Demolished

[Mac98]

Pardon me for the following novel, I just need to get this off my chest. I've had a rough weak, like many people, I know. Luckily, though, I have a comunity of people whom I communicate with from time to time on the internet who are willing to listen a little, so I'll exploit that privelidge.

Let me start from the top, it'll be easier for me to express what I have to say.

A few days ago, I went out to the grocery store to pick up a few things and noticed the cashier was really cute. I left it at that, nothing more. Funny story: The guy in front of me told her how fake her hair looked (she had recently dyed them, I'm guessing) and that it didn't suit her. Then, he proceeded to ask me why I didn't have an air miles card and then asked me why I was hiding my pin number when paying by Interac. Finally, he criticized the store's dress-code and that it made the cashiers look funny. For the first time it my life, I told someone twice my age, who wasn't a high school teacher, to shut up. I thought I should share this anecdote before I go on.

yesterday, I expressed this to a friend of mine. My best friend, actually, who was with his girlfriend (or ex-girlfriend, I haven't a clue if they're still going out or not. We'll call them friends with benefits for the sake of giving a title to their relationship). This is the same girl I've told many of you that I've had really strong feelings for. Anyways, that's besides the point. The story goes I told my friend, matter-of-factly, that the cashier was cute, but before I could express the rest of the story to them, my friend's fuck friend (God, I hate that term. Let's just abbreviate this to FF)... my friend's FF cut me off and asked me why I didn't have a girlfriend. Of course, my natural response was utter confusion as to why she'd ask this and what the fuck I was supposed to answer. Then, finally, I answered "Umm... I don't know?" in a sort of questionning, unsure way.

She told me she thought it was weird that I didn't have a girlfriend in so long (and acknowledged my breif relationship with a friend that didn't last very long). I soon came to realize she was insinuating I might be gay. Now, before I go on, I assure everyone here I'm not. I have nothing against homosexuals, I couldn't care less about weather someone prefers men or women, but I myself, prefer the female gender. I related this to her, and told her that I didn't have an easy personality (I tend to be shy, reserved and introverted to people I don't know) and that I was very picky in terms of physical attraction and personality. It's at this point I thought the discussion was over, but boy was I wrong.

My friend's FF procceeded to LACE into me. She wasn't aggressive or angry or anything... just matter-of-factly telling me how insecure, unconfident I was and trying to put on a blank persona like nothing bothered me. Telling me I was virtually inapproachable and drove everyone away from myself. She went on for about... at least a whole minute leaving me somewhat shocked and dumbfounded. My initial reaction was to lace into HER, but I absolutely knew how right she was. I told her she was a stuck up bitch that was never told she wasn't as attractive as she thought (which is somewhat of a lie, given that I've always thought she was stunning).

Appologies were handed today (a day later), but the whole experience has got me thinking a lot. I took a long walk tonight and after writing this, will leave the house again for another walk, to try and understand what the hell just happened. I won't lie. This whole thing has left me demoralized. To be told by the person I've been the most in love with in my life that I'm inapproachable and insecure and that at first glance, people don't wanna come talk to me has made me sink my head between my shoulders, looking for the last bit of dignity I have left.

On one hand, I'm conscious that she isn't entirely wrong. I wouldn't have expressed it like she did, but she's not completely wrong. I'm not very sociable to new people. I keep the same friends for a long time, though they are few and can count on my fingers the number of people I've recently met say, in the past 6 months.

On the other hand... what the FUCK, dude!!! I'm not sure weather I should concede and accept that she's right or weather I should give in to this rage overwhelming me and tear this fucken laptop to pieces. I'm not a fucken monster! In fact, I'm usually the first person willing to lend a helping hand or offer a shoulder for people to cry on. And these same people who I lend my time two have the audacity to rip me into pieces?? I'm unapproachable?? Unsociable??? Maybe if I wore my cap sideways, wore my jeans under my ass, listened to a rich, retarded, horny little asshole rap about how many women he bangs a day, I'd get more attention? Maybe then I'd be more approachable! Heck, maybe if I went out to clubs, got shit faced and banged every girl incapable of standing up, I wouldn't be in this situation would I?

So I ask myself: What's the answer?? What's the lesson in all this? Do nice guys honsetly finish last?? Am I cursed to live a life of solitude and ridicule all in order to maintain my integrity?? Should I STOP being so available to people who feel it ok to smack me in the face when all I want to do is relate a fun anecdote to my friend? Do women ACTUALLY prefer "bad boys"? I thought not being a dick was priority #1 on women's list followed by confidence and looks? Sure, confidence isn't peaking right now (obviously), but where the hell does care and good-nature come into play, really? Aside from the bogus "list" many people keep coming back to, what's the answer? What is it? Is it me?? Is it my generation?? My standards?? All of the above or none of the above?? I'm getting pretty fucken sick and tired of being taken for the good-for-nothing "nice guy".

