Continental Café Culture

[oggbashan]

Has our UK Government lost its marbles?

I have spent today reviewing applications from clubs and pubs in our small town. They have been taking advantage of the Licensing Act 2003 to extend their drinking hours and to allow entertainment to continue beyond what used to be permitted.

My town is not Las Vegas. It is a small town of 35,000 people with an imbalance of population at both ends of the age range 0-16 and 70+. We have two night clubs that already cause disturbance with drunken customers walking through the town at 2 o'clock in the morning. They are usually just noisy, sometimes they commit minor acts of nuisance such as throwing the litter bins in the street (or in the sea) and very rarely there are a few fights that are more noise than action.

Now the local brewer has instructed all his pubs to apply to serve alcohol until 1am Sunday to Thursday and 2am Friday and Saturday with another hour drinking-up time. When will anyone sleep?

One local pub that has a clientele of average age 50+ states 'Stripping and Nudity will not be allowed before 7pm - to protect children who will not be allowed in the pub after 7pm.' I have never seen any children in the pub. I think stripping and nudity would kill off the clientele with heart attacks.

One 'night club' is currently open 12 noon until 11pm Monday to Wednesday, until midnight 30 on Thursday, and 0200 on Friday and Saturday. They want to change to:

Hours for serving alcohol:
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday 0400 to 1000 and 1000 to 0130.
Thursday 0400 to 1000 and 1000 to 0200
Friday and Saturday 0330 to 1000 and 1000 to 0230
Sunday 0400 to 1000 and 1000 to 0130

The sessions from 0330/0400 to 1000 are supposed to be for genuine night workers. How do they prove that? and if they are 'genuine night workers' shouldn't they be working at 0400?

Opening hours as above plus:
Half an hour extra on Friday and Saturday
An hour extra on Bank Holidays.

Entertainment including live and recorded amplified music and dance performance (including pole dancing, lap dancing, stripping) from 1200 every day until closing time.

The nearest houses are 25 feet away.

I do not think that these applications are encouraging the 'Continental Cafe Culture' that the Government thinks will happen with longer hours.

What would you think if this happened 25 feet from your front door?

Og

PS. I have objected and given my record so far I am likely to win several concessions. I'm not objecting to the dancing - just the hours of operation.

 

[erise]

I do not think that these applications are encouraging the 'Continental Cafe Culture' that the Government thinks will happen with longer hours.

What does long hours have to do with 'Continental Cafe Culture'?

...asks a contenental girl.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I do not think that these applications are encouraging the 'Continental Cafe Culture' that the Government thinks will happen with longer hours.

I don't know if the "Continental Café Culture" has that much to do with British pubs, and I seriously doubt it can be regulated like that.

The very concept of restricting drinking hours seems very foreign to me - another continental girl - and I have trouble associating the drinking itself with the Café Culture. The whole binge-drinking phenomenon you see in a lot of Britain, while also happening here in certain types of establishments, is not a significant part the continental Café scene, or even the night scene in most places.

As for those places being too close to residences, as you are fearing, no business shouldn't be exempt from noise regulations. If they pose a problem to neighbours, they need to take care of it - either by closing earlier or by moving...

 

[oggbashan]

...
As for those places being too close to residences, as you are fearing, no business shouldn't be exempt from noise regulations. If they pose a problem to neighbours, they need to take care of it - either by closing earlier or by moving...

Section 51 of the Licensing Act enables local residents to ask for a review of the license if they have complaints.

I expect to be asked to use Section 51 many times after 24 November when the new licenses come into effect. It won't be as easy as the Government claim - the resident has to identify themself, to give exact details of what happened, when and what action the resident took at the time. It doesn't help that I only recently found out that if the local Police are called by a resident and the Police DON'T attend because of other priorities, the incident is NOT logged and therefore cannot be used as evidence of a problem with the premises.

The local council's Environmental Protection Unit do not log calls or complaints unless they are in writing (e-mails and faxes do NOT count) and are specific about time, place and that the complaint is about one particular licensed premises. If there are several clubs/pubs close together, the resident will have to identify the trouble as having been caused by only ONE of them.

'Excuse me, Sir, you have just smashed my living room window. Do you mind telling me which club or pub you have just come from? Or which establishments you have visited tonight?'

I'll do my best to use Section 51. If I make an unsubstantiated complaint I can be fined £5,000.

