COVID impacts

[KeithD]

So maybe all the US's sad lonely distant lifestyle will pay off!

For a serious writer, a "lonely, distant lifestyle" isn't necessarily sad--at least for a while. I haven't had to do much to self-isolate.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Well, maybe. Italy, particularly the north of italy where it is the worst, has a significantly higher population density (518 vs 87), a much higher average age (47 vs 39 median), and a strong habit of living with older relatives, plus social culture of close contact. So maybe all the US's sad lonely distant lifestyle will pay off!

What's the population density in NYC? In the San Francisco bay area? LA? Chicago? Seattle and surrounding areas?

 

[Javahead]

What's the population density in NYC? In the San Francisco bay area? LA? Chicago? Seattle and surrounding areas?

The San Francisco Bay Area? Per Wikipedia, 868 per square mile / 335 per square kilometer. And that’s including the rural periphery.

Probably triple that in San Jose, which has been described as “a collection of suburbs in search of a city” and 20 times that in San Francisco.

 

[KeithD]

NYC, 10,000 per square mile. Presumably all of these can be found by googling.

 

[JamesMiehoff]

You can and should when their choices impinge on the lives, health, and safety of others. Your choice rights don't extend unbidden into those of others. This is a case where they will do that. Social distancing is for everyone else around you, not just you.

Exactly, the level of social distancing is a choice. If you are concerned then hunker down in your house. Have your groceries delivered and don't go out. Treat it like the zombie apocalypse. We'll see you when it is over.

I'm am not being cavalier about it. I made a choice to go to the grocery store and shop without a mask, gloves and a level 2 hazmat suit. That was my choice. As was the choice of 19 of the 20 people that I did see with masks on, who were wearing them improperly.

That is my point. If you are partying on Daytona beach with a bunch of other people, you have made a choice. And so have they. If there are consequences, then they will have to deal with them.

On a positive note, my friend and his family that were in custody, I mean quarantine, for the Grand Princess were allowed to return home yesterday. They did their time and tested negative twice in 24 hours. They were driven by shuttle bus to the airport. No one could or would tell them the last time the bus had been decontaminated and whether it had been used to haul infected people. Their final instructions were to self quarantine for an additional 14 days once they got home. So if you are in the Pittsburgh area and are grabbing 6 cans of beans off the shelf, please put one back 'cause there are some people who haven't been home for a month and probably have no food. Your cooperation is appreciated.

James

 

[gordo12]

Locking down nursing home

Good luck with that. You'd have to be familiar with the industry to know how useless that would be.

People with various levels of dementia that can't remember something for 30 seconds. People who won't stay out of the common areas despite the fact they're not supposed to be using them now. Pet walkers. Smokers that need to go outside. People who insist on heading out into the community either alone or with family and God only knows what they pack back. Lazy staff. Uncaring staff. Dumb decisions by staff. Like the one that let in a daughter because mom needed her clothes washed. Elevators, buttons, doors and laundry room had to be sanitized.

Then of course there's the doting children. Yesterday a belligerent male physically forced his way through the quarantine and headed up to his mother's room because she needed him. Also a daughter with her mother's key fob snuck in a back door and used the elevator, totally avoiding the quarantine procedures to go up to her mother's room because her mother needed her. This was two separate incidents and buildings BTW.

In both cases the elevators and doors had to be cleaned and the people ejected.

Parking garages had to be closed to parking. People were sneaking in family because they could take the elevator directly to their floor and the main quarantine testing was at the main entry.

Most of these buildings have multiple entry points that can't be blocked due to fire regulations. Monitoring them all is impossible.

I could go on, I get regular info on all this. It's like herding cats.

Right now temperature is the only test available. Up to 1/2 the people can be symptom free and spreading the disease. There is no way of telling.

 

[KeithD]

I'm am not being cavalier about it.

Yes, you are. And you're disgusting. You should either change your attitude or be locked up until this is over.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

What's the population density in NYC? In the San Francisco bay area? LA? Chicago? Seattle and surrounding areas?

The San Francisco Bay Area? Per Wikipedia, 868 per square mile / 335 per square kilometer. And that’s including the rural periphery.

Probably triple that in San Jose, which has been described as “a collection of suburbs in search of a city” and 20 times that in San Francisco.

