Consensual non-consent (CNC)

[CuteSlaveLisa]

...My usual approach is "by being in a relationship with them for a long time first so I can tell the difference between feigned and actual distress, and by gradual exploration more than verbal negotiation"...

IHMO this is the "Gold Standard"

(joke) Jill and Joan were having coffee. Jill putting a small bag into her purse, says "Uggh, these (birth control) pills are SO expensive." "Well", says Joan, ""why not ask your beau to chip in half." "Oh", replies Jill, "we don't know each other well enough yet to discuss money."

Lisa Ann

 

[Bramblethorn]

IHMO this is the "Gold Standard"

It's what works for me, but not for everybody! Some people for mysterious reasons enjoy being able to get into BDSM play without several years of previous acquaintance...

(joke) Jill and Joan were having coffee. Jill putting a small bag into her purse, says "Uggh, these (birth control) pills are SO expensive." "Well", says Joan, ""why not ask your beau to chip in half." "Oh", replies Jill, "we don't know each other well enough yet to discuss money."

Heh. I like that one.

 

[Touch_Me_Daddy]

I think consensual non consensual is hot with my secretary

 

[Sesshy_Girl6623]

Subscribed

 

[Threadbare42]

I think consensual non consensual is so fucking hot. I love trying to put up a fight. I love being manhandled and thrown around like a rag doll.

I'd have to trust them first though. I'd love to try and resist and say no. Only to have him growl at me then pin me down. And roughly checking how wet I am. Something about a dominant man looking at me with serious eyes and he roughly fingers me and I'm saying no but my body reveals my true desires.

I'd love to dress up while doing this. Like my school girl uniforms. I'd love to roleplay as a student and a professor that can't control himself or even a cop.

Oh, to my dom side these kind of scenarios appeal to me the most when there is a formal context to it, like a professor or cop etc. because it makes it that much more inappropriate, and that added twist excites me a lot

 

[Sesshy_Girl6623]

I’ve always wanted to try CNC, but I feel that I’ve yet to meet a person that I can trust enough to do this. For now I just keep reading stories to get my fix.

 

[ChuckWolf]

This is definitely next-level stuff.

Personally, I'd be concerned about the neighbors not understanding what was going on and being put in a position with me & my partner trying to explain the situation to a couple of cops.

 

[Femi91]

Came out of lurk mode to try and learn more about this.

 

[QuasiSemiDemiEsqueIsh]

I've been doing this BDSM thing for sometime, but I've still never quite managed to put my finger on what CNC is actually is.

[Middle section of OP cut for space]

So, what is CNC to you? How does a CNC scene differ from a "regular" scene? How do you negotiate limits for a CNC scene, or do you? Is it more of a roleplay scene than your "regular" scene? Is a scene that pushes or even crosses soft limits automatically CNC?

Ok. Here’s the thing. I have c-PTSD/PTSD (not sure which, but I’m about to start therapy, so maybe I’ll learn) from rape and lifelong child abuse. I also have a preference for CNC. It’s all a bit jumbled up in my head, so I apologize in advance if this is confusing.

Disclaimer out of the way.

What it is for me: CNC is a bit like walking across a barbed-wire high wire suspended over a pack of hungry coyotes. That is: it’s really, really dangerous for me and I am absolutely not stepping one foot on that wire unless I have a very strong and trusted safety harness in the form of my d-type.

When I do have that harness, it can be empowering, freeing, and exciting as hell, but without it, it’s just not worth the risk.

How it differs from a regular scene: One aspect of my PTSD is that I struggle to assert myself. This means that, on a 24/7 or scene basis, I need to know that I don’t have to safe word; I can say “no” or even express reluctance, and my d-type will back off and respect that (or stop and explain why they want me to do a thing and see if that makes me more comfortable with it).

My consent was violated (not just sexually) as a matter of course when I was younger, so it’s imperative to me that my partners don’t do that. However, when we’ve negotiated a CNC scene in advance, I have time to build up my emotional armor, put the safety harness on, and get ready.

Basically, in a regular scene, my “no” or “I can’t” is as good as a safe word, but in a CNC scene, I know in advance that my d-type will be pushing me past what I think I can and can’t do.

