Death Camp?

Lasher

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Joined
Dec 18, 1999
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Anyone else seen this yet? I just caught this on bbc.com

'These are all executions'

Hundreds of bundles of bone in strips of military uniform have been found by British soldiers at an abandoned Iraqi military base on the outskirts of the town of al-Zubayr.

Most of the victims appear to have been executed by gunshots to the head.

Skulls, their teeth broken and missing, look out from plastic bags in unsealed hardboard coffins stacked five deep in a warehouse.

Some of the bags have split open, spilling bones and scraps of clothing onto the dirt floor.

Outside, in a courtyard, a brick wall riddled with bullets stands behind a foot-high tiled platform, with a drainage ditch running in between.


The soldiers think this bullet-riddled spot was a "shooting gallery"

It looks like "a purpose-built shooting gallery" says one British soldier.

Next to the courtyard, a building contains what look like cells with metal hooks hanging from racks on the ceiling - and a picture of Iraqi president Saddam Hussein.

Some of the paperwork suggests the "makeshift morgue" was operating in 1985.

Each coffin carries an Arabic inscription and the bags have been scrawled on with marker pens.

The first British soldier into the warehouse, Captain Jack Kemp, of the 3rd Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, said it contained more than 200 bags filled with "very old" human remains.

"It is certainly not from the recent conflict but it could be from the one before," the 40-year-old from Fraddam, near Newquay, Cornwall, added.

"We have placed it out of bounds to all personnel and will treat it as a mass grave.

"It's part of being at war - just another thing you have to deal with and get on with it.

"As the war goes on you expect to see everything."

A younger soldier studying the book of photographs said: "These are all executions. You can see the bullets - shots to the head."

The BBC's Ben Brown said local people had told him the remains were those of Iraqi soldiers killed in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, recently sent back from Iran.

But other reporters said items in the base, such as the cells and the "shooting gallery", suggested a far more sinister history.

There was also evidence that soldiers had lived at the base until recently, with new army shirts found still in their bags.

Some of the British soldiers believe they may have chanced upon a death camp.

"Isn't it important for Muslims to be properly buried?" one said. "It's like a deliberate disrespect.

"Whoever these people were, they weren't very important to the people who did this."
 
i saw it ... really disturbing ... i stick by my views on the war ... i think the reasons we were told we were going were wrong but a lot of good hopefully will come out of us doing it if it's handled correctly

hopefully it will be the end of a regime that did things like this
 
Hell, you should seen the carnage outside Huntsville when GW was governor.
 
Then there's this version on Al Jazeera's english language website:

Remains of 200 killed in Iran-Iraq war found near Basra

Remains of 200 killed in Iran-Iraq war found near Basra

Forensic experts are investigating the remains of up to 200 people found by British forces in a rundown military complex on Saturday near Iraq’s second largest city Basra.

"They discovered some bodies in a barracks between Basra and Az Zubair," a British military spokeswoman at Central Command headquarters in Qatar said.

Television footage showed dozens of wooden coffins, bones in plastic bags and pieces of military uniform as well as photographs of slain men most of which appeared to have gunshot wounds to the head. It was not clear whether the pictures had anything to do with the corpses.

A British military spokesman on the scene was quoted as saying the bodies – which were described as desiccated - might be from a previous war since they were quite old.

Al Jazeera television quoted an unnamed Iraqi official in Basra as saying the remains were those of Iraqi soldiers killed in the 1980-1988 war with Iran and recently repatriated by Tehran.

The official said the start of the Anglo-American war on Iraq prevented officials from returning the bodies to their families.

Iran and Iraq still exchange prisoners and bodies even though the war ended 15 years ago and the last prisoner swap took place on March 19 – a day before the start of the current war. --- Al Jazeera with agencies
----------------------------------------

You gotta love it. Their only quote from the British is:

A British military spokesman on the scene was quoted as saying the bodies – which were described as desiccated - might be from a previous war since they were quite old.
 
The Baathists are quite brutal. Their regime has been described as "Stalinesque," which quite nicely captures the total disregard for human life and decency that the regime exemplifies.
 
But, but, but....

Saddam is just a poor misunderstood Iraqi! If we had just left him alone he would have stuck to his peaceful ways.