NYC, 10,000 per square mile. Presumably all of these can be found by googling.

You're familiar with the concept of a rhetorical question to illustrate a point, I'm sure.
That's what those were.

Comparing average population density in the US to the average population density in Italy is meaningless when discussing human to human transmission of disease.

The fact that so much of the US is sparsely populated won't change the math for the 70% of us who live in urban areas.

 

[KeithD]

The fact that so much of the US is sparsely populated won't change the math for the 70% of us who live in urban areas.

We're in a University town that's not large, but at least suburban-level density. My heart goes out to those young families, with tenuous jobs, smaller dwellings than permit the size of their families to be safely contained in, and with only a few weeks of financial backup.

Such a family across the road from me left a note on our mailbox yesterday to let my wife and me know to contact them if they could do anything to help us make it through this health crisis. Here I sit in a house well isolated from the street and neighbors, with six rooms each for my wife and I to move around in, with two other houses we could retreat to if we needed to, zero debt, hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, and supplies for months set. Our children are similarly protected, including safe jobs that can mostly be done from home.

And a family on the edge has shown concern for how we're doing.

And our federal government is not just failing totally in doing its part in this crisis, but we have an idiot at the helm who is making it worse every moment he isn't asleep.

I am in the at-high-risk categories, but I once was in lock-down at the office for a whole year overseas with my family in lockdown at our apartment during a multiple coup martial law period in one country and the same for a month during a bloody coup in another country--and I'm a full-time writer who could have my nose in a computer for twelve hours and be anywhere else in the universe in my imagination--so, as far as isolation for a few or many months, I think I've got this--better than the family across the road voicing their concern for us and offering help--and likely without a paycheck within days.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

We're in a University town that's not large, but at least suburban-level density. My heart goes out to those young families, with tenuous jobs, smaller dwellings than permit the size of their families to be safely contained in, and with only a few weeks of financial backup.

Based on other things you've said, I think I live a few hours down the interstate from you, in a city of 100K, with another 130K in the next city over and the county that surrounds both. All told, it's probably suburban level density, with some rural pockets. Not Montana level rural, but rural-ish.

I have a job that cannot be done from home, working in a confined area with people over 65, many of whom have chronic medical issues. Most of whom have also been taking medications that are hard on your system for a long time. We don't have the capability to take care of people with acute medical issues; that's not what we do. We send those people to our local hospitals, where they get absolutely the lowest priority and the most cursory evaluations (but that's a rant for a different day). If the local hospitals are swamped, and one of our people gets sick, what happens to them? We have no way isolate people (we're not legally allowed to do seclusion), and a significant population of people who wouldn't understand what we were trying to do anyway. And won't be able to comply with it.

If COVID19, or when COVID19 rears it's head in my hospital? It'll be an absolute shit show.

But -- I'm definitely gettting paid through all this, I have plenty of sick leave and PTO if I get sick. so, I'm grateful I'm not facing financial ruin on top of everything else.

I can sympathize with James's anxiety, if he's looking at his financial life falling apart. I'm anxious for other reasons. And i'm frustrated with the apparent inability to look at the worldwide picture to see the rationale for the steps that are being taken or recommended.

 

[KeithD]

I can sympathize with James's anxiety, if he's looking at his financial life falling apart. I'm anxious for other reasons. And i'm frustrated with the apparent inability to look at the worldwide picture to see the rationale for the steps that are being taken or recommended.

If we have to lock James away because he doesn't/won't care about anyone but himself, he won't have to worry about rent or food--as long as there are people well enough to deliver it to him. Well, unless the virus sweeps the jail.

I live in a 100,000-resident county surrounding a 47,000-resident independent city. A major hospital center's here, meaning anything going will be coming in to us. It's already out there in the community. The tests Liar Trump claims are available, of course, aren't available in any meaningful number here.

 

[RejectReality]

I live in one state and work in another. Because I'm in an essential supply chain occupation, I was issued a letter today intended to prevent me from being stopped and turned around by law enforcement in the event of border closings or shelter-in-place orders.

No positive tests yet in the county where I live or work. One south of the county where I live, and one west of the county where I work. No positive tests yet nationwide in the company.

