Consent?

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[richard_daily]

Well, i only wish people required consent of thread starters to take tone from civil to else where. .

That's not how society works, you don't need consent to speak your mind. Going down that path deflates the very real and important issue of consent within the sexual context that I thought you had actual interest in.

 

[richard_daily]

Pretty please, you have my consent to proceed.

Only because you said please... but I don't need your consent.

You have to pay people to have sex with you because you're boorish, arrogant, and pushy. You don't respect consent and likely boundaries.

I don't know what the sex-worker laws are where you live, but I hope that when you do violate consent, that the authorities will be able to prosecute you for it.

 

[richard_daily]

I'm honestly a little confused by this thread. I've followed along and I can't keep a focus on any one thing. So I've been pondering it and at this point I don't know that I have anything valuable to add. I can relay an example of a weird boundary that I have that gets crossed regularly, make of it what you will.

Society (where I live) deems that hugging is an appropriate action to take when meeting someone. It's used as a hello, goodbye, comfort, intimacy, and is something people do regularly. Having grown up surrounded by people that do this, you would think that it was something I could just do naturally.

The truth is, I don't like it. I don't enjoy being touched like that and I don't really want to touch other people beyond a handshake if it can be helped. In some cases it's assumed that because I am a woman, I am to be hugged (first time meetings). I much prefer the "manly" handshake. When people come in for the hug, I can't appear rude and back out (I've inadvertently offended people in the past). I see it coming in slow motion and every single time I cringe inwardly. I try to be the first to offer my hand as a signal that a handshake is fine. Sometimes it works and sometimes my hand is brushed aside and I'm brought in for a very enthusiastic hug. Again, I have to try not to grimace.

Smile MeekMe, they're just completely invading your personal space.

With family (his not mine, we don't really hug in mine), I'm at their mercy if they're huggy people. With friends (people that know me well) they understand that hugging is something I don't enjoy. So usually permission is asked before hugging me. If they ask, I usually allow it despite how much I'd really like to just say "no" sometimes. In one case my disdain for hugging is known and actively ignored.

Are they violating my consent? It's just an innocent hug, so what's the big deal? In some cases I do give my consent to be touched like that. In most cases it's just assumed that I consent to it. No one (besides certain friends) will ever ask if it's ok to hug me. It is just something people do and something I reluctantly participate in. If asked I would try to opt out, but at this point societal views say that I'm the weirdo and that it's a bad thing if I don't hug people. On the other hand, if I said "no" and they still hug me, they're not considered bad people. It's no big deal because everyone hugs, right? Hugging is the social norm, I hug people to please them, not me.

This relates to how I deal with intimate situations as well. I'm likely not going to say "no" to someone I want to please. This is incredibly important and means I need to ensure the person I'm with is compatible and has my best interests in mind.

I suppose this falls into the blurry boundary lines. Is this anything like what you were wondering about, Elle?

That is a blurry boundary, but in part because society expects it of you. In some circles of people I know, they ask if people are "huggers" before going in for one.

If you haven't consented to a hug, technically they are violating consent. How egregious the violation is, that's a matter for discussion.

I think that living in the society that we do, consent violations happen fairly regularly (think, work place sexual harassment), but hopefully in personal lives, we can limit them to a great deal, and engage in the kinds of engagements that we want.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Primalex]

Only because you said please... but I don't need your consent.

You don't respect consent and likely boundaries.

It does amuse me how you can extract that I don't respect consent from my statement that consent is a matter of the culture you are in and then, at the same time, you declare that the culture you are in does not require consent for your action and therefore you do not need it. And the most funny part is that you didn't even get this when you wrote this down.

You have to pay people to have sex with you because you're boorish, arrogant, and pushy.

That's it

I thought you would be able to write more about me than the patently obvious. Well, forget it - my disappointment is my problem. But why do you have the urge to expose your total lack of life experience regarding women?

 

[richard_daily]

It does amuse me how you can extract that I don't respect consent from my statement that consent is a matter of the culture you are in and then, at the same time, you declare that the culture you are in does not require consent for your action and therefore you do not need it. And the most funny part is that you didn't even get this when you wrote this down.

