Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

[KHAN-E]

Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistrust"

According to SciFiWire dated 20 January 04, the Robert A. Heinlein sci-fi classic The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is being scrutinized for a screenplay.

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And then of course there's the name._ "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?"_ It was a terrible title then and still is today._ Pick something better.

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What do YOU think? - Pilgrim

I think the film could be done and done well. But I'm not holding my breath. I fully expect Hollywood to dumb it down for mass acceptance. It's what they do best. "I, Robot" is the latest example.

I have always thought the title was GREAT! It certainly should be left as is if they intend to attract people who have read the book.

The adaptation they should have re-titled (better yet, not have made) was Puppet Masters. In fact they did retitle it. The film was called "Robert Heinlein's Puppet Masters". It was so far removed from Robert Heinlein's "Puppet Masters" as to be almost unrecognizable.

I hope they do better with "Mistress".

 

[KHAN-E]

I have. Starship troopers is a good one. I am also partial to his "Children's novels" Such as Have spacesuit will travel and Starbeast. I was also fond of any of the Lazarus long books.

I find nordic to be a stretch for me. I am dark haired and medium skin toned. The reason for all of the Wonder Woman references to me is that Shadowpaladin says I would look good as her. I am tall as well.

Hello, Amazon!

Nice to have somebody around to discuss Heinlein.

I thought this thread had died. I'm glad Pilgrim keeps on posting. And I'm glad others occassionally stop by.

Nice to meet you.

I was raised on Heinlein's juveniles and naturally graduated to his more adult books in my teen years. I LUV the Lazarus Long stories. "Friday" and "The Number of the Beast" are great, too.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

I think the film could be done and done well. But I'm not holding my breath. I fully expect Hollywood to dumb it down for mass acceptance. It's what they do best. "I, Robot" is the latest example.

I have always thought the title was GREAT! It certainly should be left as is if they intend to attract people who have read the book.

The adaptation they should have re-titled (better yet, not have made) was Puppet Masters. In fact they did retitle it. The film was called "Robert Heinlein's Puppet Masters". It was so far removed from Robert Heinlein's "Puppet Masters" as to be almost unrecognizable.

I hope they do better with "Mistress".

In what way is the movie different? At least they kept the beasic idea of the boss and "brother" and sister" going out to the farm to find out about UFO. I do wish they would have the meeting in the Congress with infected (?) congressman but I think it have a lot to do with the budget.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

I think the film could be done and done well. But I'm not holding my breath. I fully expect Hollywood to dumb it down for mass acceptance. It's what they do best. "I, Robot" is the latest example.

I have always thought the title was GREAT! It certainly should be left as is if they intend to attract people who have read the book.

By the way, I actually like I, Robot. That's because I realized that this movie is not an adaption of a book. Rather, it is a wholely new story that draws upon many different elements, such as Joan Calvin and missing robot and such. The reason why it's still "I, Robot" is that this series of short stories was about the 3 Laws itself and the movie focus on that, and at same time, update much of the assumptions dated from 1940's about machines thanks to recent revolution in robotics. (There is really people working to create a life-life human-style face with all it expressions for robots). So I think it's actually good. They could have just made a bad robot killers movies but they didn't.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Calling D.D. Harriman!

What would Mr. Heinlein think of all this events coming up? If I have to gusses he'ld be pleased as a punch since he wrote so many stories about brainy free spirits who didn't give a damn about what other peple think and went ahead and build their own spaceship.

Next stop, "Luna City"! I need to be there cause all my friends think I'm a lunatic. Then build an orbital colony which I will call Island Heinlein!


Los Angeles, CA — July 27, 2004
GO FOR LAUNCH! X PRIZE FOUNDATION ANNOUNCES TEAMS READY TO COMPETE FOR $10 MILLION

The American Mojave Aerospace Ventures Team announces launch dates for SpaceShipOne and the Canadian da Vinci Project Team announces roll-out date for their completed spaceship.

The X PRIZE Foundation announced key next steps today by two of its top competitors for the ANSARI X PRIZE. The American Mojave Aerospace Ventures, LLC Team (a partnership between Paul G. Allen and Burt Rutan and his team at Scaled Composites) announced today that it has given its official 60-day notice and has scheduled its first competition flight on September 29th, 2004, at the Mojave Airport Civilian Aerospace Test Center in Mojave, California. To win the $10 million, SpaceShipOne will need to make a second flight within two weeks, by October 13th, 2004.