They hired 30 temps — ten per shift — who are doing nothing but moving through the building wiping things down. They disabled the finger scanner on the time clocks, but you still have to use the touch screen. It does help in one way. The finger scanners were such garbage that it frequently took everyone a couple of tries to get it to work, so there's fewer people queued up waiting for their turn to attempt it.

Still no toilet paper to be found, but there was bread on the shelf today when I did my weekly shopping. No ground beef, but a reasonable amount of other cuts of meat. What surprises me is that people are wiping out Spam, but there's plenty of ready-cooked bacon available everywhere. That stuff lasts forever at room temperature ( at the very least, far longer than a month ) and would seem to be a preferable alternative to Spam.

Spam is just fine fried, but bacon takes like 50 seconds in the microwave.

Shipping out toilet paper, Purell, Clorox wipes, and the like. No shortages from the distribution end. People are just panic buying it as fast as it arrives. Absurd amounts of water going out for this time of year to C-stores. The box stores and grocery stores are getting wiped out, so people are wiping out the stop-n-robs as an alternative, apparently.

I shudder to think what people are paying for the John Wayne paper, spam, wipes, etc., we're shipping out to C-stores in huge quantities. We're running out of totes, and the bulk of the toilet paper is forcing split-loads, causing us to barely get trailers back in time to reload them again. The cooler dock had its largest day by far in 30 years on Tuesday.

:: Tommy Lee Jones voice :: A person is intelligent. People are stupid, panicky animals.

 

[ChloeTzang]

If we have to lock James away because he doesn't/won't care about anyone but himself, he won't have to worry about rent or food--as long as there are people well enough to deliver it to him. Well, unless the virus sweeps the jail.

I live in a 100,000-resident county surrounding a 47,000-resident independent city. A major hospital center's here, meaning anything going will be coming in to us. It's already out there in the community. The tests Liar Trump claims are available, of course, aren't available in any meaningful number here.

Half the country has the same fears and experience. Unemployment is rocketing,if you work in hospitality or retail or travel, it’s going to be dead for a while and assholes like that Marriott CEO aren’t helping.

We’ve already reached out to all our neighbors, some of whom are older. I’m going to work everyday, so I’m doing shopping and offered to do the same plus drop off at the door for our neighbors who are senior or who prefer to isolate. Increases’ my risk but that’s pretty high anyway given where I’m working so I don’t worry about it. At least I have the equipment and training. It’s the workers in retail supermarkets and pharmacies and essential services who are the real heroes in all this. Bless them all. Just wish the media would stop all the bullshit and focus on real news and helping people deal with this instead of instilling panic and fear. And as for WHO. That organization needs a purge. They can carry a lot of responsibility for this mess. I read that Taiwan notified them in December and they ignored because the Chinese government said nope. Idiots to believe anything mainland China says. No new cases my ass.

Now one thing I did read was that black seed oil is quite effective as an immune system booster and virus suppressor so I bought a couple of bottles of that plus Quercetin, COQ10 and C+Zinc. The black seed oil tastes absolutely disgusting and who knows. Might help and doesn’t hurt.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Now one thing I did read was that black seed oil is quite effective as an immune system booster and virus suppressor so I bought a couple of bottles of that plus Quercetin, COQ10 and C+Zinc. The black seed oil tastes absolutely disgusting and who knows. Might help and doesn’t hurt.

I have zero input on anything except this. I have bottles of black seed oil and have been taking with other similar supplements for years. It’s so effing gross. I have scleroderma (literally every woman in my immediate family does, and most also lupus too) so I’ve tried a lot of kooky stuff over the years to protect my respiratory and immune systems—for me black seed oil has nothing but placebo effect. But I hope it helps you if you’re using it, and helps others.

 

[Polyacrylate]

I was notified last night that one of my co-workers tested positive. His office is next door to mine. He's quarantining, and the rest of us have to talk with on-site medical every morning for the next two weeks. We also have to scrub in and decontaminate our building and some key process areas Monday morning.

The nature of where I work and what we do, shutting down or working from home aren't really options, so this could get interesting.

Just stay safe out there, everyone, and please use your heads!

 

[KeithD]

. . .

Yes, I'm aware of what your politics are, Chloe.

