Defining Love

[Cathleen]

Just to clarify: the song is sung in the movie, not played on the piano. Some Chopin and Beethoven pieces had important parts in the movie.

Oh I have a feeling I will want the soundtrack to this one if they put it out. I love Chopin and Beethoven. This is a must see I think. Thanks Yank.

 

[midwestyankee]

Oh I have a feeling I will want the soundtrack to this one if they put it out. I love Chopin and Beethoven. This is a must see I think. Thanks Yank.

It's a quiet and peaceful sound track - and I think virtually every movie's sound track gets released as an album these days.

One thing that struck me about the movie was that its portrayal of love was so well grounded in actions rather than feelings. Another was that both lovers were honest with each other from the beginning - and accepted each other despite significant differences in their lives. The last was the amount of fortitude and patience that Noah needed - and found - in order to love Ally.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
It's a quiet and peaceful sound track - and I think virtually every movie's sound track gets released as an album these days.

One thing that struck me about the movie was that its portrayal of love was so well grounded in actions rather than feelings. Another was that both lovers were honest with each other from the beginning - and accepted each other despite significant differences in their lives. The last was the amount of fortitude and patience that Noah needed - and found - in order to love Ally.

I agree...but it almost hurt to see Noah's joy when Ally 'came back'...for the 5 minutes ...and then his anquish when she left him again.

 

[midwestyankee]

I agree...but it almost hurt to see Noah's joy when Ally 'came back'...for the 5 minutes ...and then his anquish when she left him again.

I won't give away any more of the movie, but I will say that some of the plot points regarding her Alzheimer's disease were not realistic and they did bother me.

The scene you mentioned, WW, is one that makes me think Garner could get some recognition for this role.

And now, back to our regular programming. Have you ever felt a love so intense and powerful that you would be willing to wait years for it to become fully realized?

 

[Wyldfire]

A brief change a topic. Is it love ta take back someone who's abandoned ya fer someone else? Is it Love ta wanna jump right back inta his arms? Is it Love ta abandon someone fer their own good? Ta leave um cause a th amount a unsurety there was fer th abandoned?

 

[midwestyankee]

A brief change a topic. Is it love ta take back someone who's abandoned ya fer someone else? Is it Love ta wanna jump right back inta his arms? Is it Love ta abandon someone fer their own good? Ta leave um cause a th amount a unsurety there was fer th abandoned?

I don't think I'm the best qualified person around to answer your questions, but I am happy to get the discussion started.

On the surface, it's very easy to say that taking back someone who left you is a self-centered act and not an act of love. But I have seen this happen from a deep and abiding love so I won't jump to any conclusions.

It would be easy to say that wanting to jump back into someone's arms is motivated by something other than love. But only the jumper knows for sure.

To abandon someone for his or her own good - could this be an act of love? I don't like the word "abandon" because it speaks of leaving someone defenseless. That does not sound like love to me. But if you're asking if it could be an act of love to break off with someone because you know in your heart that it's the best thing for that other person, then yes I think it could be.

It could be love to do all of these things you mentioned, or it might not be. To know for sure, you'd have to look very closely into the person's heart to see what's there.

However...

Leaving someone because there is too much uncertainty does not sound like an act of love. It sounds like your heart telling you of danger that your mind has not noticed yet.

These are just my humble thoughts. I'm sure others will have wise things to add as well.

 

[tonitits]

bump

 

[~Dream~]

I don't think I'm the best qualified person around to answer your questions, but I am happy to get the discussion started.

On the surface, it's very easy to say that taking back someone who left you is a self-centered act and not an act of love. But I have seen this happen from a deep and abiding love so I won't jump to any conclusions.

It would be easy to say that wanting to jump back into someone's arms is motivated by something other than love. But only the jumper knows for sure.

To abandon someone for his or her own good - could this be an act of love? I don't like the word "abandon" because it speaks of leaving someone defenseless. That does not sound like love to me. But if you're asking if it could be an act of love to break off with someone because you know in your heart that it's the best thing for that other person, then yes I think it could be.

It could be love to do all of these things you mentioned, or it might not be. To know for sure, you'd have to look very closely into the person's heart to see what's there.

However...