In addition, the Canadian da Vinci Project Team, based in Toronto, Canada, announced its plans to roll-out its completed Wild Fire spacecraft for public viewing and photo opportunities on Thursday, Aug 5th, 2004, at its Downsview Airport hanger in Toronto. The da Vinci Project Team, widely heralded as a contender for the $10 million, will pursue its own ANSARI X PRIZE space flight attempts this Fall.

Also introduced to supporters and press was Amir Ansari, representing the Ansari family, the benefactors who titled the ANSARI X PRIZE, and Astronaut Rick Searfoss, the Chief Judge of the competition. The announcements took place at the Santa Monica Municipal Airport in Santa Monica, California, at 10:30 am PST.

"Eight years ago, under the Arch in St. Louis, we kicked off the X PRIZE competition. Today I'm pleased to announce that the first team is ready to make an attempt to claim the $10 million, with other teams close behind, said Dr. Peter H. Diamandis, Chairman and Founder of the X PRIZE Foundation. "The American Mojave Aerospace Ventures Team and the Canadian da Vinci Project Team are just two of the 26 competing groups who will someday make it possible for spaceflights to be conducted from commercial spaceports across the globe. When the ANSARI X PRIZE competition is won, it will herald the start of a new renaissance of spaceflight in which the general public will have their chance to fly next."

If successful, Mojave Aerospace Ventures will make history by launching a privately financed, manned spaceship to 100 km altitude, twice within two weeks, each carrying a pilot and the weight and volume equivalent of two additional passengers. On June 21st, Mike Melvill, a pilot for Mojave Aerospace Ventures, became the first commercial pilot to enter suborbital space, earning astronaut wings and a spot in the Guinness Book of World Records. Similar to the June flight, the competition launches will take place at the Mojave Airport Civilian Aerospace Test Center in Mojave, California. The public is invited and encouraged to attend the historic events. Parking passes for public attendance can be purchased on the X PRIZE website (www.xprize.org).

"The idea of competitions have always had a rich heritage in our society," said Paul G. Allen, sole investor of SpaceShipOne and partner in Mojave Aerospace Ventures, LLC. "This competition has proven that there are many different ways to attack the challenges set out by the ANSARI X PRIZE. From the start we have approached SpaceShipOne with a 'can-do, home-brew' attitude. We are grateful that our previous flights have brought even more attention to the ANSARI X PRIZE and given more momentum to the groundswell of excitement that is continuing to build for the long-term potential of affordable space exploration."

"I want to thank the X PRIZE Foundation for providing the inspiration in 1996, to get us little guys thinking about private development of manned space flight. Last month our team demonstrated that private companies can indeed conduct space flights without government help." stated Burt Rutan, Team Leader of the Mojave Aerospace Ventures Team and designer of both the White Knight and SpaceShipOne. "We are hopeful to complete both qualifying flights and to win the ANSARI X PRIZE."

Wild Fire, the Canadian da Vinci Project Team spacecraft, is also launched at high-altitude into suborbital space at 80,000 feet from an unmanned, reusable helium balloon. The Canadian da Vinci Project Team, considered one of the top ANSARI X PRIZE competitors, will reveal its Wild Fire space vehicle to the public for the first time on August 5th, 2004, at its Downsview Airport Hanger in Toronto.

"The da Vinci Project Team has made huge strides in the past year and we're excited to finally share Wild Fire with the public," noted Brian Feeney, da Vinci Project Team Leader. "We're in the commercial tourist race for the long haul and while working with an all-volunteer team, we've been able to accomplish major aviation and space milestones in pursuit of the ANSARI X PRIZE."

In addition, Colonel Rick Searfoss, pilot and commander of three Space Shuttle missions, was introduced as the Chief Judge of the ANSARI X PRIZE. "We have met with the Mojave Aerospace Ventures Team and we are prepared to ensure that the flights are well monitored and that all rules are followed carefully," said Col. Searfoss. "As an experienced astronaut, I can tell you that I'm personally excited to see the beginning of a new generation of spaceflight."

About the ANSARI X PRIZE Competition

Currently, 26 teams from around the globe are competing for the $10 million ANSARI X PRIZE. In order to win the competition, teams must build a safe and reusable space vehicle able to carry one pilot and the weight equivalent of two passengers, 100km (62 miles) into suborbital space. The vehicle must be privately financed and safely flown twice within a two-week period. The first registered ANSARI X PRIZE team to complete this feat will win the $10 million prize and a spectacular 5-foot trophy.