 

[oggbashan]

I'd like to help like Chloe but my risk factor is too high. I have had offers of help from my younger neighbours but most of my neighbours are older or even higher risk than me so I have declined most offers.

Although we are not preppers, we had a reasonable stock of food and paper products before the crisis started so we are not seriously worried by the empty shelves. Ever since we lived in a rural village subject to frequent electricity outages we have had camping gas and paraffin cookers and heaters, and multiple stocks of candles. We even have a portaloo and special toilet paper for use with it. There are some things we haven't been able to buy but we have alternatives.

One of my printer consumable suppliers has offered to deliver toilet paper as well. Although we don't need it, we know that some of our friends are running low so I have ordered a twelve-pack to distribute. I won't be surprised if it doesn't arrive. But if it does, I can help others.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Yes, I'm aware of what your politics are, Chloe.

Lol aren’t we all. I’ll put a lid on it and wish you all the best with this mess. All we can do for each other, really, isn’t it.

Black seed oil? I have no idea if it works, read up on it but it’s like all these natural remedies, some swear by it, some say nope. I figure if it increases your chances, why not. Doesn’t hurt. Tastes awful tho. Bwwaagbhbhh awful.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I'd like to help like Chloe but my risk factor is too high. I have had offers of help from my younger neighbours but most of my neighbours are older or even higher risk than me so I have declined most offers.

Although we are not preppers, we had a reasonable stock of food and paper products before the crisis started so we are not seriously worried by the empty shelves. Ever since we lived in a rural village subject to frequent electricity outages we have had camping gas and paraffin cookers and heaters, and multiple stocks of candles. We even have a portaloo and special toilet paper for use with it. There are some things we haven't been able to buy but we have alternatives.

One of my printer consumable suppliers has offered to deliver toilet paper as well. Although we don't need it, we know that some of our friends are running low so I have ordered a twelve-pack to distribute. I won't be surprised if it doesn't arrive. But if it does, I can help others.

Yes, you should definitely kick back at home Ogg. Put the neighbors kids to work. We have a neighborhood list for our street now, names, phone numbers, email, and anyone who needs prescriptions, that kind of thing. Got to meet a lot of neighbors (from a distance). I’m staying away unless someone needs shopping done tho. Our area is still free for now..... I’m ordering more coffee beans tho.

 

[yukonnights]

I live in one state and work in another. Because I'm in an essential supply chain occupation, I was issued a letter today intended to prevent me from being stopped and turned around by law enforcement in the event of border closings or shelter-in-place orders.

No positive tests yet in the county where I live or work. One south of the county where I live, and one west of the county where I work. No positive tests yet nationwide in the company.

They hired 30 temps — ten per shift — who are doing nothing but moving through the building wiping things down. They disabled the finger scanner on the time clocks, but you still have to use the touch screen. It does help in one way. The finger scanners were such garbage that it frequently took everyone a couple of tries to get it to work, so there's fewer people queued up waiting for their turn to attempt it.

Still no toilet paper to be found, but there was bread on the shelf today when I did my weekly shopping. No ground beef, but a reasonable amount of other cuts of meat. What surprises me is that people are wiping out Spam, but there's plenty of ready-cooked bacon available everywhere. That stuff lasts forever at room temperature ( at the very least, far longer than a month ) and would seem to be a preferable alternative to Spam.

Spam is just fine fried, but bacon takes like 50 seconds in the microwave.

Shipping out toilet paper, Purell, Clorox wipes, and the like. No shortages from the distribution end. People are just panic buying it as fast as it arrives. Absurd amounts of water going out for this time of year to C-stores. The box stores and grocery stores are getting wiped out, so people are wiping out the stop-n-robs as an alternative, apparently.

I shudder to think what people are paying for the John Wayne paper, spam, wipes, etc., we're shipping out to C-stores in huge quantities. We're running out of totes, and the bulk of the toilet paper is forcing split-loads, causing us to barely get trailers back in time to reload them again. The cooler dock had its largest day by far in 30 years on Tuesday.

:: Tommy Lee Jones voice :: A person is intelligent. People are stupid, panicky animals.

Is it just me? I don't get the big fear over toilet-paper I mean, I have plenty of old rags and a water faucet. Worst comes to worst, the shower is like two steps away.

And bottled water? Why? I haven't heard of any municipalities shutting off the water mains?