Leaving someone because there is too much uncertainty does not sound like an act of love. It sounds like your heart telling you of danger that your mind has not noticed yet.

These are just my humble thoughts. I'm sure others will have wise things to add as well.

I pretty much agree with all yankee has said and will add this ..leaving someone after you have professed love for them is WRONG ..esp IF you were playing emotional head and or mind games with them...to me those kind of ppl need to be strung up by their virtual balls'lol

If ya leave because you Tell them 1st ,I am sorry this just isnt working out for me"" ..thats a different story ..but to string a man or woman along and not have ANY regards to what your LIES are doing to them just isnt right...I dont condone ,Nor will I ever defend THAT kind of behaviour...some ppl Damsel ARE just way more 'sensitive and CARING than others ..thats a FACT....so yes I can also still understand taking someone back who left you ...however ONLy If it was and felt GOOD to do so ..FOR YOU ..cause in My eyes ..THEY are in the wrong ..

I dont understand the leaving another for their own Good crap at all...who are WE to Judge our partners?? Maybe we need to ASK THEM what THEY THINK?..On the other hand staying in a relationship that just doesnt feel good or right and is making 1 or both ppl miserable is Not Good either ...being FALSE= Not Love...

just my honest opinion..from someone who cares and has been there ..done that and got the damn t-shirt lol

 

[Cathleen]

And now, back to our regular programming. Have you ever felt a love so intense and powerful that you would be willing to wait years for it to become fully realized?

I have - or I think I have. I keep thinking I've never been in love ~ but if what I feel for this person is love then ......

This man is someone I grew up with and we dated as young adults - in college and then for a while after. However, there was a separation due to career choices and our relationship was put on a kind of hold - we both dated others or were free to. He started dating a woman and soon after she became pregnant. I was devastated inside. They married and still are married.

We talk with one another sometimes and have said that its hard to talk to each other because of the bittersweetness of it all. I will always love him and he has said the same; we have seen each other on occassion - family gatherings and such - its hard for me. Its a sadness I try not to feel but do.

I remember long ago being so selfish that I would wish for their marriage to end so we could be together. I've never spoken those words out loud - and can't even do it right now - but I think them still sometimes. I wonder what will happen when their kids are grown - will they finally feel as though they've done their "duty"? I know some of his feelings about his marriage but also ask him not to tell me much - its not right for me.

I know there is risk and I know you've got to put yourself out there for love to happen and quite honestly I know I've used my love for him to hide behind so I don't have to feel that pain again. I have had other relationships but I've never felt the same depth as I do for him and yet I still don't know if its really love. Its never been really tested - does love have to be tested?

 

[midwestyankee]

I have - or I think I have. I keep thinking I've never been in love ~ but if what I feel for this person is love then ......

This man is someone I grew up with and we dated as young adults - in college and then for a while after. However, there was a separation due to career choices and our relationship was put on a kind of hold - we both dated others or were free to. He started dating a woman and soon after she became pregnant. I was devastated inside. They married and still are married.

We talk with one another sometimes and have said that its hard to talk to each other because of the bittersweetness of it all. I will always love him and he has said the same; we have seen each other on occassion - family gatherings and such - its hard for me. Its a sadness I try not to feel but do.

I remember long ago being so selfish that I would wish for their marriage to end so we could be together. I've never spoken those words out loud - and can't even do it right now - but I think them still sometimes. I wonder what will happen when their kids are grown - will they finally feel as though they've done their "duty"? I know some of his feelings about his marriage but also ask him not to tell me much - its not right for me.

I know there is risk and I know you've got to put yourself out there for love to happen and quite honestly I know I've used my love for him to hide behind so I don't have to feel that pain again. I have had other relationships but I've never felt the same depth as I do for him and yet I still don't know if its really love. Its never been really tested - does love have to be tested?

Cate, in all honesty I've been suppressing smartass lines about multiple choice and true/false all afternoon. I know....bad yankee, bad yankee.

Now let's take this seriously. IMHO love does not exist unless it has been tested in the real world, in real time. I liken your relationship here to a long-distance, online relationship where the partners talk in one medium or another but do not meet. There they form the basis for love, but do not create love itself. To form the true love, they must meet and discover each other in real time. Otherwise, what they have is a complex series of emotional experiences that are not fully grounded in reality.

