Death and writing

[CharleyH]

The easy answer is, why not?

Thanks, Els. So lets ask questions In and of ourselves. I wont ask tonight though.

(YOU wanna say something Sam )

 

[Edward Teach]

I don't have the same little spitting icon that I do have in yahoo, however: Sex and death and the many forms it comes in. Can sex be a part of death without it being snuff (NOT what I am going for. Obviously, we do this in horror, even Hollywood style where someone is offed in the moment of sex, generally a repressive monster release kind of intellectual take via Robin Wood, and I know in stories like City of Angels or ... ok, off on a different wave ...

THIS is what I meant:

IF we are erotic or porn writers, can we weave a sex story around death, OR is it something too hard for people to take? To emotional when they are looking for sex, or as erotic or porn writers, do we feel our audience wants only sex, or do they want more than that?

(hoping this makes sense - ask for clarity if need be, since it makes sense to me but I'm weird )

The movie "The Big Chill" was woven around death and was very sexy.

Death is part of life, sex is part of life. Yes an erotic story can be written around death.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that anything can be written around death. Humor can be written around death.

As to what the audience wants, some want one thing some want another. I honestly think most Lit readers just want sex but that is not all Lit readers.

Ed

 

[CharleyH]

The movie "The Big Chill" was woven around death and was very sexy.

Death is part of life, sex is part of life. Yes an erotic story can be written around death.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that anything can be written around death. Humor can be written around death.

As to what the audience wants, some want one thing some want another. I honestly think most Lit readers just want sex but that is not all Lit readers.

Ed

I barely read - just SO happy to see you. Where's the really HUGE SMILE! Kisses instead

 

[jfinn]

Does anyone have a story then, with death as a part theme? How did you come to write it?

I have several, two of them are on lit.

HC has a death theme running through it in parts. There's one minor character that dies of AIDs and that disease is talked about quite a lot through out the whole story. I've gotten some criticism for that. Some readers told me it a cheap shot at the heart strings, but I was writing about gay men living through the 80's and I just felt it would be unrealistic not to acknowledge what was happening then.

There's another story that has death as the major plot. It's called Always and it's posted here. I wrote it on the last day of the Halloween contest a while back and because I was in a hurry to post, it's not as polished as I'd like it to be (note to self, resubmit a cleaner copy) but it's not much more illiterate than most of me stuff.

It didn't start out as a death story, but that's how it ended up. Even the sex scene deals with death though it's certainly not snuff. I've had people I loved die and I guess I did draw on those emotions. but there is absolutely nothing else about it that isn't fiction.

I written other stories that deal with death and I've got couple of others I'm working on, some erotic, some not, that deal with it too. It's not like I set out to write about death and lots and lots of what I write has nothing to do with the grim reaper, but death is a part of all us, a common occurance we all share and it seems to me that it's something a writer should acknowledge as part of the human experience.

Jayne

 

[Edward Teach]

I barely read - just SO happy to see you. Where's the really HUGE SMILE! Kisses instead

You Girl
Words and Music
by
Stup Dity

Where’s that smile, girl, it’s in my head
Cause I got me some kisses answerin what choo said
You know you’re a reason that I came back here
Cause I missed your humor, cigarettes and cheer
Gal I like your vices and your advice too
I like most everything there is about you
I like most everything there is about you

BOMP -- chuck a bomp bomp
BOMP -- chuck a bomp bomp

Gonna slam me back a forty ounce bullet or two
Give some thought to that hot stuff I like about you

I like
I like it
I like about you
There’s a lot of that hot stuff I like about you.


Stup Dity​

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Saying that we should be able to write about death and sex because death is a part of life makes as much sense as saying that we should be able to write about disease and sex, because disease is part of life too. Anyone up for a Loving Wives-With-Diarrhea story?

I've written about sex and death, in my story "Tsunami", where two strangers have hot desperate sex as a way of dealing with the tragedy and death around them. I would even go so far as to say that this story draws a stronger link between death and sex than most. I wrote it because I'm a big believer in the redemptive and life-affirming powers of sex, and because I thought I could pull it off. Apparently I couldn't. It offended so many people that I pulled it from the site, and the fact was, the enormity of that tragedy made the sex seem almost ludicrous, no matter how much drama and meaning I tried to pump into it. Is there anything sexy about the death of the people who drowned in that wave? No. There's nothing sexy is anyone's death, unless you're a necrophiliac.

Sure you can throw a few deaths into your erotic story to give it the feeling of weight and pathos, and it's done all the time here. Every Christmas we get half a dozen stories featuring some plucky widow and her adorable tot who find a new Husband and Daddy on Christmas day, but that's not writing about death and sex. That's just a plot gimmick. The sex story that ends with the death of one of the lovers is likewise not about the sexuality of death. It's either a sex story in which someone dies, or a tragedy in which they have sex.

Death is loss. Death is grief. Death is the end. In the face of death, things like sex curl up and blow away.

Look, even when someone dies, at the moment when we stand closest to death ourselves, we don't dwell on it. The eulogy isn't about how great their death was, it's about the life they've left behind.

So if the question is, "Can you have death in a sex story?", the answer is sure, why not? Kill 'em all if you like.