Anyways, I'm sorry I have to bore you all with this. I just needed to get this off my chest and so far, the people of HT have been welcoming to any and all venting. Let me make this clear: I'm not looking for pitty! I'm not seeking attention, I'm really just venting! Spewing my confused anger in hope of releiving some of the stress the past few days have brought.

Thanks for listening.

Mac

 

[fuckmeat]

Hi Mac98

I can see how cut up you are about all this and I'm sorry you're going through it. There are a couple of observations I'd like to make, based on what you've written here and I hope you will be able to see the kindness and best wishes in what I'd like to say. I certainly don't want to be 'lacing into you' too.

You say this girl is stunning and that you've had strong feelings for her for a long time, despite her relationship with your friend and your own desire to meet someone who isn't attached. That suggests to me that the way you interact with this girl isn't going to be the same as how you treat most people, this means she has perhaps a false idea of how you are. Most guys who are attracted to another guy's 'FF' or whatever (who are decent enough not to try getting with her anyway) will avoid too much interaction and won't show emotion around her. That's self preservation on your part but it probably looks like insecurity and aloofness to her, because she doesn't understand how strongly you feel about her. Am I right? If so, she really isn't well placed to start making judgements about your character, so you shouldn't take what she says too much to heart.

Also, if she is 'stunning' she is likely one of those people who is naturally confident and outgoing. People who are extremely good looking often don't realise just what a huge advantage it gives them socially and how much the admiration of others validates and bolsters their self esteem. Us averagely attractive, normal people have to work harder to be liked and accepted socially. People who are naturally introverted and shy can have closed body language that makes them seem less approachable but it's often because they have a greater fear of rejection socially and are therefore less inclined to make the first move to meet and interact with new people.

Of course you don't have to become a hip-hop fan and wannabe date rapist to be a more popular person. I do think though that maybe you need to choose different friends. This girl's casual thing with her boyfriend is eating away at you. You don't really want to meet someone else, you want her. I think your attempts to meet someone else have maybe been halfhearted because some small part of you wants to be available if and when she finally drops her guy for good. Living like that will corrode any man's self esteem. What you're doing here by being her friend and letting her walk over you because you're infatuated reads like a form of emotional self-harm to me. Looking at other posts and threads you have made, this is a toxic friendship for you that you still won't walk away from. To crown it all, from what she has said, she doesn't even have love and respect for you even as a friend, let alone anything more. This girl is bad for you. She's unwittingly emasculating you and eroding your self-respect.

There are plenty of other people around that you can seek friendship with who have the same likes and interests than you. I really think you need to leave these two well alone and try to meet new people for friendship that's genuine and reciprocal on both sides.

These are just my thoughts and I only know you from a few posts. I really hope I haven't upset or offended you in any way.

Hugs

 

[SpecialKay62]

Hey!

I hope you feel better. You remind me very much of a young man I know. It's so hard to go through things that make you question who you are, at the core. I have no brilliant advice for you, except this: If there is something about your personality/approach to people that YOU'D like to change...work on changing it. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen if you become aware of how you deal with others. As for your friend and his FF (love that term, btw)....I think you should try hanging out with some other people. Take a class, join a club, go to a new bar, go to a poetry reading or an open mic night....do something out of the ordinary for YOU. It's very stimulating and will take you "out of yourself" so to speak. Best wishes!

 

[culloden]

Mac, we've talked before. I've got to tell you, the gal you've been wanting for so long, your buddy's FF, doesn't sound like such a prize. Whether or not she made valid points, it sounds like she felt it was okay to treat you rudely.

Relax. Be yourself, and talk to people. The right girl will come along.

 

[Leopald]

As a man who has virtually the same personality type as you (from what you've described), and someone who has regrettably been in the same situation, I have a pretty good idea of what you're feeling.

Its been said, but the advice is sound; I would suggest seperating yourself from those two people, at least for now. If you really are like me, being around them is like a dagger to the stomach, even when she's not pointing out your flaws. I would strive to keep the friendship, if possible, but just get some seperation.

Analyze your life. And don't turn it into a self-hating session, either. Maybe write some stuff down; your good qualities and the things you would like to work on. If you can, find a friend or family member that is willing to help, as long as you can trust them to be completely honest with you. And be honest with yourself. As I said, you're looking at good qualites just as much as "bad" ones.

Changes won't come overnight, as was said, but look at each item on the list, good and bad, and ask yourself why you have that quality. Each answer may help to explore the deeper issues you have, good or bad.

Don't withdraw from people. Its often my first tendancy, so I expect its yours as well.

If I'm way off base, feel free to ignore this entire post as the ravings of a crazy man.

 

[Mac98]

Hi Mac98

I can see how cut up you are about all this and I'm sorry you're going through it. There are a couple of observations I'd like to make, based on what you've written here and I hope you will be able to see the kindness and best wishes in what I'd like to say. I certainly don't want to be 'lacing into you' too.