I think I answered the next question, so I’ll skip to soft limits: I would say no, pushing soft limits isn’t automatically CNC. For me, something might be a soft limit if I’ll only do it under certain circumstances. Meeting those circumstances isn’t necessarily CNC, because the circumstances don’t always require it.

As an example, one of my soft limits is face slapping. The reason it’s a soft limit is because I can’t handle being slapped when I think the person slapping me is angry with me. If my primary partner slaps me playfully, that’s within the bounds, and isn’t inherently CNC.

In fact, I would say that, for mental health reasons, most of my soft limits should be as far from my CNC scenes as possible.

 

[Karabare]

This is exactly my style, I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before

 

[warriorprincess9]

CNC is my biggest fetish. I love being used controlled and helpless. I ache to be prey.

 

[seela]

Nice to see interest in this topic from new posters.

Do you have anything to add to the conversation or the questions from my first post?

So, what is CNC to you? How does a CNC scene differ from a "regular" scene? How do you negotiate limits for a CNC scene, or do you? Is it more of a roleplay scene than your "regular" scene? Is a scene that pushes or even crosses soft limits automatically CNC?

I must say, I'm still exactly as confused about this topic as I was when I first started the thread. There seem to be so many different opinions on what and how it is. And that's fine, there doesn't need to be a universal definition for CNC - there doesn't seem to be a universal definition for anything in BDSM, so it's not surprising.

 

[Tallsockguy]

I share the confusion.

The idea of consent is so central to how I think about BDSM that I can’t wrap my head around how CNC would work for me personally. I guess I just isn’t my kink? I guess my only thought is it is probably not riskier than most other forms of BDSM. They all seem risky - worth it - but risky.

 

[warriorprincess9]

So, what is CNC to you? Concenting to total use and abuse. I would only do CNC with sonome i completely trusted. Trust is essential. CNC should not be done with someone you play with on a casual basis.
How does a CNC scene differ from a "regular" scene? Anything could happen. Negotiation should take place prior. Example: if the submissive will be allowed to use a safeword. To me CNC is being helpless so in the past i trusted my Master so i declined a safeword or didmnt complain when he said no safeword.

Is a scene that pushes or even crosses soft limits automatically CNC? Im a painslut and love it rough and intense so yes it does at times.

i hope this helps. Let me know if you have other questions.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Cnc

I share the confusion.

The idea of consent is so central to how I think about BDSM that I can’t wrap my head around how CNC would work for me personally. I guess I just isn’t my kink? I guess my only thought is it is probably not riskier than most other forms of BDSM. They all seem risky - worth it - but risky.

I agree with you Consent and Trust are paramount to any real and honest lifestyle dynamic. D/s, M/s or what ever. Here is how CNC works in the real world outside of fantasy.

The parties AGREE and negotiate the CNC. Trust is absolute. The s type has to be able to trust the D type and vise versa. IMO CNC should never be considered unless the about two terms are met.

Usually it starts by the s type explaining that they have a fantasy. I will use the example of one of my previous slaves. She wanted to be abducted and used sexually seemingly completely against her will. (The D type can obviously come to the s type with a similar request of course.

So My slave wanted to be abducted. I put it on our list of things I wanted to do for her. We discussed it fairly often the 2 years she was my slave. It was established that if it would ever happen what the guidelines would be. At this point she trusted me and knew that I would never put her into situations where she would be hurt beyond her desire to be. So we had established this was something she really wanted. She had enjoyed being triple penetrated at my command in the same way. It was well established that if it ever happened she would be safe. For obvious reasons it was not established when/ if it would occur. That would ruin it for her if she knew it was happening on such and such day. The whole point to CNC is that the s type feel completely helpless.

So. She knew I was out of town for over a week. We stayed in daily contact daily. Prior to my trip we had gone to a club... and socialized. One of the other Doms who helped to facilitate her being triple penetrated had shown an interest in her. Everyone was very respectful of boundaries. She enjoyed being used by other men and women if I agreed to it.

So I called her up and set up a meeting after her work on Sunday. I explained how she was to dress to impress that one of the other Doms wanted to hang out with her while I was out of town. She was happy (but nervous) to obey. After work she dressed up really sexy and was suppose to meet him at a car garage and go from there. Dinner or whatever they agreed to. I had arranged it so that she was in her car when suddenly she had a hood over her face and pulled from her car. Hands bound and gagged before she could react to much of anything and thrown into the back seat of a large car. Her purse, phone and keys left behind in her Car. She was driven around a while and when the car finally stopped the man in the care took her vaginally and anally in the back seat while she was helpless, bound and gagged with a hood over her head.

