Deportation without chance to plead case in court

[AStranger2004]

Wow. What amazing insight. My thoughts exactly.

Thanks.

You're SO welcome Debbie. It's part of my service to those of you who are...um...too busy...to have actually read any history.

 

[Guest]

I am sarcastic quite a bit, but that was a serious statement.

Knowing that you consider yourself to be a socialist puts you in the same category as Redwave in my Lit directory.

Hahahaha! Then I guess it wouldn't surprise you that I happen to be friends with Redwave. Oh well. C'est la vie.

 

[LadyG]

Is it a requirement in all states of the US that you must carry ID? Citizens must prove to those who serve them that they are who they say they are??

I don't know about the US, but as an Canadian Citizen, I have a card with a picture that. I've never had to use it, in let's see-too many years to admit to, but I have one.

My regular ID like Social Security #, Health Card (picture), etc., all works!

If you're illegal, you get deported. Simple. Why the hell not?

And, let me throw the cat amidst the pigeons now...As a Canadian Citzen (not by birth), if I commit a crime, then I should do the time and THEN be deported. It's a privilege to become a citizen of another country, not a right.

 

[Guest]

. double post

 

[Guest]

If you're a citizen then you carry your ID, simple.

Yeah, but what I.D. is considered to be proof? Driver's licenses? You can get those in some states even if you're not legal. How many citizens carry around a passport or birth certificate when they're not planning to travel? They might be within 100 miles of the border and get stopped based upon how they look. They're in the wrong place at the wrong time. That would be unfortunate. And again, whose to say that a particularly racist border patrol person wouldn't pick up a citizen, ignore all proof of citizenship, and deport the person based on racial profiling? Obviously that would be wrong, but who is there to prevent that from happening? I think these are legitimate concerns.

 

[LadyG]

Gee, I think if you WERE a citizen and got deported, you'd get back REAL quick, if only save a lawsuit.

 

[AStranger2004]

I don't know about the US, but as an Canadian Citizen, I have a card with a picture that. I've never had to use it, in let's see-too many years to admit to, but I have one.

My regular ID like Social Security #, Health Card (picture), etc., all works!

If you're illegal, you get deported. Simple. Why the hell not?

And, let me throw the cat amidst the pigeons now...As a Canadian Citzen (not by birth), if I commit a crime, then I should do the time and THEN be deported. It's a privilege to become a citizen of another country, not a right.

Hmm....well, at the risk of being pigeonholed with those whacky old libertarians, I confess I really don't like the idea of having to carry ID to prove to some snot-nosed official that I am who I say I am, and therefore have the right to walk the streets of my country.

And as for your imminent deportation, I hope you still feel the same way when you're released from prison. *s* Good luck!

 

[BoobsNBrains]

You don't think it's just a bit dangerous to pick up people and deport them without being able to bring their case before a judge? What if a person is a resident, a citizen, etc? What's to stop them from being deported anyway just on racial profiling? I see a large potential for racism and abuse here. Who ensures that the border patrol people don't just deport any one they feel like deporting, legal or not? at least having a case brought in front of a judge would provide some protection against abuse of authority. But now what kind of protection is there? I'm not sure there is any.

Did you not read this paragraph? :

Mr. Hutchinson said that border agents would be trained in asylum law and that immigrants who showed a credible fear of persecution would be provided hearings before immigration judges, not returned to hostile governments. "That right," he said of the right to apply for asylum, "is very important."


They're to be given 8 days to either prove they're legal or to show reasonable fear of persecution.

Heaven forbid people actually follow the LAW and go about the process of becoming a citizen...background and history be damned!

Your views scare me, Owera. Do you think we should just fling open the gates and roll out the red carpet for anyone and everyone who wants to come to the US? That's not a safety/security issue...

 

[love2teaseu]

Hmm....well, at the risk of being pigeonholed with those whacky old libertarians, I confess I really don't like the idea of having to carry ID to prove to some snot-nosed official that I am who I say I am, and therefore have the right to walk the streets of my country.

I'll second that.

 

[Guest]

Gee, I think if you WERE a citizen and got deported, you'd get back REAL quick, if only save a lawsuit.

Well I would hope so. But there is still the potential of happening. And I'm especially concerned about those who have resident status, as it won't be as easy for them to get back. There's also that little matter of where they deport you. Some places are closer than others.

 

[bg23]

If you're a citizen then you carry your ID, simple.

ID isn't going to stop them from deporting you if they wanted to, seeing as to how they're not required to put you to trial beforehand.

Even if you come back and file a lawsuit, the damage has already been done, has it not? You have been deported, potentially abused, and then comes all the court costs, costs of legal action, time, inconvenience...and you may not even win the case.

 

[AStranger2004]

ID isn't going to stop them from deporting you if they wanted to, seeing as to how they're not required to put you to trial beforehand.

Even if you come back and file a lawsuit, the damage has already been done, has it not? You have been deported, potentially abused, and then comes all the court costs, costs of legal action, time, inconvenience...and you may not even win the case.

Yep....not at all sure that lawsuits are a universal panacea. But what do I know?

 

[love2teaseu]

Well I would hope so. But there is still the potential of happening. And I'm especially concerned about those who have resident status, as it won't be as easy for them to get back. There's also that little matter of where they deport you. Some places are closer than others.