But if the question is, "Is there a sexual dimension to death? Is there an erotic element in death?" I say the answer is no. I might be wrong, but if so, I'd like to see an example of a story where it's been done*.

*And let me repeat: vampire literature and horror/violence are not about death. Though we call them dead, vampires are quite as alive as we are, even more so, and horror/slasher movies are about violence, which is a whole other topic.

 

[NoJo]

Maybe for the dead. For the living?

That's such a simple and obvious, yet overlooked way of looking at death. We may be mortal, but our influence, good or bad, is like light waves, that continue to radiate after we implode. Anyone who worries overly about their own death should remember that it's our lives, and the lives of others we should be concerned with.

It's so easy, when we feel forgotten, to forget others, to become self-centred. But even when we're dead we have responsibility to the living.

 

[NoJo]

Saying that we should be able to write about death and sex because death is a part of life makes as much sense as saying that we should be able to write about tooth decay and sex or diarrhea and sex, because tooth decay and diarrhea are part of life too. Everything is a part of life, isn't it?

I've written about sex and death too, in my story "Tsunami", where two strangers have hot desperate sex as a way of dealing with the tragedy and death around them. I wrote it because the tsunami was the biggest environmental story of the year, and because I'm a big believer in the redemptive and life-affirming powers of sex. It offended so many people I pulled it from the site, and the fact was, the enormity of that tragedy made the sex seem almost ludicrous. Is there anything sexy about the death of the people who drowned in the wave? No. There's nothing sexy is anyone's death unless you're a necrophiliac.

Sure you can throw a few deaths into your erotic story to give it the feeling of weight and pathos, and it's done all the time here. Every Christmas we get half a dozen stories featuring some plucky widow and her adorable tot who find a new Husband and Daddy on Christmas day, but that's not writing about death and sex. That's just a plot gimmick. The sex story that ends with the death of one of the lovers is likewise not about the sexuality of death. It's either a sex story in which someone dies, or a tragedy in which they have sex.

Death is loss. Death is grief. Death is the end. In the face of death, things like sex curl up and blow away.

Look, even when someone dies, at the moment when we stand closest to death ourselves, we don't dwell on it. The eulogy isn't about how great their death was, it's about the life they've left behind.

So if the question is, "Can you have death in a sex story?", the answer is sure, why not? Kill 'em all.

But if the question is, "Is there a sexual dimension to death? Is there an erotic element in death?" I say the answer is no. I might be wrong, but if so, I'd like to see an example of a story where it's been done*.

*And let me repeat: vampire literature and horror/violence are not about death. Though we call them dead, vampires are quite as alive as we are, even more so, and horror/slasher movies are about violence, which is a whole other topic.

I was going to post something like that, Doc, but one of the things that stopped me is that I remembered writing a story about a man who associated the ultimate sexual pleasure with the moment of death: Annhiliation

 

[elsol]

If erotica cannot handle death, I suggest that we stop calling it literature.

If it can't deal with one of the most important elements of our experience, it's doesn't even get up to the level of comic books.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I was going to post something like that, Doc, but one of the things that stopped me is that I remembered writing a story about a man who associated the ultimate sexual pleasure with the moment of death: Annhiliation

If there is a sexual side to death, you'd expect it to have been explored in some form of lit or film by now. I was trying to think of works that look erotically at death and I came up with only a few:

In The Realm Of The Senses. I've never seen this Japanese film, but I've always remembered what I read about it. Two lovers are so obsessed with each other other and with experiencing the ultimate in sexual intimacy, that the man finally strangles the women as a sexual act.

That might qualify, but by my lights that's actually high-brow snuff, which is about murder rather than death. Murder and death are not the same thing. Murder is often a sexual metaphor. Death isn't.

Unnamed film (or maybe it was just a book) about car crashes. I don't remember the name of this one, and it was about 10 years ago or more, but I believe it was a film that looked at the car-crash fetish. There are some people who get off on looking at pictures of people killed in highway deaths, and they pass their pictures back and forth in a kind of fetsihist underground. They're especially big on the deaths of Hollywood stars, like James Dean and Jayne Mansfield.

A similar fetish has to do with images or stories of people being burned to death in building fires. This, to me, is kind of easier to understand, if even more disturbing, because fire is such a potent sexual image. Still, how you could find something sexually exciting in such a horrible death is totally beyond me, and I wouldn't be interested in reading about it.

Junkie Chic The eroticism of dying is well-known. A lot of romantic heroines are at death's door, and in the 80's or 90's there was the brief popularity of "junkie chic", fashion models shown as dying heroin addicts, often posed on the floor of public bathrooms, bus stations, etc. The fad passed rather quickly. Again, it wasn't about death, though. It seemed to be about the ethereal and transitory beauty of the doomed and simultaneously about the sadistic degradation of that beauty.

Necrophilia. This is the one true expression of eroticism-in-death as far as I can tell. If this turns you on, then go for it, but I don't think many people are going to follow you down that road. The things I understand as sexual are simply not to be found in this kind of encounter. It's simply revolting.

