Defining Vanilla, and that which isn't...

[Technodivinitas]

In reaction to the thread about a vanilla submissive, (?), I'd like to know how the various and sundry (I've always wanted to be a sundry...) folks here at the Lit define the concept "Vanilla".

To me, Vanilla isn't straight missionary sex, in the dark, exclusively for the purpose of procreation, and satisfying a Husband's animal needs. It's what's acceptable. Nowdays, gay can certainly be vanilla, at least in the major metropolitan areas. Vanilla is sex between equals. Vanilla sex is egalitarian, and politically correct.

What it isn't, to me, is any kink, or any fetish, from mild sensation-play, (a bowl of ice, a mink bedspread, etc...) to power-exchange, to roleplay, and on out the concept spins.

To me, if you are even a little kinky, in any way at all, you are not vanilla, (although I might refer to you as French Vanilla, if you just have a taste for silk scarves and blindfolds, once in a blue moon...)

I get the feeling that there are other BDSM peoples who feel if it's not out here in our odd menagerie, then it might be kink, but it's still vanilla... which to me is a complete paradox.

Input?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

<snip>I get the feeling that there are other BDSM peoples who feel if it's not out here in our odd menagerie, then it might be kink, but it's still vanilla... which to me is a complete paradox.

Input?

I think we may now need three categories: vanilla, kink (not vanilla, but not BDSM), and BDSM. Let's not get into the sub-categories - gay, threesomes, swingers, etc., etc., etc. We could fill a whole forum just with all the possible permutations!

 

[Technodivinitas]

I am soooooooo generally broad-spectrum kinky... and I tend to see only the faintest defining-lines between one fetish and another. Might be because I actively collect fetishes & perversions, (I go seeking them, and try very hard to grasp the turn-ons of them, even if they don't particularly spin my wheels...) and so many of them seem like so MUCH fun! If Vanilla is altogether non-kinky, then I'm a right royal bag of Bernie Bott's EVERY flavour beans!

 

[bluntforcemama]

Vanilla is sex between equals. Vanilla sex is egalitarian, and politically correct.

To me, if you are even a little kinky, in any way at all, you are not vanilla, (although I might refer to you as French Vanilla, if you just have a taste for silk scarves and blindfolds, once in a blue moon...)

I agree for the most part with your scrumptious description, and even had to laugh. I used to work for a coffee shop in college. In order to make the flavor French Vanilla, you had to add hazlenut flavoring. Perhaps "kinky" should just be called hazlenut.

There are some people out there who are extremely vanilla: maybe even the DQ kind of soft-serve, but they seem rare to me. Almost every person I know has some sort of fetish or kink that drives them wild. I don't think that vanilla sex is always between equals. Often times, such as in Puritan society, the female was submissive to her mate, though I'm sure that their views of sex were quite boring and very flavorless.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Puritans had the lock on vanilla sex. Where do you think all those bdsm ideas came from? Some bored Pilgrim decided to stick his wife in the stockade and take her from behind, perhaps chanting "The Lord is my shepherd...." the whole time! lol I know the Victorian times were flush with birchings, lesbians, and group sex. Give a group of people enough time and the kink will come out naturally.

 

[FungiUg]

Firstly I don't like the word "vanilla"... it all comes back to the "them versus us" attitude that I hate. Even "normal" I have my issues with -- I mean, what IS normal?

Anyway, whatever the definition, I very much doubt it includes gay or lesbian sex. Not yet. Not by a long shot. Sure, this is becoming the age of the "Metrosexual", but we're not there yet.

I've heard swingers use the word "vanilla" to refer to people who don't swing. I've heard BDSM people use it to refer to non-BDSM folk. And I have heard gay men use it to refer to straight people.

So... what definition emcompasses all of that?

Personally, I use non-BDSM or non-D/s: they are more descriptive and less prone to interpretation.

A submissive, even if she is not a masochist, would still fit into my category of D/s.

 

[Technodivinitas]

Re: Re: Defining Vanilla, and that which isn't...

Often times, such as in Puritan society, the female was submissive to her mate, though I'm sure that their views of sex were quite boring and very flavorless.

I agree w/crazy here- Vanilla? the "Puritans"? Talk about Power-exchange!

No- what I meant by "Between equals" was actually more like, supposedly equal, or something like that. I personally believe that D/s isn't a perversion, perse, but more simply an amplification of the dynamics which are between any people, just naturally. Every time you buy a lightbulb or bottle of carpet cleaner, you have a D/s dynamic- or even multiple dynamics. The woman with the cart who wants to get past you in the aisle- does she fluster and look at her feet while appologizing and saying 'excuse me' softly, or does she purse her lips imperiously and tap her foot with impatience as she gives you a hard stare and shoves you in the hip with her cart? And how do you interact in return? The young man behind the register- the one who has control momentarily over your money and your time? Does he know he has that power? Does he seem glib and amused that it's so?

The whole world is about that dynamic. If in the bedroom, a big-hearted husband lets his wife choose who gets to be on top, or if they take turns, and it's really not more than an hour (being generous) out of any given day for them... I'd call that vanilla. I'd call pretending to be happy that your woman (or your man) is in charge in the bedroom, or anywhere else, for the sake of "what people will think" vanilla.

Non-vanilla to me is also the openness of the mind, and the perpetual drive of curiousity to try things that are new or that are socially taboo.

 

[bluntforcemama]

Well, we all know that in our own minds we are right in our perceptions of the term vanilla as it refers to sexual preferences.

I should have clarified that I use the word "puritan" broadly, and not always in the sense of religious devotion. I use it as the definition of "opposed to sensual pleasures." I hope this makes my view a bit more acceptable.