About the X PRIZE Foundation (www.xprize.org)

The X PRIZE Foundation is a not-for-profit educational organization with headquarters in St. Louis, Missouri. The Foundation's ANSARI X PRIZE Competition is supported by its Title Sponsor, the Ansari family, and Presenting Sponsor, Champ Car World Series. The Foundation is also supported by private donations from the St. Louis Community through an organization called the New Spirit of St. Louis Organization. The Foundation's mission is to educate the public about space travel, create educational programming for students and space enthusiasts, and provide incentives in the private sector to make space travel frequent and affordable for the general public. Several additional sponsorships for the ANSARI X PRIZE competition remain available to corporations or individuals who wish to support the contest and associate themselves with courage, determination, achievement, space, speed, high performance and technology.

To find out how individuals or corporations can join the efforts of the X PRIZE, or involve neighborhood schools or community centers with X PRIZE educational programs, visit www.xprize.org or contact the office at 636-519-9449

About the X PRIZE Foundation
The X PRIZE Foundation is a not-for-profit educational organization with headquarters in St. Louis, Missouri. Supported by private donations and the St. Louis community, the Foundation’s mission is to create educational programming for students and space enthusiasts as well as provide incentives in the private sector to make space travel frequent and affordable for the general public. Several additional sponsorships for the ANSARI X PRIZE competition remain available to corporations or individuals who wish to support the X PRIZE Foundation and associate themselves with space, speed and high technology.

To learn more about the ANSARI X PRIZE competition, please visit www.ansarixprize.org. To find out how individuals, educational organizations or corporations can join the efforts of the X PRIZE Foundation, please visit www.xprize.org or contact the office at +1 636 519 9449.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Preliminary Call for papers: Heinlein Studies Area

This from Lisa Edmonds in The Heinlein Journal Jan. 2004 (no. 14) which I got last month.

Popluar Culture Association/ American Culture Ass. National Conferance
March 23-25, 2005, San Diego, CA

This is a call for papers, panels, artwork, and other presentations related to the Heinlein Studies Area of the Popular Culture Assciation. I invite proposals and abstracts on any subject related to Robert A. Heinlein (biolographical, scholarly, critical, pedagogical) and his influences. Proposals and abstracts of 250 words will be due by October 15, 2004. A more extensive and formal call for papers will be sent out in early June and reprinted in the July issuse of the Heinlein Journal. Questions and proposals should be directed to

Lisa Edmonds
PCA Heinlein Studies Area Chair
rahstudies@yahoo.com

So if any of you got something and seeking fame,better git crackin'!

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

In what way is the movie different? At least they kept the beasic idea of the boss and "brother" and sister" going out to the farm to find out about UFO. I do wish they would have the meeting in the Congress with infected (?) congressman but I think it have a lot to do with the budget.

The novel contained a good deal of humor. The story was told in a very "film noir" style, with a sci-fi twist. The movie would have done well to include these elements.

There were also some very adult elements to the book, nudity and sexuality. I realize the movie makers could not have done the film in that way without receiving the dreaded NC-17 rating. But I missed those elements, nonetheless.

I think "Budget" was the big drawback on the entire project. From writing and direction to production values and special effects the film had a very low-budget "B-Grade" sci-fi feel.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

By the way, I actually like I, Robot. That's because I realized that this movie is not an adaption of a book. Rather, it is a wholely new story that draws upon many different elements, such as Joan Calvin and missing robot and such. The reason why it's still "I, Robot" is that this series of short stories was about the 3 Laws itself and the movie focus on that, and at same time, update much of the assumptions dated from 1940's about machines thanks to recent revolution in robotics. (There is really people working to create a life-life human-style face with all it expressions for robots). So I think it's actually good. They could have just made a bad robot killers movies but they didn't.

I understand that the film is not an adaptation of the novel. And I suppose that is my greatest complaint. If a film IS an adaptation it should retain the original title, as in "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress". If the film is merely based on elements or theme of the book, "I, Robot", they should change the title.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

The novel contained a good deal of humor. The story was told in a very "film noir" style, with a sci-fi twist. The movie would have done well to include these elements.

There were also some very adult elements to the book, nudity and sexuality. I realize the movie makers could not have done the film in that way without receiving the dreaded NC-17 rating. But I missed those elements, nonetheless.

I think "Budget" was the big drawback on the entire project. From writing and direction to production values and special effects the film had a very low-budget "B-Grade" sci-fi feel.

Let me ask you, dose the actress who plays Mary seems both hot and smart?

