gif

 

[Tungwagger]

Yes, but in civilised countries we don't write off a citizen after a crime. They are still members of our society and we accept that something went wrong in their lives at some point that led to the violent crime.

16 years in jail and that time is used on rehabilitation of the individual. And, in Denmark, 85% of them return to society after those 16 years and never revert to violent crime again, living normal lives. Then they end up putting themselves to good use in society and repaying, indirectly, the costs we ensued keeping them incarcarated.

Highest rehablitation rate in the world. Similar in the other Scandinavian countries.

You people just write them off. If you don't slaughter them, you condemn them to a worthless life without any possibility for making good. They can't even vote!

Barbarians, the lot of you.

I take it you have no interest in coming to our country and becoming an activist against the death penalty?

Those who live in countries other than the US don't seem to grasp American ideals...

The founding fathers left England and formed this country to avoid having others tell us what is right/wrong/and best for us.

Are we a perfect society? No, but what society is?

 

[Tungwagger]

In all fairness...I am not a religious man.....but I dont have to be to know that killing a human being for revenge is wrong.

Furthermore killing a human being without his/her consent (assisted suicide for terminally ill people) is wrong for any other reason.

We are becoming more and more what we used to dispise in this country, and we are getting better, and better at justifying it too.

You call it revenge...I call it paying the ultimate price for the crime.

Semantics is the only thing separating our differences.

In all fairness to those who are fervently anti-death penalty. Most death row cases extend well beyond 11 years after initial sentencing. In that time they have numerous appeals and channels to prove they were wrongly convicted.

 

[Guest]

 

[Nobby Stiles]

It's really a UK related story. The man due to be executed is a Brit although he claims he was innocent of an actual murder some years ago...

He confesses to being present at the time though...

ppman

His claim to being a Brit is pretty tenuous, both his parents were US citizens serving in the US military in the UK at the time of his birth. He returned to the US with his parents a couple of years later and until he was sentanced to death never at any time claimed to be British. His claim to be a Brit is simply his lawyers attempts to grasp at any straw available to prevent his execution, understandable in his circumstances.

The exact same thing happened last year with another person who having been a US citizen all his life and in that case had served in the US navy, suddenly when faced with his own country putting him to death decided he was actually a British citizen.

Tough shit mate.

 

[p_p_man]

The founding fathers left England and formed this country to avoid having others tell us what is right/wrong/and best for us.

Are you talking about this group?

"The Pilgrims were English Separatists who founded (1620) Plymouth Colony in New England. In the first years of the 17th century, small numbers of English Puritans broke away from the Church of England because they felt that it had not completed the work of the Reformation. They committed themselves to a life based on the Bible. Most of these Separatists were farmers, poorly educated and without social or political standing."

Or this lot?

"The original states, except Rhode Island, collectively appointed 70 individuals to the Constitutional Convention, but a number did not accept or could not attend. Those who did not attend included Richard Henry Lee, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Samuel Adams and, John Hancock.

In all, 55 delegates attended the Constitutional Convention sessions, but only 39 actually signed the Constitution. The delegates ranged in age from Jonathan Dayton, aged 26, to Benjamin Franklin, aged 81, who was so infirm that he had to be carried to sessions in a sedan chair."

If the first, they left England for religious reasons and if the second, they didn't leave England at all...they were already in America.

Answers! I want answers! Yet another piece of American disinformation thrust upon the world!

You lot can't be trusted on anything...



ppman

 

[Tungwagger]

Are you talking about this group?

"The Pilgrims were English Separatists who founded (1620) Plymouth Colony in New England. In the first years of the 17th century, small numbers of English Puritans broke away from the Church of England because they felt that it had not completed the work of the Reformation. They committed themselves to a life based on the Bible. Most of these Separatists were farmers, poorly educated and without social or political standing."

Or this lot?

"The original states, except Rhode Island, collectively appointed 70 individuals to the Constitutional Convention, but a number did not accept or could not attend. Those who did not attend included Richard Henry Lee, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Samuel Adams and, John Hancock.

In all, 55 delegates attended the Constitutional Convention sessions, but only 39 actually signed the Constitution. The delegates ranged in age from Jonathan Dayton, aged 26, to Benjamin Franklin, aged 81, who was so infirm that he had to be carried to sessions in a sedan chair."

If the first, they left England for religious reasons and if the second, they didn't leave England at all...they were already in America.

Answers! I want answers! Yet another piece of American disinformation thrust upon the world!

You lot can't be trusted on anything...



ppman

Gee, I must have arrived now...peepeeman is flaming me.....

Okay Peepeeman...Now we will conduct a rudimentary lesson in basic reading comprehension.

The founding fathers left England and FORMED this country to avoid having others tell us what is right/wrong/and best for us.
FORMED


Pardon me for having the audacity to infer that the founding fathers left England because the English society wasn't for them...

I tend to view most rebelliousness against governments as the founding fathers of something new.

Formed as in: Revolution.....

Nice try though...

You lose....

 

[p_p_man]

The founding fathers left England and FORMED this country to avoid having others tell us what is right/wrong/and best for us.
Nowhere in my sentence is the word "leave"

But...but...but...

The Pilgrim Fathers left England for religious reasons...

The Founding Fathers became prominent much later and were for the most part born and bred in America...



ppman

 

[Tungwagger]

But...but...but...