I see that you are concerned about citizens being deported. But I have a question to ask...... If they were just being dicks, how would they know where to deport you?

I am a half czech, a quarter russian, and a quarter french, so where would they send me??

 

[Guest]

Did you not read this paragraph? :

Mr. Hutchinson said that border agents would be trained in asylum law and that immigrants who showed a credible fear of persecution would be provided hearings before immigration judges, not returned to hostile governments. "That right," he said of the right to apply for asylum, "is very important."


They're to be given 8 days to either prove they're legal or to show reasonable fear of persecution.

Heaven forbid people actually follow the LAW and go about the process of becoming a citizen...background and history be damned!

Your views scare me, Owera. Do you think we should just fling open the gates and roll out the red carpet for anyone and everyone who wants to come to the US? That's not a safety/security issue...

And who is to say what constitutes a "credible fear"? And have you checked into the asylum laws? It's quite difficult to fit under that category. And again, what is there to prevent a border patrol person from abusing his/her authority and dismissing the fears of a person and his/her desire to come before a judge?

 

[bg23]

You're SO welcome Debbie. It's part of my service to those of you who are...um...too busy...to have actually read any history.

What do you mean by this? Anyone who has not heard of that saying has not read any history? This is what you mean?

Are you trying to start something, Stranger?

And I take issue with that. If a good man is willing to do nothing, he cannot be so good, can he?

So there!

*tongue*

 

[Guest]

I should add here that a law such as this certainly isn't going to be that useful in protecting us from terrorists, lest anyone try to make that argument.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

I see that you are concerned about citizens being deported. But I have a question to ask...... If they were just being dicks, how would they know where to deport you?

I am a half czech, a quarter russian, and a quarter french, so where would they send me??

this is a good question. The answer is that they wouldn't know where, but they don't often care. If they do it the same way they've been doing it they'll deport you whereever is most convenient for them. For example, many Spanish speakers are deported to Mexico, even when they're not Mexicans. This most frequently happens with Guatemalans and Hondurans, but has also happened to people from as far away as Ecuador. I'm sure that is not supposed to be how that works, but it happens nonetheless.

 

[Lust Engine]

And who is to say what constitutes a "credible fear"? And have you checked into the asylum laws? It's quite difficult to fit under that category. And again, what is there to prevent a border patrol person from abusing his/her authority and dismissing the fears of a person and his/her desire to come before a judge?

I've seen the customs folks be pretty tough at times here at the US/ Canadian border and to their own country's people.

I also know that not ALL customs agents are not created equal but God forbid I come up on one that is less knowlegable on asylum law if that's what I seek.

Judge & jury all in one booth- scary thought indeed.

 

[love2teaseu]

this is a good question. The answer is that they wouldn't know where, but they don't often care. If they do it the same way they've been doing it they'll deport you whereever is most convenient for them. For example, many Spanish speakers are deported to Mexico, even when they're not Mexicans. This most frequently happens with Guatemalans and Hondurans, but has also happened to people from as far away as Ecuador. I'm sure that is not supposed to be how that works, but it happens nonetheless.

I think if they did that, then I would stick out like a turd in a punch bowl!

That would undoubtedly raise a stink when I made my way to a US embassy.

 

[AStranger2004]

What do you mean by this? Anyone who has not heard of that saying has not read any history? This is what you mean?

Are you trying to start something, Stranger?

And I take issue with that. If a good man is willing to do nothing, he cannot be so good, can he?

So there!

*tongue*

Look, you. My comment was in response to what I took to be Deb's sarcasm. If you take exception, then I would suggest again that we step outside and resolve the matter in a civilised manner.

Ptui!

 

[Guest]

I've seen the customs folks be pretty tough at times here at the US/ Canadian border and to their own country's people.

I also know that not ALL customs agents are not created equal but God forbid I come up on one that is less knowlegable on asylum law if that's what I seek.

Judge & jury all in one booth- scary thought indeed.

Exactly. Some people will do their job according to the guidelines and knowledgeably, and others won't give a shit and be in a pissy mood for X reasons. Having lived right near the Canadian border and having traversed it many times I know exactly what you're talking about. I'd hate to see what those who are serious assholes would do.

 

[Guest]

I think if they did that, then I would stick out like a turd in a punch bowl!

That would undoubtedly raise a stink when I made my way to a US embassy.

Hopefully it would! If it didn't that would e even scarier. But it would be much better if we could prevent that from happening in the first place by getting rid of this ridiculous new empowerment of border patrols.

 

[Guest]

Productive ideas?

At this point I'd like to open up discussion to ideas for action regarding this. If this indeed happens, what can we do about it? Better yet, what can we do to prevent it from happening? Any ideas???

First, I think we need to make a lot of noise about this. But obviously it has to go beyond that because I doubt anything less than a sonic boom is going to get the attention of the current administration and
even if it did, I don't think it would care to change things. I'm thinking more along the lines of putting this in terms of "what's in it for the government". I hate to do it that way, but I think that's the only way the current administration might change its mind about this. If we could find a way to show the government that this policy will cause it more harm than good, I think we'd get somewhere. Hitting them in the wallet is always good, too. So putting things in terms of money loss is effective. Any other ideas?

 

[Guest]

Re: Productive ideas?