You say this girl is stunning and that you've had strong feelings for her for a long time, despite her relationship with your friend and your own desire to meet someone who isn't attached. That suggests to me that the way you interact with this girl isn't going to be the same as how you treat most people, this means she has perhaps a false idea of how you are. Most guys who are attracted to another guy's 'FF' or whatever (who are decent enough not to try getting with her anyway) will avoid too much interaction and won't show emotion around her. That's self preservation on your part but it probably looks like insecurity and aloofness to her, because she doesn't understand how strongly you feel about her. Am I right? If so, she really isn't well placed to start making judgements about your character, so you shouldn't take what she says too much to heart.

Also, if she is 'stunning' she is likely one of those people who is naturally confident and outgoing. People who are extremely good looking often don't realise just what a huge advantage it gives them socially and how much the admiration of others validates and bolsters their self esteem. Us averagely attractive, normal people have to work harder to be liked and accepted socially. People who are naturally introverted and shy can have closed body language that makes them seem less approachable but it's often because they have a greater fear of rejection socially and are therefore less inclined to make the first move to meet and interact with new people.

Of course you don't have to become a hip-hop fan and wannabe date rapist to be a more popular person. I do think though that maybe you need to choose different friends. This girl's casual thing with her boyfriend is eating away at you. You don't really want to meet someone else, you want her. I think your attempts to meet someone else have maybe been halfhearted because some small part of you wants to be available if and when she finally drops her guy for good. Living like that will corrode any man's self esteem. What you're doing here by being her friend and letting her walk over you because you're infatuated reads like a form of emotional self-harm to me. Looking at other posts and threads you have made, this is a toxic friendship for you that you still won't walk away from. To crown it all, from what she has said, she doesn't even have love and respect for you even as a friend, let alone anything more. This girl is bad for you. She's unwittingly emasculating you and eroding your self-respect.

There are plenty of other people around that you can seek friendship with who have the same likes and interests than you. I really think you need to leave these two well alone and try to meet new people for friendship that's genuine and reciprocal on both sides.

These are just my thoughts and I only know you from a few posts. I really hope I haven't upset or offended you in any way.

Hugs

You're not wrong. They've been together for about two years (It would've been 2 years in June) and I've been hanging out on a regular basis with my friend for about one of those years and it was hard to watch them together. This being said, the whole time I've known my best friend was in love with her too (They met through me, believe it or not), I told myself I wouldn't sabotage his chances out of jelousy and knowing they had something going, I encouraged my friend to the max to pursue her. Today, he knows how I feel about her and has been quite understanding and grateful that I acted the way I did several years ago. But it was tremendously hard on me and for the past few years, I've put myself into question over and over again, as well as cut contact with both these people for over a year. Heck, I even moved 12 hours away to go to school and kept contact only about one weekend a month.

In all honsety, I don't see much of her anymore since they "broke up" (get this: He sleeps with two other girls at once while they're in a 'break' in their relationship a few months ago, she JUST finds out about it but is too in love with him to actually fully break it off. She moves out, yes, but wants to keep sleeping with him. She actually offered HIM to be FFs. This friend of mine has a serious horseshoe up his fucken ass, it's unbelievable. He must've been a frickin' saint in a past life!) Anyways, my point is: I don't see much of her anymore anyways. This was just one of those rare occasions since they "broke up" that she slept over and I happened to be there the next morning. My best friend's always been respectful and cool with everything... she too, actually, except on that occasion. I'm not sure what made her feel this needed to be said. She appologized for it afterwards, after seeing my reaction, but it still struck me down pretty hard.

Being around her has definately eaten away at me, but I've learned to deal with the heartache long ago and accept that there'll never be anything between us. I HAVE kept an open mind about meeting someone else, though I'm not really the guy going out looking to find someone I can start a relationship with... I go out with the intention of having fun and meeting new people I could end up being friends with... relationships are usually last on my mind. I accepted long ago that nothing'll ever happen between me and her... ever. I'm fine with that now, really.

I hope you feel better. You remind me very much of a young man I know. It's so hard to go through things that make you question who you are, at the core. I have no brilliant advice for you, except this: If there is something about your personality/approach to people that YOU'D like to change...work on changing it. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen if you become aware of how you deal with others. As for your friend and his FF (love that term, btw)....I think you should try hanging out with some other people. Take a class, join a club, go to a new bar, go to a poetry reading or an open mic night....do something out of the ordinary for YOU. It's very stimulating and will take you "out of yourself" so to speak. Best wishes!

You see, I don't mean to be arrogant or conceited, but there's not much about who I am that I want to change. Sure, I could be less of a procrastinator and little minor details like that, but I don't wanna' change who I am for no one. The reason for my introvertedness around new people is that in let's me analyze them before revieling who I am. It let's me judge who I feel actually deserves my time, who I feel I could build a friendship with and who I feel I should get away from. Anyone who knows me will tell you I'm anything but introverted and shy. I judge people a lot by how I see them act in public, how they dress, what music they listen to, etc. For example: Someone who drives his car with the RPM bouncing between 7500 and 8000, with techno music loud enough to propel the car in the air and who wears a tank top with sun glasses at night, is usually not someone I want to be around very much. It just proves to me that this person's main conversation subjects are pussy, cars and techtonic dance... it's not exactly my cup of tea.