I know I'm not saying this very clearly. On the other hand, GiveawayGirl made this point a few months ago and did so more elegantly than I am tonight.

In your case, the two of you have grown and changed considerably since you were dating. You are no longer the same people really. And while it appears you both still have strong feelings for each other, you will not know the true strength of those feelings - whether they can hold up to the fire of day-to-day experience - until you once again have a real time, in-person relationship.

This must be rather difficult for you.

 

[Cathleen]

Cate, in all honesty I've been suppressing smartass lines about multiple choice and true/false all afternoon. I know....bad yankee, bad yankee.

Now let's take this seriously. IMHO love does not exist unless it has been tested in the real world, in real time. I liken your relationship here to a long-distance, online relationship where the partners talk in one medium or another but do not meet. There they form the basis for love, but do not create love itself. To form the true love, they must meet and discover each other in real time. Otherwise, what they have is a complex series of emotional experiences that are not fully grounded in reality.

I know I'm not saying this very clearly. On the other hand, GiveawayGirl made this point a few months ago and did so more elegantly than I am tonight.

In your case, the two of you have grown and changed considerably since you were dating. You are no longer the same people really. And while it appears you both still have strong feelings for each other, you will not know the true strength of those feelings - whether they can hold up to the fire of day-to-day experience - until you once again have a real time, in-person relationship.

This must be rather difficult for you.

I know Yank, we may never find out either. *heavy sigh*

 

[midwestyankee]

I know Yank, we may never find out either. *heavy sigh*

One possibility to keep in mind is that the inability to have something - or someone - adds precious power and value to that which is unavailable. I'm sure you've considered this, but I suspect it explains a good bit of the strength of some unattainable loves.

 

[Cathleen]

One possibility to keep in mind is that the inability to have something - or someone - adds precious power and value to that which is unavailable. I'm sure you've considered this, but I suspect it explains a good bit of the strength of some unattainable loves.

I think I understand that ~ and yes, as a yonger person I did hold onto it with gripping hands. Today I no longer do that - I have to live my life as it is today.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think I understand that ~ and yes, as a yonger person I did hold onto it with gripping hands. Today I no longer do that - I have to live my life as it is today.

To live one's life as it is today - rather than how it was yesterday - is a fine thing.

But what if we tried living our lives as if tomorrow was already here? What difference would that make?

 

[Cathleen]

To live one's life as it is today - rather than how it was yesterday - is a fine thing.

But what if we tried living our lives as if tomorrow was already here? What difference would that make?

Yank I will have to get back to you on that - once I figure it out! BBL

 

[shell seeker2]

How do you know you're in love? My heart beats faster when I talk to HIM, when He gives me a kiss hello, when we don't have to say a word and know what the other wants to say. I love the smell of HIM on my pillow and hug it until I see HIM again.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
To live one's life as it is today - rather than how it was yesterday - is a fine thing.

But what if we tried living our lives as if tomorrow was already here? What difference would that make?

You would miss the pleasures today brings....if you were ONLY focused on the future...wouldn't you?

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by shell seeker2
How do you know you're in love? My heart beats faster when I talk to HIM, when He gives me a kiss hello, when we don't have to say a word and know what the other wants to say. I love the smell of HIM on my pillow and hug it until I see HIM again.

shell seeker welcome to this thread...and please don't be offended....I don't mean to minimize your love for him...but I can feel that for someone I don't 'love'...but care about....or maybe it's just different degrees of love? perhaps

 

[midwestyankee]

You would miss the pleasures today brings....if you were ONLY focused on the future...wouldn't you?

Let me see if I can remember exactly what was on my twisted little mind when I posed this question.

Cate had just posted that she preferred to live life as it is today - rather than by dwelling much on the past. But her post was in the context of the possibility of re-engaging an old relationship. This made me wonder about how things might be different for us interally - psychologically, I suppose - if we lived today as if that re-engagement had already happened. How would we feel then about the person whose love we hoped to reengage in the future.

This is probably even less clear now than it was 10 minutes ago, right?

 

[midwestyankee]

How do you know you're in love? My heart beats faster when I talk to HIM, when He gives me a kiss hello, when we don't have to say a word and know what the other wants to say. I love the smell of HIM on my pillow and hug it until I see HIM again.