 

[graceanne]

I guess I'd think of vanilla as sex where you are not willing to try anything out of the 'ordinary'. But I'd never really thought about it. I'm gonna have to think on this one . . . hmm.

 

[WriterDom]

We had flame wars over Vanilla when we introduced it to the general lit population. They took it as meaning we have better sex than they do.

So be careful.

A simple v might work.

 

[FungiUg]

But we DO have better sex than they do!

 

[Technodivinitas]

But we DO have better sex than they do!

Hear hear!
(And I think a lot more of it, too...)

 

[FungiUg]

Oh, I don't know about more... there are some sluts on the GB, that's for sure! For that matter, if you pop onto the GB, the amount of references to spanking is huge! Perhaps spanking is "vanilla" these days?

 

[Technodivinitas]

But WD has a strong, valid point- whenever a collective draws a line or uses a term which defines Them & Us, it lays the groundwork for negative interaction. Still, I'm pretty sure we're just trying to describe a line that those not like us drew long ago- we're just accepting it's reality. And by saying that there's almost no one who doesn't, on SOME level, fall into the Us category, we're also opening the door in that wall that lies between Us & Them.

Then again, I kinda like bein' a "perv". Pervert: to change in meaning, form, or intent- to twist or alter. I'm cool with that...

 

[FungiUg]

How about "bent"? I like being bent!

 

[Kajira Callista]

Nilla to me doesnt mean not "kinky"...everyone experiments, plays around with the out of the odinary things to spice up a relationship....to me nilla just means not extreme.

 

[Netzach]

1. Yes, you can be lesbian or gay and be vanilla. What else are the well-adjusted polo shirt wearing people who cringe at the idea of leather?

2. Mink bedspreads and fuzzy cuffs are still pretty vanilla. Spreader bars, latex hoods, and stomping on model cars for erotic fulfillment....not.

3. Vanilla is what would not get you fired, as long as you're not doing it with someone who's not your spouse if you're in public office.

4. Non-vanilla usually would get you fired if it came to light.

 

[InnerDarkness]

I just keep coming back to the thread and never posting, because this is what I keep thinking...

Vanilla....my husband
Not vanilla....me

Sorry...I know that doesn't help anyone else!

HA!

 

[serijules]

Hmm, I've never really had a problem with the word vanilla. How is it any different than us being called "kinky" or "perverted" or "lifestylers" or whatever? Normal wouldn't fit for people not interested in BDSM because we are ALL normal. There needs to be some word for clarities sake, why not vanilla? It works *shrugs*

I classify anyone not admittedly interested in some aspect of BDSM to be vanilla. (in other words, if you like to have your butt smacked during sex but are appalled at the thought of being into "spanking" than you are still vanilla in my world.)

 

[shyly curious]

1) There are those who "never" think about kinky sex.

2) There are those who once in a great while think briefly about kinky sex, but never do it.

3) There are those who think about it and actually try something new every now and then.

4) There are those who regularly have kinky sex and love it.

(kinky sex defined as that which you're pretty sure would make your neighbors blush and stammer and walk away if you told them about it.)

#1, 2, 3, would most likely be vanilla in my opinion. #4 is not vanilla.

imho

 

[incubus'_sub]

For all of the many many years that I was unaware that there were names/labels for the way I am, I still made a distinction between vanilla & what I needed. I just called it soft sex. That meant affectionate, kissy, cuddly, normal style making love. In fact I often said to my former husband that perhaps he was missing out on that as I was never interested or turned on by it no matter how hard he tried.

I rather like "bent" too and Incubus described my "twistibility" the other day. He's a scientist, he's allowed to make up new words.

 

[Technodivinitas]

How about "bent"? I like being bent!

Er... from reading your caveman thread, I'd say you prefer to be the bender, FU. Also from reading your caveman thread, I'd say I wouldn't entirely mind being bent in your presence myself! *L*

 

[Technodivinitas]

2. Mink bedspreads and fuzzy cuffs are still pretty vanilla. Spreader bars, latex hoods, and stomping on model cars for erotic fulfillment....not.

Model cars...? Okay. Fetish I'm not familiar with there, and that is a serious rarity. If you aren't being colorfully sarcastic with that, I deeply need for you to enlighten me, 'cause that one needs to be in the collection!

 

[Technodivinitas]

I classify anyone not admittedly interested in some aspect of BDSM to be vanilla. (in other words, if you like to have your butt smacked during sex but are appalled at the thought of being into "spanking" than you are still vanilla in my world.)

What if you get aroused by having slugs crawl on/about/through your genitals/erogenous zones? Would that be vanilla? Or if you're a friend of Squeekypony, and dig inflatable animals?

 

[esclave_PP]

Re: Re: Defining Vanilla, and that which isn't...

Originally posted by Myst
I agree for the most part with your scrumptious description, and even had to laugh. I used to work for a coffee shop in college. In order to make the flavor French Vanilla, you had to add hazlenut flavoring. Perhaps "kinky" should just be called hazlenut.

There are some people out there who are extremely vanilla: maybe even the DQ kind of soft-serve, but they seem rare to me. Almost every person I know has some sort of fetish or kink that drives them wild. I don't think that vanilla sex is always between equals. Often times, such as in Puritan society, the female was submissive to her mate, though I'm sure that their views of sex were quite boring and very flavorless.

Myst very well said.

I think that anything that is considered "mainstream" would be vanilla. Anything beyond that, "kinky" and then otherwise. Master usually defines what he calls "regular sex" as vanilla, but not sure how one defines "regular sex" since that seems so broad a definition.