Mac, we've talked before. I've got to tell you, the gal you've been wanting for so long, your buddy's FF, doesn't sound like such a prize. Whether or not she made valid points, it sounds like she felt it was okay to treat you rudely.

Relax. Be yourself, and talk to people. The right girl will come along.

Thanks culloden, and I've mentioned before how I'm trying hard to pass on to newer, better things. Like I said, I accepted long ago that nothing between us'll ever happen and I'm ok with it now. Yeah, it's still hard looking at her and melting inside when she smiles and being utterly powerless to change the way I feel, but I've made up my mind a while ago that I cherished my friendship with her boyfriend too much to just walk away from them and leave my open wounds to heal with time.

I still, from time to time, remember how cool she was when I first met her which is what made me fall in love with her in the first place. I don't know if she changed or if I, at the time, just never met the real her before, but it's my first brush with love and it's left an impact. Some of the best times of my life were spent with her, because, believe it or not, we, at one brief time, were good friends before she even met my best friend. So being shot down like I was the other day by her isn't easy to take. So no, I guess she isn't much of a prize, but those fond memories I have of the person I fell for still trot at the back of my mind from time to time.

 

[Luna_Bella]

Wow, who is she to tell you all this?? I don't care how stunning she is, that was way out of line if you ask me. I would never judge someone like that, especially not someone who is my friend! so some people are less sociable than others, It doesn't mean they are "driving people away".

I am insulted for you!

even if she apologized, the fact that she had the guts to tell you this to begin with repulses me.

honestly I know you are shy but I would have told her the truth(technically, your best friend and her aren't in a relationship anymore and since you don't plan on ever being with her, what would it hurt?) that would have shut her up.

now what did your best friend say about the whole conversation, since he knows your reasons?

I feel for you that was harsh.

 

[culloden]

I still, from time to time, remember how cool she was when I first met her which is what made me fall in love with her in the first place. I don't know if she changed or if I, at the time, just never met the real her before, but it's my first brush with love and it's left an impact. Some of the best times of my life were spent with her, because, believe it or not, we, at one brief time, were good friends before she even met my best friend. So being shot down like I was the other day by her isn't easy to take. So no, I guess she isn't much of a prize, but those fond memories I have of the person I fell for still trot at the back of my mind from time to time.

It isn't simple to be young. Emotions are strong, and experience weak. With time, our friendships change, and most of us realize that at least some of the people we once thought highly of weren't quite what we made them out to be. But that doesn't change the good times, or make the memories of them less valuable.

Summer's coming. You're in college, right? Any chance you could get out of town for the summer? Work somewhere else? Stay with relatives? Sometimes a change of scene is good for a person.

 

[coastal-boy]

Life is weird.

But if you look close enough and not let yourself be blinded by hurt, there is always something that can be gained. But that must come from you...not me telling you what you gained from it.

It's hockey night. Hopefully, this isn't the same girl that spilt beer the other night. I have a thing for women you like hockey. Crack open a brew and let's watch the game

 

[Mac98]

Wow, who is she to tell you all this?? I don't care how stunning she is, that was way out of line if you ask me. I would never judge someone like that, especially not someone who is my friend! so some people are less sociable than others, It doesn't mean they are "driving people away".

I am insulted for you!

even if she apologized, the fact that she had the guts to tell you this to begin with repulses me.

honestly I know you are shy but I would have told her the truth(technically, your best friend and her aren't in a relationship anymore and since you don't plan on ever being with her, what would it hurt?) that would have shut her up.

now what did your best friend say about the whole conversation, since he knows your reasons?

I feel for you that was harsh.

I have to admit, I now regret not having said anything. That really would've put her on the spot and made her swallow her own words. I'm good at dealing with awkward situations since I find most of them to be funny... DAMN IT!! Where were you 4 days ago, Luna???

It isn't simple to be young. Emotions are strong, and experience weak. With time, our friendships change, and most of us realize that at least some of the people we once thought highly of weren't quite what we made them out to be. But that doesn't change the good times, or make the memories of them less valuable.

Summer's coming. You're in college, right? Any chance you could get out of town for the summer? Work somewhere else? Stay with relatives? Sometimes a change of scene is good for a person.

I technically am out of town. I live about 10 hours (give or take) from my friends. Well, now, because school's out since last week, I'm back home, but school is 10 hours away. I was certain a change of scenery was going to help, but so far, it hasn't done much. I made some friends, sure, but most of them aren't REAL friends. More like aquaintences.

Life is weird.