Oh, well — I never understood people very well anyway

 

[oggbashan]

Is it just me? I don't get the big fear over toilet-paper I mean, I have plenty of old rags and a water faucet. Worst comes to worst, the shower is like two steps away.

And bottled water? Why? I haven't heard of any municipalities shutting off the water mains?

Oh, well — I never understood people very well anyway

In the UK some sewers are being blocked because people are using alternatives to toilet paper and newspaper doesn't degrade so quickly.

 

[HeyAll]

RE: Toilet paper

Psychologists say people are hoarding that because big items make people feel safer, hence toilet paper and paper towels.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Is it just me? I don't get the big fear over toilet-paper I mean, I have plenty of old rags and a water faucet. Worst comes to worst, the shower is like two steps away.

And bottled water? Why? I haven't heard of any municipalities shutting off the water mains?

Oh, well — I never understood people very well anyway

Yes, the toilet paper thing is weird. Washing is far cleaner than wiping with tissue, as long as you have water. I guess it’s maybe a carryover from power outages and earthquakes? I admit to having a few big packs of toilet paper but I buy from Costco anyhow, and I always have stuff stashed away so I just bought more a few weeks ago. But I also have a couple of big boxes of dehydrated meals as well. Good for hiking and a fallback for stuff like this. Oh well, On a Prepper website I’d be an amateur. Here, I can laugh at myself.

And if anyone is interested, I just was passed a snippet from a Chinese friend in Taiwan where they’re reporting that China Mobile he seen a reduction of 7.5 million accounts since mid-December. Something tells me the Chines government is not being entirely truthful. Gasps!

 

[yukonnights]

In the UK some sewers are being blocked because people are using alternatives to toilet paper and newspaper doesn't degrade so quickly.

RE: Toilet paper

Psychologists say people are hoarding that because big items make people feel safer, hence toilet paper and paper towels.

Hmmm, newspaper. I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed — but, isn't a quick shower more practical that smearing newsprint all over me self? Maybe this is more of a British thing

HeyAll, I wish you could see me right now to prove that I really am laughing out loud. I don't know what to sa , but tonight I'm going to take a big bag of toilet paper to bed with me to see if I sleep better.

(wonder if I should get the 338 Winchester Magnum out of the attic and tuck it in beside my toilet paper? It's definitely big. Hmmm, if that sucker goes off by accident — it could turn my stash of TP into confetti. It'd be down to newspaper then — and I don't even get the newspaper — I ain't using my laptop for that, no way! ( I'll wait and see, maybe the TP will make me feel safe enough for now. Best not to take chances. )

But, if this is really true — and the doctors do say it's so; I've had my eye on a bright red Ford F350, four-door with an 8ft bed for awhile. Aaaand, looks like the price of gas should be trending down too! Yep, I'm feeling safer already (note to self: check to see if government might send the money for new truck as part of stimulus package — win/win situation!) (second note to self; Be sure to buy small step ladder if F-350 is a go.)

 

[yukonnights]

Yes, the toilet paper thing is weird. Washing is far cleaner than wiping with tissue, as long as you have water. I guess it’s maybe a carryover from power outages and earthquakes? I admit to having a few big packs of toilet paper but I buy from Costco anyhow, and I always have stuff stashed away so I just bought more a few weeks ago. But I also have a couple of big boxes of dehydrated meals as well. Good for hiking and a fallback for stuff like this. Oh well, On a Prepper website I’d be an amateur. Here, I can laugh at myself.

And if anyone is interested, I just was passed a snippet from a Chinese friend in Taiwan where they’re reporting that China Mobile he seen a reduction of 7.5 million accounts since mid-December. Something tells me the Chines government is not being entirely truthful. Gasps!

We joke, but truth is the idea is to limit the repeat trips back to buy another small package of TP. We too are fortunate to have a large pantry. And due to where we live, big purchases at the nearest Costco were already routine. We too made a supply run on about the second day the news broke that this might be coming our way here in the USA. Even that early, our Costco had empty shelves for some of the things we normally buy. We're good for now — but who knows how long this situation will persist?

I've read your posts — be careful, you're on the front line ~ (and I agree that the other heroes are the store employees and others who take a risk to keep society working.)