What? You say "what about the fact that he was trying to send a ship into Haifa with a nuclear bomb on it?", "what about the fact that he was going to do the same thing with a truck (I forget the destination off-hand)?" Just pranks - boys will be boys.

What about the 5000 Iranian soldiers he killed with chemical weapons? What about the 50,000 Kurds (mean, women and children) he murdered with chemical weapons? Oh, that was ten years ago - he wouldn't dream of doing it again.

Remember the claims he was supporting Al Qaeda and their denials? Just unsupported accusations right? Pay no attention to the fact that the US has found the Al Qaeda terrorist camps in Northern Iraq. Just a coincidence.

Also ignore the fact that the Saddam regime has lied straight through about everything since the war started - to the point of denying the US military presence in Bahgdad while the tanks roll through the streets. They wouldn't lie about having WMDs - would they?

Would they? :confused:


:rolleyes:
 
The very fact that there was no effort at all to hide the remains in that ware-house gives an indication that Saddam and his regime care nothing for human dignity .

In the report I saw there were civilians included - some badly mutilated,with faces burned off - there were pictures found documenting the progress of torture and ID cards .
 
]ooooo(chained) said:
Remember the remains in the Polish forest?

The Poles killed by the Soviets, or the Poles killed by the Germans?
 
The Heretic said:
<snip>

Remember the claims he was supporting Al Qaeda and their denials? Just unsupported accusations right? Pay no attention to the fact that the US has found the Al Qaeda terrorist camps in Northern Iraq. Just a coincidence. <snip>

I've got nothing good to say about Saddam.

I think he can be condemned for what he has actually done.

Do you know something I missed in regard to an Al Q'uieda-Saddam connection? :confused: There are American special forces & armed Kurdish militia in the northern no-fly zone, too. It doesn't prove he invited any of them in, or asked them to remain.

Ansar

I know Saddam supports anti-Israeli terrorist groups.

I haven't been able to find this linkage between Al Quieda & Saddam.
 
guilty pleasure said:
The very fact that there was no effort at all to hide the remains in that ware-house gives an indication that Saddam and his regime care nothing for human dignity .

In the report I saw there were civilians included - some badly mutilated,with faces burned off - there were pictures found documenting the progress of torture and ID cards .

You are nearly right, GP. The truth is that SH never worried about being caught because he believed that the impotent controlling power (the UN) would never have the gumption to do squat!!

He was right. They did'nt, don't and won't! He, like the Nazi regime who thought similarly, will now pay the price...unless the liberals who want Saddam to win have their way, in which case, all the propoganda and misinformation from the Arab networks will be seen as truth.

Rhumb
 
patient1 said:
Do you know something I missed in regard to an Al Q'uieda-Saddam connection? :confused: There are American special forces & armed Kurdish militia in the northern no-fly zone, too. It doesn't prove he invited any of them in, or asked them to remain.

Ansar

I know Saddam supports anti-Israeli terrorist groups.

I haven't been able to find this linkage between Al Quieda & Saddam.
There are of course feasible explanations that one can use to argue away a connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda - just as one could say he didn't know about the death camp (after all, it could have been somebody else doing it without his permission or knowledge). You know, plausible deniability and all that.

The thing is that I have no reason to believe Saddam or his regime when they deny anything anymore. They will deny everything to the world up until they are put in the grave because gullible people will keep coming up with excuses to believe them.

BTW, from the location I saw of the terrorist camp, it was in a section of Iraq that the Saddam regime controls (or did control until recently). If they were there then at the very least he knew about them, yet he denied it. He may not have been able to do much about the Kurds since we prevented him, but all he had to do was say "you know, there are these guys up here, and I think they are Al Qaeda - would you go in there and take care of them, or let me do it?" and we would have been all too happy to accomodate him.

So yeah, people are still making excuses for him - even when they don't like him. Go figure. :rolleyes:
 
I don't believe him either.

Let me see what else I can find that I've read before on this camp...
I'll get back to you.
 
If they're Iranian, maybe they're Zoroastrian, which would explain why they weren't buried. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
 
Olivianna said:
If they're Iranian, maybe they're Zoroastrian, which would explain why they weren't buried. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

US dollars funded the killing of what was it....2,000,000 people in that war?

Zoroastrianism is way cool.


zorro.gif
 
Lasher said:
This is interesting.