Also, I like the fact that they didn't make it a clone of Body Stachers which is an horror movie but instead it's a movie where good ol' human brains actually help solve the problem of invasion.

Like you I wish they left in the whole social nudity because this was one of Heinlein's smartest commentary on how social values are nothing more than reflection of economical and survival needs. One thing I like to shock people with is telling them that 99.5% or morality are nothing more than economic considerations. I would use Moses' ban on pigs as a example. I would point out that the pig have same digestive system as human (a reason why some were used for medical experiment subject) and that they need same amount of water as humans. In other word, humans and pigs would compete for the same scare water resource in the desert. To promote human survival over taste for the pork in the wilderness, the tribes need an taboo againest the pigs. That and not uncleaness is the reason for the ban on pork in Middle east's desert tribes. You never seen the same result in the wet climates.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

Let me ask you, dose the actress who plays Mary seems both hot and smart?

Yes, she was both attractive and intellegent, a very good combination. I'm glad Hollywood has started to cast women in roles of that sort. It seems that all too often a woman is either a "hot" airhead, or a sexless "brain". Women can be both sexy and smart.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Moon Is a Harsh Mistress Movie?

Yes, she was both attractive and intellegent, a very good combination. I'm glad Hollywood has started to cast women in roles of that sort. It seems that all too often a woman is either a "hot" airhead, or a sexless "brain". Women can be both sexy and smart.

What roles should Gillian Anderson play in Heinlein movies? And which other actresses? I like Brigget Moynaham as robo-shirk from "I, Robot" and I think she could play an tougher character too. I wonder if we can get Angelina Jolie as Maureen Johnson-Long? My mind reels from THIS idea. I can see how she can turn Lazarus' head.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Putting the F back in Freedom

<<-- Matt Stone and Trey Parker, the makers of the often libertarian South
Park series, are expected to release a new film in October, 2004.
Entitled "Team America: World Police," it's an action adventure about
"superheroes [who] fight to end terrorism and put tired celebrities out
of their misery." The tagline: "Putting the F back in Freedom." It's not
clear what exactly the plot will be, but I gather it will be offensive
to everyone, especially celebrities. You can see the trailer here:
<http://tamerica.notlong.com>>

I don't know about you but anybody who use that for the movie motto get my vote!

 

[Natty76]

Re: Heinlein's Aphorisms - 2nd Intermission

Originally posted by SlyFox:
Does anybody have any idea what RAH was referring to by the word "therbligs"??? I can't find it in any of my dictionaries... But it does sound like something to avoid if it interfers with the enjoyable things of life...

http://www.computeruser.com/resources/dictionary/definition.html?lookup=5237

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Heinlein's Aphorisms - 2nd Intermission

http://www.computeruser.com/resources/dictionary/definition.html?lookup=5237

It is absolutely amazing the things you can learn on Lit.!

 

[corbetphantom]

so anyway, like i mentioned on the incest thread last night i found out something interesting about our favorite subversive sci-fi author.

in the 60's he wrote and was a major consultant-type on a movie. the subject matter was a journey to the moon, and it was incredibly realistic for it's day. to the point where the astronauts "magnetic" boots clanged on the inside of the ship, but not onthe outside, where the sound would not have carried.


i wish i had written down the name of the film when they were talking about it...but they gave out all of the information and then said "and it was written by heinlein" so i missed it...

 

[sensualpilgrim]

so anyway, like i mentioned on the incest thread last night i found out something interesting about our favorite subversive sci-fi author.

in the 60's he wrote and was a major consultant-type on a movie. the subject matter was a journey to the moon, and it was incredibly realistic for it's day. to the point where the astronauts "magnetic" boots clanged on the inside of the ship, but not onthe outside, where the sound would not have carried.


i wish i had written down the name of the film when they were talking about it...but they gave out all of the information and then said "and it was written by heinlein" so i missed it...

It's "Destination Moon"

 

[corbetphantom]

*l* thanks...ok...guess it's not such new information...

 

[KHAN-E]

*l* thanks...ok...guess it's not such new information...

But it was new information for you (and perhaps others). That means you learned something, which is a good thing.

 

[corbetphantom]

*l* um...thanks?

*feels a bit like a special ed student*

 

[drexfurlow]

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[KHAN-E]

*l* um...thanks?

*feels a bit like a special ed student*

LOL

Ignorance is nothing shameful.

Choosing to remain Ignorant is Shameful!