After he was done using her he lifter off her hood and with a very satisfied smile and looked up into the eyes of her Master. She thought I was still 2 states away.. but I came back early to set up the abduction she always wanted. Thankfully, my careful planning made the scene work well and she was absolutely thrilled with the result. She even begged me to come home with her after I took her back to her car.

So.. basically CNC is where you negotiate and agree to play out NC play between trusted partners. Its a challenge even if all parties completely trust each other...because the Dom/Master wants to make it as real as possible for the s type. But as safe as he can for them as well.

Does this example help?

 

[HotBrand]

I didn't realise that a similar post had been set up on this; I'm similarly concerned about avoiding crossing the line, and ensuring that consent is right at the forefront of everything.

Really interested in the conversation going on here. Everyone is being amazing for trying to clarify a really exciting topic

 

[eroticspank]

CNC seems like it would be great in a relationship where both parties know each other well. Plus CNC can be different for different couples.....

ES

 

[faraday69]

I would be honoured if a female consented to agree to submit to me in a CNC scene.

 

[Blackandstrong]

Personal opinion is that I think it is bloody stupid to run the risk of either a ‘misunderstanding’ about what consent means or even worse that it ends in a tragedy during the ‘game’. There are plenty of ways to get our kicks through a whole range of sexual activity, without taking on unnecessary risks.

 

[eroticspank]

Of course there are risks and the possibility of misunderstanding. That is probably the reason this kind of thing stays in my fantasies and does not become a reality.

I really find it hot reading stories about it and talking about it, because it is about control, either taking it or giving it up. BUT it is hard to imagine it happening in real life.

I remember sharing a hotel room with a woman years ago. We were strangers and met that night. There was a major delay at the airport, everyone was stranded due to weather. We all scrambled to local hotels and I got the last room. This woman arrived after I did and they turned her away.

Long story short, I offered to share my room and we went to bed. We promised to stay on our sides of the bed, undressed separately in the bathroom, etc.

In the middle of the night she moved over to my side touching my ass. Now that I think about it, she was trying to get me to make the first sexual move. I did not, so eventually she grabbed my dick and got me hard in about 2 sec. She climbed on top in the Cowgirl position and fucked me until we both came. She told me not to ever tell anyone about it.

The next day we got up and went our separate ways, nothing was said about the night before. I guess it was a CNC situation because she never asked me if I wanted to fuck. In fact, after she grabbed my dick, she just shushed me by putting a finger to her mouth and telling me not to tell anyone about it. She never really had my consent. I am sure some people would say my consent was my erection. Wrong!

Can you imagine IF I had done that to her? Maybe she would have liked it, but the risk is too great ESPECIALLY since she was a stranger. It seems to be okay if a woman does it to a man but not so much if a man does it to a woman? A double standard maybe? The ironic part is that I was afraid to touch her tits or even kiss her thinking that might be going too far and she would accuse me of taking advantage....when in reality she was the one taking advantage.

ES

 

[eroticspank]

To me CNC is when I want to have sex but I don’t want to want it. If that makes sense. To assist with this the other half physically restrains me with his body, which instinctively makes me want to fight to regain control. He also says things to inflame the situation like comments about how weak or pathetic I am while he laughs and paws at me. We fight pretty hard with hair pulling on both side, light punching and kicking and a hell of a lot of slapping!

I’m quite keen to hear more thoughts and experiences about CNC as it seems to be one of the more neglected (and potentially controversial) areas of BDSM. Be good see if there are any specifics I don’t know about that I could uh, borrow....

.
There seem to be degrees of CNC just like there are degrees of pain/impact play. So much of this stuff is deep in our minds so it effects each of us differently. Plus our experiences throughout life and our personalities shape how we react to CNC and or the degree of CNC that a person enjoys.