The Pilgrim Fathers left England for religious reasons...

The Founding Fathers became prominent much later and were for the most part born and bred in America...



ppman

Point taken...

However you want to phrase it...

But the fact is the American revolution was about escaping the tyrannical clutches of the King and his taxes. Therefore, my argument is still valid that America was formed based on the presumption that no country had the right to tell us what to do.

The only thing my post was guilty of was calling the founding fathers the pilgrims...my mistake..but the founding fathers were indeed British subjects were they not?

 

[p_p_man]

Point taken...

However you want to phrase it...

But the fact is the American revolution was about escaping the tyrannical clutches of the King and his taxes. Therefore, my argument is still valid that America was formed based on the presumption that no country had the right to tell us what to do.

The only thing my post was guilty of was calling the founding fathers the pilgrims...my mistake..but the founding fathers were indeed British subjects were they not?

Well let's face it...

We are meant to be two countries separated by a common language...



ppman

 

[Texan]

I'm very proud of how Texas administers justice to its worst criminals. The death penalty isn't handed out liberally, but in only a very few murder cases. Those cases are appealed and reviewed automatically, and are subject to countless additional appeals.

If you don't agree with the death penalty, that's fine. But if you don't understand why it is favored by a very large majority in this country, and over 80% of the Texas population, then I suggest that it's not Texans who are ignorant, but YOU. We are neither uneducated nor ignorant. We just understand that a person should be held responsible for their actions. We also believe the victim and society have as much right to justice as the criminal.

Those who accuse Texans and Americans of being backward are stupid. Those who believe the death penalty is handed out inequitably based upon race are either ignorant or biggots. I have seen a lot of creative writing on this thread and in most places where arrogant, ignorant people try to condemn the rights of a society to "execute" justice.

There are some very good arguments against the death penalty. The inability of the court system to be 100% correct in its decisions, is a good argument against the death penalty, however to many of us, it is not an adequate argument. The right of government to extract justice, is a topic that can produce some viable arguments against the death penalty.

The statements by Coolville that the death penalty is barbaric, or that those of us who advocate it, are "hillbillies," is ridiculous. You are less enlightened than you think, and most of us can see that clearly.

 

[Tungwagger]

Well let's face it...

We are meant to be two countries separated by a common language...



ppman

As it should be...

I've always been of the opinion that someone should be happy elsewhere instead of miserable here. (general statement)

No offense taken, and hope none was inferred.

I am not pro death penalty, nor am I anti-death penalty.

I believe it should be used in the most extreme cases.

For instance, I believe that Manson should have recieved it.

John Wayne Gacy too, and Jeffrey Dahmer ( an inmate beat the government to it)

The 2 D.C. sniper suspects should get it if convicted.

However you believe, inferring that the U.S. somehow is a backward society because we still have the death penalty only accomplishes your goals. There are alot of people in this country that believe a death row inmate should only have 1 argument on appeal (meaning bundle it all together, instead of "ok, that didn't work, how about this argument?") But when most death row inmates have 11 plus years of appeals, I can hardly see how that infringes upon their right to address the injustice they believe has been done against them.

Sure, there are some instances when a person who really is innocent is put to death.But for the most part, the guilty are the ones paying the ultimate price. Some people are just psychopaths and will never change.

 

[modest mouse]

Regarding Race

Some Stats

 

[Guest]

Killswitch

 

[Guest]

Re: Regarding Race

 

[Azwed]

Re: Re: Regarding Race

You beat me too it.


Where did he get his 95% minority?

The sky??

That is still nearly 50% of the excuted being minorities when only 8 or 9% of the population is black. I am not sure what the percentages are for the other groups.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Regarding Race

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Re: Re: Regarding Race

The sky??

That is still nearly 50% of the excuted being minorities when only 8 or 9% of the population is black. I am not sure what the percentages are for the other groups.

I believe the actual percentage of blacks in the U.S. is closer to 12-13%.

Sure the argument could be made that a disproportionately larger number as a percentage are on death row.

But I do not buy into the notion that the reason for that is because they are products of their society. Just as I don't buy into the notion that smokers have the right to sue tobacco companies. It was a choice...bad as that choice may be, it was still a choice.

I have the choice to drive my vehicle either sober or drunk. To beat up my neighbor because he's an idiot, or not.

The knowledge that I could wind up in jail, or worse is what controls my actions, not my society.

 

[Azwed]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Regarding Race

WOuld you say they are statistically more inclined to commit murders??

I dunno. I wouldnt say so but why the high percent?

Poor people are more likely to commit crimes and therefore more likely to commit murder. Minorities have higher poverty rates then the majority but is that alone enough to account for the higher percentage?

I don't think it is and there is research to support that position. There are people however who will either ignore this research or only look at the research that counters the previous research.

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Regarding Race

The knowledge that I could wind up in jail, or worse is what controls my actions, not my society.

Let me re-phrase that before it's twisted around...

Society sets the standards by which I make a choice for myself, but society doesn't dictate to me which direction I take.

 

[Purrde Flower]

After reading a few of the post here it became obvious to me that none of you have ever been involved in an actual murder case other than watching it on the television. You haven't had a friend or relative murdered for no reason.

I wonder how many people would be against the death penalty had someone close to them been murdered.