Og

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Maybe you need more adequate laws, or better law enforcement. Whenever I had a complaint about noise, the police never failed to come, at whatever time of the night, and I live on a town with over 350,000 people...

 

[oggbashan]

Maybe you need more adequate laws, or better law enforcement. Whenever I had a complaint about noise, the police never failed to come, at whatever time of the night, and I live on a town with over 350,000 people...

Perhaps you are fortunate not to have drunken English 'tourists' who drink to excess. Our Government knows that young Englishmen and women abroad in Spain, Greece, Cyprus etc. who have easy access to cheap alcohol drink to excess and then cause problems. Almost any town in the UK has this problem already on Friday and Saturday nights. A small size town may have a nuisance rather than a threat. A larger English town or city can be really dangerous on a Friday and Saturday night - from people who are normally reasonable citizens before they drink so much alcohol that they don't know what they are doing (and sometimes mix it with drugs as well).

Og

 

[TheEarl]

I am cautiously optimistic. There will be a nightmare period immediately afterwards where the wankers go crazy and drink 24/7. Then, I (and Teflon Tony) am hoping that peopel will realise that they don't need to get a complete skinful in order to last the night completely drunk. They can 'top-up' as they go along and not run the risk of dancing sober!!!

I'm actually with Teflon on this one. A cautious man would've bemoaned the binge drinking culture and done fuck-all about it. At least Tony's showing his balls on this one and actually performing an action.

Whether it's the right one is something for time to tell...

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Perhaps you are fortunate not to have drunken English 'tourists' who drink to excess. Our Government knows that young Englishmen and women abroad in Spain, Greece, Cyprus etc. who have easy access to cheap alcohol drink to excess and then cause problems. Almost any town in the UK has this problem already on Friday and Saturday nights. A small size town may have a nuisance rather than a threat. A larger English town or city can be really dangerous on a Friday and Saturday night - from people who are normally reasonable citizens before they drink so much alcohol that they don't know what they are doing (and sometimes mix it with drugs as well).

Og

Well, there that area down by the quay, where all the really overpriced bars and pubs are located, and where English tourists can do whatever they want until morning without bothering anyone.

None of those would qualify as part of the "Continental Café Culture", though. The café crowd doesn't get drunk.

I think the major problem in England is that bars close too early, and are mostly located well within residential areas. When they close that early, the obvious consequence is that you'll get hordes of drunk people roaming the streets. The other problem, of course, is cultural. You make access to alcohol so regulated, that as soon as they possibly can, people drink as much as possible.

 

[scheherazade_79]

What would you think if this happened 25 feet from your front door?

Sabotage. It's the only answer. Spread some wild and insubstantiated rumour that Muslim extremists are holding secret meetings there.

Failing that... isn't it illegal to make excess noise in a residential area between the hours of 11-6??? I'm surprised they were given permission in the first place. If it goes ahead, log everything and encourage your neighbours to do the same. Use video cameras, recording equipment, cameras etc. Put together a nice little portfolio of the shit you're having to live through and send one copy to the local council, and another to a national newspaper. If it's in the news, the council are unlikely to sit back and do nothing about it.

You have my sympathy, Ogg.

 

[Black Tulip]

...
None of those would qualify as part of the "Continental Café Culture", though. The café crowd doesn't get drunk.

I think the major problem in England is that bars close too early, and are mostly located well within residential areas. When they close that early, the obvious consequence is that you'll get hordes of drunk people roaming the streets. The other problem, of course, is cultural. You make access to alcohol so regulated, that as soon as they possibly can, people drink as much as possible.

As another continental "girl" I have to agree with Lauren.

My city has 24/7 opening hours. LOL Even Amsterdam isn't that liberated.
For Holland I live in a big city. It's number 7 in terms of population.
Can't say that it gives major problems. Most bars close around 4.00 in the morning.

What's probably more important, most bartenders don't serve you alcohol when you've clearly had enough. And if you start making a nuisance of yourself you're thrown out.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

What's probably more important, most bartenders don't serve you alcohol when you've clearly had enough. And if you start making a nuisance of yourself you're thrown out.

Oh, definitely. The second someone starts showing signs of being out of control, they stop serving them. They know that otherwise there will be trouble for them, not to mention the nuisance to the other patrons - the majority of them - who are only trying to chill out and have a good time.