Controversial Sports Thought of the Day

[Weevil]

I'm not sure that "talent' makes one lick of difference in the NFL. I think it's all system and oversight.

 

[Shaft]

Actually, it's who does the best job masking their steroids....

 

[Problem Child]

Strike "controversial" and insert "stupid".

 

[KillerMuffin]

I think we should scrap the current system. No more than 15 men in a club. Now that's football.

 

[Weevil]

Strike "controversial" and insert "stupid".

Former #2 overall pick in the NFL Draft Ryan Leaf without a job

Undrafted Jeff Garcia coming off two straight pro-bowls

Former First Round pick John Avery tearing up the CFL

Undrafted Priest Holmes the best player in the NFL this year.

 

[Problem Child]

Former #2 overall pick in the NFL Draft Ryan Leaf without a job

Undrafted Jeff Garcia coming off two straight pro-bowls

Former First Round pick John Avery tearing up the CFL

Undrafted Priest Holmes the best player in the NFL this year.

What does this have to do with talent vs. system? NFL scouts don't have crystal balls.

If the system was everything, Ryan Leaf would have a job.

If talent had nothing to do with anything Jeff Garcia would be bagging groceries.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Former #2 overall pick in the NFL Draft Ryan Leaf without a job

Undrafted Jeff Garcia coming off two straight pro-bowls

Former First Round pick John Avery tearing up the CFL

Undrafted Priest Holmes the best player in the NFL this year.

Pick != Talent.

Get some guys from home depot in a system. Won't win the bowl.

 

[Weevil]

Talent, in my original post, is in quotation marks. I mean that what the scouts use to determine the draft order seems, to me, to be the most faulty of all the major sports.

Is there anyone, in any sport other than football, who has a Kurt Warner-esque story?

 

[Weevil]

Pick != Talent.

Get some guys from home depot in a system. Won't win the bowl.

Kurt Warner was bagging groceries a year before he won the super bowl.

 

[Weevil]

Also, Dick Vermeil comes to St. Louis and Marshall Faulk becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

Dick Vermeil comes to Kansas City and Priest Holmes becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

Strike "controversial" and insert "stupid".

Thanks PC, you said it all.

 

[Weevil]

Thanks PC, you said it all.

Notice you didn't actually dispute anything I said.

I guess, though, being from Detroit the concept of talent in the NFL escapes you.

 

[Problem Child]

Also, Dick Vermeil comes to St. Louis and Marshall Faulk becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

Dick Vermeil comes to Kansas City and Priest Holmes becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

That's because Dick Vermeil is very talented.

Nobody is disputing that a good system is a good thing to build a team on. I just don't think you can say off the cuff that it's more important than having talented players.

I think in some cases a great coach like Lombardi or Bill Walsh can take a group of mediocre players and make them play great as a team, but that's as much motivation and leadership as any "system".

 

[Weevil]

That's because Dick Vermeil is very talented.

Nobody is disputing that a good system is a good thing to build a team on. I just don't think you can say off the cuff that it's more important than having talented players.

I think in some cases a great coach like Lombardi or Bill Walsh can take a group of mediocre players and make them play great as a team, but that's as much motivation and leadership as any "system".

I'm including that as part of the system.

I'm just saying that it seems like, in todays NFL, that you can pick random guys off the scrap heap who get into the pro bowl.

What's the explanation for that?

 

[Problem Child]

I'm including that as part of the system. Yeah, i got that, hence the smiley.

I'm just saying that it seems like, in todays NFL, that you can pick random guys off the scrap heap who get into the pro bowl.

What's the explanation for that?

I don't think that you can say they get there with no or little talent. You're trying to make it an all or nothing deal. It's a combination of factors.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

Talent, in my original post, is in quotation marks. I mean that what the scouts use to determine the draft order seems, to me, to be the most faulty of all the major sports.

Is there anyone, in any sport other than football, who has a Kurt Warner-esque story?

LARRY BIRD!

 

[crappie master]

Also, Dick Vermeil comes to St. Louis and Marshall Faulk becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

Marshall Faulk was already the best pass catching back when he was with the Colts.

 

[Weevil]

LARRY BIRD!

You mean Larry Bird, 6th pick in the NBA draft?

 

[Weevil]

Marshall Faulk was already the best pass catching back when he was with the Colts.

Well, maybe.

The point remains though.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

Also, Dick Vermeil comes to St. Louis and Marshall Faulk becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

Dick Vermeil comes to Kansas City and Priest Holmes becomes the best pass catching back in the league.

So Dick likes pass catching backs. George Allen (Hall of fame coach) didn't.

Weevil, this thread is so full of holes it is staggering. There is no way you can qualify talent vs luck vs skill. There are too many intangibles.

 

[Weevil]

So Dick likes pass catching backs. George Allen (Hall of fame coach) didn't.

Weevil, this thread is so full of holes it is staggering. There is no way you can qualify talent vs luck vs skill. There are too many intangibles.

Undrafted Priest Holmes.

It says to me that Dick Vermeil could grab anyone and make him the next Marshall Faulk.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

You mean Larry Bird, 6th pick in the NBA draft?

Larry Bird was pick in the last round in his Jr. year by Red Auerbach (sp) on a whim. Unlike Magic, he did not declare for the draft and when Red picked him he went. He was picked #6 by (I'm guessing here) a Western Conference team also on the whim that he would not make the Celtics.

 

[Problem Child]

Undrafted Priest Holmes.

It says to me that Dick Vermeil could grab anyone and make him the next Marshall Faulk.

No, it says Dick Vermeil has an eye for talent. Dick Vermeil is one of the best coaches ever, but he doesn't have a magic wand, as much as it would appear he does. If Priest Holmes was playing for any very good team he would be doing well.

If system is the be-all end all, then why did George Seifert do so badly after he left San Fransisco, where he didn't do as well as Bill Walsh anyway. Pretty much the same system wasn't it?

How about Mike Holmgren? Did he totally change his system when he went from the Packers to the Seahawks?

Or did they both lose a little talent somewhere along the way?

 

[Backyard sweaty]

Undrafted Priest Holmes.

It says to me that Dick Vermeil could grab anyone and make him the next Marshall Faulk.

Where do I sign up........

 

[Weevil]

Larry Bird was pick in the last round in his Jr. year by Red Auerbach (sp) on a whim. Unlike Magic, he did not declare for the draft and when Red picked him he went. He was picked #6 by (I'm guessing here) a Western Conference team also on the whim that he would not make the Celtics.

Learn your basketball history. Bird was the #6 pick in the 1978 draft. He was drafted by the Boston Celtics.