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Good Morning

Hello:

I am new to this thread and completely daunted by the fact that it is as long as it is. As fascinated as I am by Heinlein, I don't know that I have the eye-power to catch up on his thread. I'll spend this post introducing myself.

I came up in science fiction like most kids. Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. When I started reading science fiction i was in my early teens and the first book I remember reading was Heinlein's "The Number of the Beast"

At first, I wanted to read it because I had a cursory knowledge of what that meant, having seen The Omen, but when I read that book, my eyes nearly fell out of my head!

I was immmediately enamored with Heinlein (and slightly aroused by all those pencil sketches at the beginnings of chapters) and started diving into his work. Stranger, Methusela's Children, Time Enough for Love, etc. I really enjoyed his later adult work so much. As a class project in high school we had to write to an author in an attempt to get them to write back to us and tell us about their writing process. I wrote to R.A.H. and got a return letter from his wife, but it was signed! (In my divorce I have lost/misplaced that letter as well as an early editor's copy of Number of the Beast- it breaks my heart to think of those losses).

Anyway, as I grew older and understood the subject matter of his character interactions better I realized that he had a very liberal sexual attitude and it was always a fun part of his fiction to read this stuff. I'm sure you guys have already pounded it all to death, but anyway, not surprisingly, I've been drawn here (as well as the incest thread) because of the subject matter (though I have no experience in that area myself).

I'd be interested in participating from this point further on, and would be glad to engage in PM conversations on any of these subjects with anyone who wants to strike up a conversation. Also, I took the book/character test and it has been determined I'd be best in "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" and I agree.

I'm very much of the opinion that other people are just background characters in the fiction book that is my reality. Sorry, don't mean to relegate any of you to fictional status any more than you already are, but it doesn't mean we can't all be friends, right?

Hoping to be part of the conversation....

-drexfurlow

WELL CUM to the Heinlein House.

"Eeeeeh, What's UP, Doc?"

I certainly do hope your nic is Doctor Ex Furlow. Otherwise my very best Bugs Bunny imitation was waisted.

It's nice to get to know you. (I look forward to seeing you over on "Incest Is Best", also .)

I can't imagine reading "Number of the Beast" as my initial introduction to Heinlein. That novel is VERY complex. But also LOTS of fun! I, too, LUV the drawings.

I would think the loss of such a letter and such a rare edition of one of Heinlein's works would be major losses. ("My ex can have the house, the car, and the bank account. Give me Heinlein!" )

Heinlein did have very liberal attitudes toward sexuality. It has recently been revealed (in the Afterword of "For Us the Living") that he and his second wife attended nudist camps and were involved in some swinging. He was a Libertarian in both thought and action.

In actuality, I don't think we've discussed the sexual aspects of Heinlein's work nearly enough. But, I LUV to discuss all things sexual. That's why I'm the Official Lit. Slut!

I'm a "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" kind of girl. At least according to the quiz.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Good Morning

WELL CUM to the Heinlein House.

"Eeeeeh, What's UP, Doc?"

I certainly do hope your nic is Doctor Ex Furlow. Otherwise my very best Bugs Bunny imitation was waisted.

It's nice to get to know you. (I look forward to seeing you over on "Incest Is Best", also .)

I can't imagine reading "Number of the Beast" as my initial introduction to Heinlein. That novel is VERY complex. But also LOTS of fun! I, too, LUV the drawings.

I would think the loss of such a letter and such a rare edition of one of Heinlein's works would be major losses. ("My ex can have the house, the car, and the bank account. Give me Heinlein!" )

Heinlein did have very liberal attitudes toward sexuality. It has recently been revealed (in the Afterword of "For Us the Living") that he and his second wife attended nudist camps and were involved in some swinging. He was a Libertarian in both thought and action.

In actuality, I don't think we've discussed the sexual aspects of Heinlein's work nearly enough. But, I LUV to discuss all things sexual. That's why I'm the Official Lit. Slut!

I'm a "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" kind of girl. At least according to the quiz.

Heinlein was indeed a man ahead of his time in his writing and his living style.
He was an early hero of mine and his works grew to suit my changing morals. Supplied many of my fantasies.

 

[bethesdabob]

I grew up in the fifties, remember my dad reading me the early Heinlein stuff, Rocket Ship Galileo, Citizen of the Galaxy, Starship Troopers, Red Planet, Waldo and Magic Inc..

They really got me interested in science, got me thinking too, think my love of space and science is all owed to his writings, they formed the basis of my early thought.

 

[drexfurlow]

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