 

[shereads]

If there is a sexual side to death, you'd expect it to have been explored in some form of lit or film by now. I was trying to think of works that look erotically at death and I came up with only a few:

Add one more: All That Jazz.

Roy Scheider, on life support after a heart attack, faces Death, played by Jessica Lange as a quietly flirtateous, very patient angel. In flashbacks, he tries to justify his relationships with women. Between flashbacks, Death is seducing him - and being seduced by him.

When she first appears to him, Lange is obscured behind white veils, like a bride. Scene by scene, he allows her closer and she lets him see more of her, losing a layer or two of the bridal veil. When he finally sees her perfect face, unobscured, you know it will be at the cost of his life, but that the decision will be his. The chemistry between them and the built-up tension makes death seem irresistable, like sex after hours of foreplay.

Will he fight to remain alive for the sake of his art, his daughter and the women who love him? Or will he flatline so he can tumble the cool blond?

You should rent it.

 

[Edward Teach]

Charley's questions were:


Those of you who have seen death or experienced it, do you write of it or want to? Or is death like religion, to have experienced, but we don't speak of?

I know Imp wrote a wonderful Xmas story this past year, and (correct me if wrong) it was non-erotic ... so if you are an erotic writer, and thats what you are, do you do homage to death in an erotic story, no matter if a mother, father, family or stranger? Does it suit eroticism as an off shoot (NOT talking cronnenberg here )


THIS is what I meant:

IF we are erotic or porn writers, can we weave a sex story around death, OR is it something too hard for people to take? To emotional when they are looking for sex, or as erotic or porn writers, do we feel our audience wants only sex, or do they want more than that?

(hoping this makes sense - ask for clarity if need be, since it makes sense to me but I'm weird )




My answer was to her question.

However, I made a horrible, horrible mistake.

Instead of saying that death and sex are a part of people's lives I said that they were a part of "life." Oh my god!

Having to defend every word of every post gets a little old and is one of the things that is running people away from the AH. It is not only uncalled for, it is mean and rude.

As to the matter of things like sex curling up and blowing away in the face of death -- well, some people get closer to things living in the face of death. They appreciate the living and things of the living more and yes, some have more and better sex.

Ed

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Unnamed film (or maybe it was just a book) about car crashes. I don't remember the name of this one, and it was about 10 years ago or more, but I believe it was a film that looked at the car-crash fetish. There are some people who get off on looking at pictures of people killed in highway deaths, and they pass their pictures back and forth in a kind of fetsihist underground. They're especially big on the deaths of Hollywood stars, like James Dean and Jayne Mansfield.

A similar fetish has to do with images or stories of people being burned to death in building fires. This, to me, is kind of easier to understand, if even more disturbing, because fire is such a potent sexual image. Still, how you could find something sexually exciting in such a horrible death is totally beyond me, and I wouldn't be interested in reading about it.

That was Crash, an amazing book written by JG Ballard made into a passable film by David Cronenberg. Ultimately, it was nore about car-crashes and technology as a way of tapping into our own psychopathologies, a way of harnessing and physically manifesting our deepest innate perversity, than about car-crash fetish. It links three of the most defining characteristics of our time: sex, technology, and paranoia.

It's a book (/movie) that is undoubtedly pornographic, but one of the most evident proofs of why pornography should not be afraid to call itself literature. If for no other reason, there is why you should be interested in reading about it.

 

[sweetnpetite]

A smarter ass, I love that (swoon )

I get it, for me, but what about others. Some might find death to be inappropriate an issue, a secondary one for example, in a story that is supposed to be erotic or pornographic? (sorry for the distinction, I just believe there is one).

I think you gotta write what is placed on your heart to write.

Thinking of the thread about stephen king- who would have thought there would be an 'audience' for a toddler getting hit by a truck and dying, or an audience who would be willing to be put on a hook and yanked around this way and that, like he does in that book- and many others?

Two things you must always remember:

1) There will always be an audience (sometimes small, sometimes large) for anything you write. The idea that there *isn't* or *won't be* is a product of fear. (either from some marketing department or from our own fear that we are the only one to feel or think a certain way and that no one will be able to identify/empethize.]

1.) There will always be somebody to disaprove. Oh well- those are the people to ignore.

I'll say it again:

You gotta write what is placed on your heart for you to write. (ya gotta write what ya gotta write)

 

[dr_mabeuse]

However, I made a horrible, horrible mistake.

Instead of saying that death and sex are a part of people's lives I said that they were a part of "life." Oh my god!

Having to defend every word of every post gets a little old and is one of the things that is running people away from the AH. It is not only uncalled for, it is mean and rude.

As to the matter of things like sex curling up and blowing away in the face of death -- well, some people get closer to things living in the face of death. They appreciate the living and things of the living more and yes, some have more and better sex.

Ed

Sorry, Mr. Teach. I didn't mean to sound like I was coming down so hard, and it wasn't directed especially at you, and I'd hate to think I hurt the feelings of someone I like and respect here.

I only meant to point out that just because something's a part of life, it's not especially sexy. I understood Charely's question as asking if there's anything inherently erotic in the idea of death

Apologies again if I offended.

---dr.M.

 

[sweetnpetite]

bump.