Welcome, shell seeker2.

How long have you known this man? Are you still in the first stages of getting to know and care about one another? I'm guessing this is the case, but before I put my foot in my mouth I thought I should ask. My own answer to your question would depend on knowing this.

 

[justthe2ofus43]

To live one's life as it is today - rather than how it was yesterday - is a fine thing.

But what if we tried living our lives as if tomorrow was already here? What difference would that make?

Heavy statement there ....i for one dont like looking back at yesterday and nobody knows what is to happen tomorrow especally in relationships .....to enjoy the most out of every day like there is no tomorrow is what i enjoy most out of our relationship .......enjoy the unexpected and eachothers company to the fullest each and every moment and day that we share ........

As to rekindle a relationship i for one dont believe that is very seldom possible ....something has to be wrong for a relationship not to work out and for 2 people not to get together and stay together ..... those wrong things might not show up right away again ,yet they are still there burried or hidden .Moving on and ahead not even looking can bring many surprises so ,i can vouch for that lol .I do however believe that with enough time a friendship can be holding up even if a relationship does not .

 

[midwestyankee]

Heavy statement there ....i for one dont like looking back at yesterday and nobody knows what is to happen tomorrow especally in relationships .....to enjoy the most out of every day like there is no tomorrow is what i enjoy most out of our relationship .......enjoy the unexpected and eachothers company to the fullest each and every moment and day that we share ........

As to rekindle a relationship i for one dont believe that is very seldom possible ....something has to be wrong for a relationship not to work out and for 2 people not to get together and stay together ..... those wrong things might not show up right away again ,yet they are still there burried or hidden .Moving on and ahead not even looking can bring many surprises so ,i can vouch for that lol .I do however believe that with enough time a friendship can be holding up even if a relationship does not .

True, we don't know what the future holds. But for someone who is in a relationship that promises to change dramatically in the future, I was wondering what the psychological impact would be to live as if that change had occurred. What would it do to how we live today if our dreams for tomorrow had already come true?

I suspect it would have been a rare relationship where two people could someday pick back up again where they left off. I saw a marvelous movie a year or so ago called Innocence, in which an older couple discover each other after having separated several decades earlier. Now single again, they reunite.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee

I suspect it would have been a rare relationship where two people could someday pick back up again where they left off. I saw a marvelous movie a year or so ago called Innocence, in which an older couple discover each other after having separated several decades earlier. Now single again, they reunite.

Actually a relative of mine did that....30 years after falling in love with a woman. He was married when they first met. She wasn't. They had a close but platonic relationship. She eventually offered him more or nothing. Choosing to honour his marriage vows, he was left with the 'nothing'. Thirty years later when he was available...he called her...rekindled the relationship (she too was single at the time)...were married within months and have been happily married for a few years now. It is possible. While I respect his decision to honour his marriage vows...I sometimes question if he 'lost' 30 years of bliss.

 

[midwestyankee]

Actually a relative of mine did that....30 years after falling in love with a woman. He was married when they first met. She wasn't. They had a close but platonic relationship. She eventually offered him more or nothing. Choosing to honour his marriage vows, he was left with the 'nothing'. Thirty years later when he was available...he called her...rekindled the relationship (she too was single at the time)...were married within months and have been happily married for a few years now. It is possible. While I respect his decision to honour his marriage vows...I sometimes question if he 'lost' 30 years of bliss.

Perhaps, but you also have to honor his courage to try to re-engage in the first place. And it's also possible that they weren't really quite right for each other 30 years ago and their experiences since then actually brought them closer to being perfectly suited for each other now.

I guess this just shows my bias to try to avoid feeling regrets.

Good for them, btw. This is a great story.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
Perhaps, but you also have to honor his courage to try to re-engage in the first place. And it's also possible that they weren't really quite right for each other 30 years ago and their experiences since then actually brought them closer to being perfectly suited for each other now.

I guess this just shows my bias to try to avoid feeling regrets.

Good for them, btw. This is a great story.

perhaps...he's never voiced regret...was just a question I had seeing how happy they are now...knowing he wasn't always...but yes it's very nice to watch them together and as you can guess from the 30 years...he's not a young man any more.