But if you look close enough and not let yourself be blinded by hurt, there is always something that can be gained. But that must come from you...not me telling you what you gained from it.

It's hockey night. Hopefully, this isn't the same girl that spilt beer the other night. I have a thing for women you like hockey. Crack open a brew and let's watch the game

No, she's not the same one. I'd probably be mentally deranged, locked in a high-security assylum somewhere if this girl like hockey too. Imagine that... she'd be like my perfect match, only she'd have some attitude that I'd want to choke-slam out of her, but hey, she'd like hockey, so I could probably let it slide. No, the girl who spilled beer on my rug isn't to my taste physically.

Joking aside though, I don't know what to think of this whole shit stain that seems to follow me everywhere I go. I concede that I was perhaps overly obssesed with this girl. I knew about her flaws and how major they were, but I didn't care. I told myself that if she treated me like she treats her boyfriend, I could accept them (I was thinking hypothetically). I tormented myself for the past 3 years (at LEAST) trying to analyze and decifer exactly how I felt about the whole situation, trying to understand why things were the way they were and what I could do in consequence.

I am seriously in a state of helplessness. For the first time in my life, I feel like there just ISN'T an answer. Things are probably not as rosy as I thought they were and people just aren't as reliable and trustworthy as I once believed them to be (except for all of you, of course ).

Now, my whole view on what I thought love was all about has flipped over upside down and inside out and I don't know what's what anymore. I'm kinda' revolted by everything that's happened towards both myself for not standing up for myself and towards people in general. Like I said, she's somewhat right. In the past 10 years, I've had ONE relationship that last a couple of months and that included sex and nothing else... which wasn't to my liking at the time, believe it or not, since I was looking for more than just sex. And logically, the girl whom I was sleeping with was quite attractive, which means i myself mustn't be a freak of nature. I'm good-hearted, I'm quiet, I'm fair... what the fuck is it about me that I seem to draw all this negative attention to myself?

Maybe it's not supposed to get to me. It most probably shouldn't. But it does. The only person who I've been in love with for most of my teenage years has slammed me to the ground and it seems like the tunnel goes on for another few miles. I honsetly have this pent-up rage inside me since this took place and I am not normally a violent person. I'm perhaps as far away as violent as possible, but recently I feel like breaking things.

I really think finally telling her how I've felt about her all these years at that moment in particular like Lunabella said would've been incredibly gratifying and refreshing... I can't believe I didn't think of that!

 

[fuckmeat]

Is there any kind of counselling you can access through your school? Talking things out properly with someone like that could be the push you need to free yourself of all this existential crap. You already know it's harming you and that you haven't enjoyed the 3 years you've spent infatuated with Miss Mouth Almighty. It sounds to me like you're really close to getting past this, so now is the best time to sit down with a counsellor and work out what steps you need to take to leave these issues behind and look towards the future with a more positive and hopeful outlook.

 

[Mac98]

to be quite honest, I haven't been to counceling since my elementary school told my mother I should. I've never been "comfortable" enough around therapists to actually express myself. I'd usually feel like they were phony and didn't really care about my problems. I mean, if I weren't paying them, we'll agree they wouldn't give 2 shits about me.

Ironically, since then, I've closed down and kept things for myself which, I know, isn't much better in the end. Literotica is my source for getting things off my chest. Most of my friends aren't really people who listen very much. Talk, yes, but not listen... actually, most people I know prefer talking rather than listening...

 

[culloden]

to be quite honest, I haven't been to counceling since my elementary school told my mother I should. I've never been "comfortable" enough around therapists to actually express myself. I'd usually feel like they were phony and didn't really care about my problems. I mean, if I weren't paying them, we'll agree they wouldn't give 2 shits about me.

Ironically, since then, I've closed down and kept things for myself which, I know, isn't much better in the end. Literotica is my source for getting things off my chest. Most of my friends aren't really people who listen very much. Talk, yes, but not listen... actually, most people I know prefer talking rather than listening...

I don't think that's right. I've mostly always been in a business where I have to listen to other people's views, and then convince them in some degree to see things my way. Now, that's not the same as being a counselor, but the operative fact was that I was being paid to listen. It's hard to think of a time when I didn't give a shit about who was talking. Just because the obligation is professional doesn't mean it's not real.

I wonder if your objection is simply a rationalization so you don't have take their advice?

 

[silverwhisper]

mac, get the fuck away from the two of them, probably forever.

there's obviously something going on with her but after the way she's treated you, that's her problem and his: not yours. to fuck with 'em both.

incidentally, this is called "cutting your losses".



once you've done that: mac, you gotta have a long, hard look at yourself. you gotta figure out who you are--and part of that involves understanding what your value is. it's high, mac. but until you see that for yourself, you're always gonna be left wondering how to respond to things like this.

because i like you dude, but if you keep on going this way, you're gonna run the risk of becoming a whiny little bitch.

ed

 

[fuckmeat]

to be quite honest, I haven't been to counceling since my elementary school told my mother I should. I've never been "comfortable" enough around therapists to actually express myself. I'd usually feel like they were phony and didn't really care about my problems. I mean, if I weren't paying them, we'll agree they wouldn't give 2 shits about me.