I'm basing off of threads that you have posted, your comments in re: consent, the fact that you're looking for dumb women, as indicated in your profile, and off of the two women who have contacted me via PM who said that you harass women around here and thanked me for putting you in your place. The rest was extrapolated from that data.

 

[richard_daily]

My interest here right now is in how consent in sexual context relates to consent in other aspects of our lives and persnality.

That's way too broad of a topic for a BDSM discussion forum, in my personal opinion.

 

[MeekMe]

That's way too broad of a topic for a BDSM discussion forum, in my personal opinion.

In which discussion forum would this be most appropriate?

We have many topics that discuss how BDSM has come to influence other aspects of our lives. Consent is a major topic that gets brought up in almost every discussion here in BDSM Talk. I think this this topic is well suited to this board.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Primalex]

The rest was extrapolated from that data.

The rest? What rest?

You make up that I believe consent in a real life partnership is irrelevant, because I don't mind to insult people in a free speech forum. That's not extrapolation. That's like me saying that you had bad grades in school, because your arguments here are those of an idiot.

 

[Primalex]

To get on-topic again - I have made quite some threads about the various aspects of consent. Not all developed the way I had hoped, but that's life. Feel free to check them out or ignore them.

What would you do if BDSM would be illegal?

Is there a line where kinky turns into sick?

How young is too young?

Love is unethical

Dominance | ecnanimoD

Forced swallowing

 

[richard_daily]

In which discussion forum would this be most appropriate?

We have many topics that discuss how BDSM has come to influence other aspects of our lives. Consent is a major topic that gets brought up in almost every discussion here in BDSM Talk. I think this this topic is well suited to this board.

From my understanding (and maybe I read this wrong), she was asking about consent outside of sexuality, and in a more philosophical manner. That doesn't have anything to do with BDSM, kink, or sexuality.

If I read that wrong, I'll need more clarification.

 

[Primalex]

If I read that wrong, I'll need more clarification.

You don't need more clarification, you just need to shut the fuck up and go back to the General Board. We are quite able to determine what we consider on- or offtopic here ourselves.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[richard_daily]

Ok, that's fair, I will clarify as much as needed, and am always happy to do so. . I can be hard to understand because of language.


I highlighted below from my post trying to clarify what I felt was a clear section. The question relates purely to BDSM.....but certainly has a philosophical bent, and as became pointed out through discussion, sociological and anthropological aspects too. But as we also like to say ' the best sex organ is the brain' and BDSM clearly exemplifies that just stimulating sex organs 'as the text books say' is not always enough for us I cannot see how this aspect CAN be separated for some of us from our arousal.
( maybe to detriment too, when thinking gets in the way. )

Ok, so are you asking to discuss how consent works outside of physical BDSM (re: a "scene" or physical interactions)? To me, it sounds like maybe you're asking about the emotional and intellectual elements of consent withing BDSM and power exchange?

Is that right?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Primalex]

Thank you Primalex. I will have a look at them.

I have welcomed Richard Daily's comments in this thread too. If I tolerate someone who 'hates me' I can tolerate a GBer, as I spend time there too.

This is the problem with people. You say:"I don't like you." and they turn it into "Oh, you hate me." You say:"Consent is a cultural issue." and they say:"Oh, you hate women."

Well, if I had known that you are content with gems of wisdom such as:"And when no means yes, and you've agreed to it and wanted it, that's consent.", I could have saved quite some time.

*shrugs*

 

[richard_daily]

Not really. But this could be relevant to discussion....emotion and intellect is.

I'm asking the consent you expect in relation to your sexual relationships ( to receive or give) how is it that it compares for your day to day life and personality. Do we respect or disrespect boundaries of consent similarly through other aspects of life? Are we consistent in our attitudes towards this? ( for me I think I am veering to 'no' at this time and this makes me uncomfortable somewhat)

Full and enthusiastic consent. Anything less muddies the waters too much.

There is room for gray areas in engagement, but only once consent has been fully realized.

Are you finding that you're not consistent with giving or asking for consent?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[richard_daily]

I am a consent giver ( almost exclusively).

The rest of my situation I find I am unable to discuss.

If you're finding that you are unable to discuss it, perhaps that's where the problem is?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]