According to this report on bbc.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2921711.stm

The Iraqis say they're Iraqi soldiers killed during the Iran/Iraq war.

The Iranians say they're Iranian soldiers killed during the Iran/Iraq war.
This explains the many skulls found with bullet holes in the head, the docs of torture, why the remains are not buried and the shooting gallery?

Of course we will have to wait until investigators dig up the truth (intentional pun), and that will take a while, but my point was that the Saddam regime (what is left of it) has no credibility at all - none whatsoever. Assuming the worst is probably the closest estimation of the truth at this point in time.
 
Lasher said:
This is interesting.

According to this report on bbc.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2921711.stm

The Iraqis say they're Iraqi soldiers killed during the Iran/Iraq war.

The Iranians say they're Iranian soldiers killed during the Iran/Iraq war.

Sounds feasable since they are so old and they do still exchange bodies, and either way as the people on here that support the current iraq regime and denounce the US will tell you, it was saddams country and he was free to do as he saw fit... or it is just another tape fabricated by Hollywood... hell it's only 200 or so bodies anyways, for all we know now they could have been criminals who were sentenced to die by the iraqi justice system, and just maybe their justice system is just as slow as ours in executions... only after the fact though.

I still think the Quincy theory has the most merit... where's Oscar ?
 
Mr2U said:


I still think the Quincy theory has the most merit... where's Oscar ?

Production costs were a LOT lower there during the latter years of the show. It's the same place they filmed the fake moon landings.
 
Lancecastor said:
Production costs were a LOT lower there during the latter years of the show. It's the same place they filmed the fake moon landings.

Looking at those fake moon landings now I can't help but laugh, could whip one out on my workstation in a couple hours, but guess it was hi-tech at the time, and ya just gotta laugh at that JFK guy, all that one small step and little moon buggy stuff... all that crap they had people beliving back then, now they even go so far as blowing up fake space shuttles, granted the production quality is better though... what'll they come up with next ?? Smart bombs.... come on now :cool:
 
False Alarm by the USA (again), Puss....turns out the bones have injuries consitent with their being corpses from the 1980's US sponsored Iraq-Iran war, according now to the Pentagon.
 
The Heretic said:


BTW, from the location I saw of the terrorist camp, it was in a section of Iraq that the Saddam regime controls (or did control until recently). If they were there then at the very least he knew about them, yet he denied it. He may not have been able to do much about the Kurds since we prevented him, but all he had to do was say "you know, there are these guys up here, and I think they are Al Qaeda - would you go in there and take care of them, or let me do it?" and we would have been all too happy to accomodate him.


To summarize what I've been able to learn-

The stronghold is usually described as being in either the north of Iraq, or Kurdish controlled Iraq. It is by definition, since Ansar is a Kurdish group( with Arabs recently arrived from Afghanistan.).

Halabjah is the nearest town I've seen mapped. It's somewhat south of the 36th parallel, making it officially out of the no-fly zone. It's in the mountains along the Iranian border.

Personally, I'd describe it as eastern, not northern, Iraq.

For what it's worth. I didn't find anything about Saddam denying knowledge of their existence, only denials of association.

I've been asking the other questions. Why didn't the USA act against them if they were abusing our protection? If they were under Saddam's protection, why didn't we give him the same ultimatum we gave Mullah Omar?
After all, it was an Al Q'ueida affiliate expirimenting with chemical & biological weapons, & harboring Al Quieda refugees from Afghanistan.
 
patient1 said:
I've been asking the other questions. Why didn't the USA act against them if they were abusing our protection? If they were under Saddam's protection, why didn't we give him the same ultimatum we gave Mullah Omar?
After all, it was an Al Q'ueida affiliate expirimenting with chemical & biological weapons, & harboring Al Quieda refugees from Afghanistan.
The answer to your questions may be that we didn't have as much solid info as we do now with regards to exactly where these people were.

As for their being in a Kurdish area - it is my understanding that there are many different groups of Kurds, not all with the same political/religious associations or anti-Saddam sentiments. Also, my understanding is that the Saddam regime had a strong ground presence up there - maybe not enough to wipe out the anti-Saddam Kurds without air cover (which the US didn't allow them), but they were to the east of the Kurds and to the west of this terrorist camp, in short the camp was in "Kurdish territory" but in an area controlled by Saddam's military.
 
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