I really think you should see what's available to you and give counselling a shot.

Ok, truth time? My Mistress is terminally ill. I am caring for her and dealing with what has been described as 'anticipatory grief.' I am already grieving because I know she will die and so I don't always make the most of the time we have, because I'm too upset about the times we won't have. The counsellor I've been seeing is a charity worker who earns next to nothing and he is an absolutely wonderful person who has a real vocation. To assume a counsellor won't give a crap because you're not the one paying them is a sweeping generalisation that's unjust to counsellors who really do care about people.

It may not work out or do a great deal for you. You may not connect with whoever you see. But I think you should try it on for size at least. Nobody is going to force you to go twice. You lack perspective where this girl is concerned and self esteem where you yourself are concerned. I think all you really need is someone to nudge you in the right direction. You already know you need to change your current path.

Is she agonising over you like this? Is she fuck. This girl is not worth your time. I do not care how hot she is. You have already said you have overlooked her character flaws because you fancy her. Do you really aspire to be the pussywhipped bitch her current guy is? Why the hell would you? I will never cease to be amazed by how stupid guys can get over a porn star body. She's a bitch and silly, infatuated boys like you let her get away with being a bitch. One day, she'll be a fully fledged pain in the ass but FFS, you do not want to be her bitchwhipped doormat when that day comes.

And silverwhisper has a point. In a world where so many have so little and so many worse things can happen to you, although this is a bad situation, you do need to get perspective and stop sweating over this quite so much. You have your life, your studies, your health and presumably, enough money for a decent quality of life.

One day, you will look back and laugh at this. Your life can be so much more than this.

 

[Cathleen]

mac, get the fuck away from the two of them, probably forever.

there's obviously something going on with her but after the way she's treated you, that's her problem and his: not yours. to fuck with 'em both.

incidentally, this is called "cutting your losses".



once you've done that: mac, you gotta have a long, hard look at yourself. you gotta figure out who you are--and part of that involves understanding what your value is. it's high, mac. but until you see that for yourself, you're always gonna be left wondering how to respond to things like this.

because i like you dude, but if you keep on going this way, you're gonna run the risk of becoming a whiny little bitch.

ed

Yep. Mac what she did was beyond crappy. Don't go back for more!

Stop obsessing about everything. The thread about the woman at work was almost stunning with regard to how you can take normal everyday things between people/co-workers/friends and putting each word, each letter under a microscope. Sometimes people just like each other, they click, it's not unusual. Let your mind relax.

Often I use the phrase "Sometimes a flat tire is just a flat tire." Because not everything is divine intervention, not a signal that 'so and so' wants you; it might be she called you because the first or second person she called couldn't help her out.

Also, you know you have no attraction to her sexually, that's great, I bet there are lots or people that are not attracted to you sexually, not attracted to me sexually -- often those people are called friends. It's easy for me to say these things because I'm a few decades older and I know things might seem difficult from your view but trust that time changes our views. (Psst, it gets better and better!)

Ed's right, shake out your head and stop reading into actions that are normal everyday things.

 

[Mac98]

I don't think that's right. I've mostly always been in a business where I have to listen to other people's views, and then convince them in some degree to see things my way. Now, that's not the same as being a counselor, but the operative fact was that I was being paid to listen. It's hard to think of a time when I didn't give a shit about who was talking. Just because the obligation is professional doesn't mean it's not real.

I wonder if your objection is simply a rationalization so you don't have take their advice?

No, it's not because I don't trust a therapist's advice. It's because I've been to 3 different therapists in my life, I've been around psychiatrists for most of my teen years (I was put in the psychiatric ward at the hospital for a year when they thought I was faking my stomach pains... turns out I wasn't). Perhaps those bad experiences are what makes me so reluctant to go see one, I don't know. I have a hard time trusting people. The proof: It took me 5 years to admit to ANYONE that I had a thing for this girl (and I admitted this to a bunch of strangers who have never seen me and me them). So trusting a complete stranger while talking about my deepest thoughts and feelings.

mac, get the fuck away from the two of them, probably forever.

there's obviously something going on with her but after the way she's treated you, that's her problem and his: not yours. to fuck with 'em both.

incidentally, this is called "cutting your losses".

once you've done that: mac, you gotta have a long, hard look at yourself. you gotta figure out who you are--and part of that involves understanding what your value is. it's high, mac. but until you see that for yourself, you're always gonna be left wondering how to respond to things like this.

because i like you dude, but if you keep on going this way, you're gonna run the risk of becoming a whiny little bitch.

ed

I've been taking a long hard look at myself for the past couple of years. As for being a whiny little bitch, you'd be surprised at how little I complain IRL. I just use literotica as a way of getting things off my chest because I know for a fact people here (at least on HT, that is) are nice, approachable people. Sorry if I come off like a whino, I don't mean to.

I'd also like to add that I admit all this doesn't make my best friend sound too swell, but he's really a good guy. He means well. But you're right, I actually don't see her much. It was a fluke event. Definately not interested in being around her for now anyways... unless it's to rip her into pieces (verbally, of course, I'm ALL against violence towards children or women)

I really think you should see what's available to you and give counselling a shot.

Ok, truth time? My Mistress is terminally ill. I am caring for her and dealing with what has been described as 'anticipatory grief.' I am already grieving because I know she will die and so I don't always make the most of the time we have, because I'm too upset about the times we won't have. The counsellor I've been seeing is a charity worker who earns next to nothing and he is an absolutely wonderful person who has a real vocation. To assume a counsellor won't give a crap because you're not the one paying them is a sweeping generalisation that's unjust to counsellors who really do care about people.

It may not work out or do a great deal for you. You may not connect with whoever you see. But I think you should try it on for size at least. Nobody is going to force you to go twice. You lack perspective where this girl is concerned and self esteem where you yourself are concerned. I think all you really need is someone to nudge you in the right direction. You already know you need to change your current path.

Is she agonising over you like this? Is she fuck. This girl is not worth your time. I do not care how hot she is. You have already said you have overlooked her character flaws because you fancy her. Do you really aspire to be the pussywhipped bitch her current guy is? Why the hell would you? I will never cease to be amazed by how stupid guys can get over a porn star body. She's a bitch and silly, infatuated boys like you let her get away with being a bitch. One day, she'll be a fully fledged pain in the ass but FFS, you do not want to be her bitchwhipped doormat when that day comes.

And silverwhisper has a point. In a world where so many have so little and so many worse things can happen to you, although this is a bad situation, you do need to get perspective and stop sweating over this quite so much. You have your life, your studies, your health and presumably, enough money for a decent quality of life.

One day, you will look back and laugh at this. Your life can be so much more than this.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If it's any consolation, I don't at all think of this as the shittiest situation ever. I myself have been through way tougher times in my life and don't take very much for granted. That being said, reality is I'm still having a tough time understand what the hell just happened in the past few days and where my mind is situated in all this now. Talking about it with all of you helps a lot.

Also, I'm not saying I've come out looking like einstein through all this. But love makes people do crazy things. Heck, Vincent Van Gogh cut off his ear! I understand what you're saying and in theory I agree... in practice... that's another story, I'm afraid.

Yep. Mac what she did was beyond crappy. Don't go back for more!

Stop obsessing about everything. The thread about the woman at work was almost stunning with regard to how you can take normal everyday things between people/co-workers/friends and putting each word, each letter under a microscope. Sometimes people just like each other, they click, it's not unusual. Let your mind relax.

Often I use the phrase "Sometimes a flat tire is just a flat tire." Because not everything is divine intervention, not a signal that 'so and so' wants you; it might be she called you because the first or second person she called couldn't help her out.

Also, you know you have no attraction to her sexually, that's great, I bet there are lots or people that are not attracted to you sexually, not attracted to me sexually -- often those people are called friends. It's easy for me to say these things because I'm a few decades older and I know things might seem difficult from your view but trust that time changes our views. (Psst, it gets better and better!)

Ed's right, shake out your head and stop reading into actions that are normal everyday things.

My tendency to overthink and overanalyze things isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. I'm aware of it and do see it as a flaw or con... But fuck, I can't help it! I should appologize to myself for being so obsessive compulsive when it comes to dissecting every minor detail...

 

[gloriann]

One of the best things I was ever told, and one of the hardest pills to swallow, was that I was unapproachable. It took some time and some self-examination, but I was able to become... approachable. And able to let go of some excuses I used. And happier.

 

[Mac98]

I did say she wasn't all that wrong. I do try, but I'm generally shy and won't approach people myself. Especially not girls. I usually let them come to me, which may explain my "non-approachability". I'm not denying any of it and I'm not mad that I am the way I am. Sure, I'd like to change, but what pisses me off the most is the way she said it, the fact that SHE said (which just makes it sting even more) and that people would be shallow enough to feel that because I don't fit, esthetically, into the "norms" of my generation, that I'm instantly not interesting. Maybe it's just a phase and people mature out of it, maybe it's me, or maybe it's just the way things are.

Yeah, I have work to do on myself... heck, don't we all?

 

[Prufrockhard]

Hey Mac,
Us shy guys often put up the "stay away" barriers. Self protection in my case. Maybe yours too. I was destroyed by a GF in my early years. I sealed myself up to not get hurt again. I would not risk love. Older now, looking back, I see what's going on with you. I teach adults. Therfore, often function as a defacto thearapist. I have some training.
You've received some good advice above, but the metacognative you will not change much. The face you put on to meet the faces that you meet can be anything you want however. I can tell you this: nothing in this world can give you more self confidence than a good woman and nothing can destroy the YOU faster than a mean spirited, confused, insecure, meddling woman. (period)
Time washes clean, love's wounds unseen....(Linda Ronstadt 1972.)
I could go on about me being a recovering rock and roll star and tell you access to women does not help. Someone said above, the right woman will meet you. Even though you wish to remain safe, I think you'll be open when it happens. Guys like us, Ive known several, also settle later in life, have fewer sexual partners, and discovered romance first in long conversations...then sex.
You'll be alright!

 

[goldenass]

Just a few thoughts, which I hope can help. I needed to do therapy myself at a critical juncture many years ago - broken hearted with quite a few problems to work through. I had a few false starts with therapists too (not quite as intensively perhaps as your experience). Then I finally found someone who could help me. In retrospect, I realize he did not give me a lot of advice. What helped me was that he was the most extraordinary listener I ever met. Some people can do this, listen in a constructive, accepting way that truly helps gets things back on track. I would not claim that is easy to find such a professional, someone who is very skilled and actually cares. Such a person can be very worth finding though. Improved my life greatly.

Respectfully, it seems to me that fuckmeat and a few others on here are giving wise advice. Just seems like you are really hurting. Would be nice to see that stop for you and turn around.

Take care

 

[Mac98]

Hey Mac,
Us shy guys often put up the "stay away" barriers. Self protection in my case. Maybe yours too. I was destroyed by a GF in my early years. I sealed myself up to not get hurt again. I would not risk love. Older now, looking back, I see what's going on with you. I teach adults. Therfore, often function as a defacto thearapist. I have some training.
You've received some good advice above, but the metacognative you will not change much. The face you put on to meet the faces that you meet can be anything you want however. I can tell you this: nothing in this world can give you more self confidence than a good woman and nothing can destroy the YOU faster than a mean spirited, confused, insecure, meddling woman. (period)
Time washes clean, love's wounds unseen....(Linda Ronstadt 1972.)
I could go on about me being a recovering rock and roll star and tell you access to women does not help. Someone said above, the right woman will meet you. Even though you wish to remain safe, I think you'll be open when it happens. Guys like us, Ive known several, also settle later in life, have fewer sexual partners, and discovered romance first in long conversations...then sex.
You'll be alright!

Thanks! That's some great optimistic advice. I don't doubt I'll meet Ms. Right someday... I don't know how or when, but I trust life enough that I won't become a parrallel to the 40 year old virgin. I don't think I'm that repulsive...

Just a few thoughts, which I hope can help. I needed to do therapy myself at a critical juncture many years ago - broken hearted with quite a few problems to work through. I had a few false starts with therapists too (not quite as intensively perhaps as your experience). Then I finally found someone who could help me. In retrospect, I realize he did not give me a lot of advice. What helped me was that he was the most extraordinary listener I ever met. Some people can do this, listen in a constructive, accepting way that truly helps gets things back on track. I would not claim that is easy to find such a professional, someone who is very skilled and actually cares. Such a person can be very worth finding though. Improved my life greatly.

Respectfully, it seems to me that fuckmeat and a few others on here are giving wise advice. Just seems like you are really hurting. Would be nice to see that stop for you and turn around.

Take care

My best friend (who dated this girl in question) is the closest I have to a listener and I'd say I spend 95% of the time listening to HIS stories... which, don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing. But everytime I have something to say, it always seems like he's not interested.. or maybe it's because I have trouble expressing myself. Also, he's not really the right person to talk to about all this, given that he's a little too involved, you know. But the ideal for me would be to have a friend that's ready to listen. The problem is: Most is not all of my friends are more of talkers than they are listeners. Maybe a therapist would be an idea, I'm just not sure I'm over the animosity I have towards therapists in general.

 

[satindesire]

The problem is: Most is not all of my friends are more of talkers than they are listeners. Maybe a therapist would be an idea, I'm just not sure I'm over the animosity I have towards therapists in general.

One of the best ways to get over trust issues with a certain profession, is to seek out a member of that profession that you like talking with.

 

[Mac98]

One of the best ways to get over trust issues with a certain profession, is to seek out a member of that profession that you like talking with.

Ya, but when every person you meet from that profession seems untrustworthy, if you will, then it sorta' starts to become redundant and useless. Maybe I SHOULD start seeking therapy, but it's hard when you have trust issues with therapists in the first place.

But yeah, I know... I'll definately think about it.

 

[coastal-boy]

Ya, but when every person you meet from that profession seems untrustworthy, if you will, then it sorta' starts to become redundant and useless. Maybe I SHOULD start seeking therapy, but it's hard when you have trust issues with therapists in the first place.

But yeah, I know... I'll definately think about it.

argue for your limitations and so they shall be yours (or) If you say it often enough, it will become your reality even if it isn't real. Instead of looking for a chick...try looking for a good wingman.