Reluctance is a great word as part of CNC. I read a lot of the reluctance/ non consent stories on lit. I like what Ropebunny mentions above. She does want sex but does not want to want it. That is like reluctance. I dated a girl that didn't like to admit she was horny. That was not the only reason. She didn't like being out of control and during sex she was out of control, almost embarrassed for her lust and sexual hunger. So she waited on me to have sex and there were times that she was VERY wet when I entered her. I would scold her and tell her she was such a slut, that did embarrass her and turned her on even more. But to get her going she had to be "forced" into the bedroom. We didn't fight like above but I gave her orders and she followed them reluctantly at first.

I have had wrestling matches with girls I dated that ended up in sex and PIV. This one girl would tell me, "No sex for you!" and then we would wrestle for about 20 min until I pinned and restrained her. We did this naked most of the time or if not we ended up naked. There were no safe words, but if she said, "That hurts" I would stop right away. Sometimes she would say it and had a look in her eye that meant she was just kidding.....then I didn't stop or stop just a second to be sure.

It is hard to describe a CNC event. It is like the CNC scene is foreplay that has been going on for a long time. Emotions, lust, physical desire and taboo thoughts all build in both people. One person acknowledging it, the other feels it, is unsure about, afraid of it. It takes one person to push past barriers and fears and get the couple on the way to wonderful sex. To me, the end of the CNC scene is the hardest to describe. I see the end once the man enters the woman. It is over, she can't fight anymore....they are on to making love. That is when both cry out in pleasure, attitudes and comments change, love takes over. The process to get there is intense foreplay in the form of CNC and the result is wonderful physical and emotional release.


ES

 

[Richelieujuniour]

The name does not specify that both parts have to happen at the same time. So, as I said, TO ME it means that sub asks to be in a situation where he knows he will not be consenting to it in that moment. The timeline will be consent first, probably confirm that consent right before, non-con during, decide whether it was worth it and if you want a repeat much later.

A good example would be a post orgasm play. I can’t imagine anybody not safewording out of it, but I definitely can imagine asking for it. And asking again at the next playtime.

Excellent example!

 

[ehewitt391]

I've been doing this BDSM thing for sometime, but I've still never quite managed to put my finger on what CNC is actually is.

The part I don't really understand is how it is different from anything else that you do with your partner(s). I talked about this with someone and was told that in essence it boils down to the pyl being able to fight back, scream and say no to things that happen and the PYL not taking it into account. The only way to stop is by safewording and up until then everything is a fair game within preset rules. That seems like an easy enough explanation, but I'm sure there's more to the topic than just that. Because to me that doesn't seem like it's all that different from BDSM in general. A lot of people use safewords, like to fight back and like to have their (soft) limits pushed or crossed. Maybe they're all doing CNC?

I think at least in part the reason I struggle understanding CNC is that with a person I get along with well enough to consider doing a CNC scene (at least based on my understanding of what it is) my go-to mode is a doormat people pleaser. In doormat mode I just say yes to everything and if I happen to say no, I don't really expect it to be taken into account anyways. There's no roleplay aspect to it ever, though. It isn't specifically negotiated either. It just...is. Although I do inform my partners about my doormat tendencies when I notice that happening so that we can talk about it and decide how to go forward - not everybody is a fan of the doormat thing.

So, what is CNC to you? How does a CNC scene differ from a "regular" scene? How do you negotiate limits for a CNC scene, or do you? Is it more of a roleplay scene than your "regular" scene? Is a scene that pushes or even crosses soft limits automatically CNC?

You shouldn't do a CNC scene with anyone that u don't know very well an you have to be able to discuss what her limits are before hand an have a safe word but it helps to have a change activity or a yellow word so they have a way to tell you to slow down, change positions or whip a different spot an on t kill her excitement or mood by saying a safeword an stopping everything at once ......

 

[IrisAlthea]

It is an interesting thread.
I wasn’t here when you posted it and when it resurfaced yesterday I was going to answer but then I felt like my answer needed an a alignment chart for BDSM and the distraction was a fact.

The part I don't really understand is how it is different from anything else that you do with your partner(s). I talked about this with someone and was told that in essence it boils down to the pyl being able to fight back, scream and say no to things that happen and the PYL not taking it into account. The only way to stop is by safewording and up until then everything is a fair game within preset rules. That seems like an easy enough explanation, but I'm sure there's more to the topic than just that. Because to me that doesn't seem like it's all that different from BDSM in general. A

I felt the same when I first heard the term.
I think it might have come up because of the increased focus on consent when it comes to sex in general.
When I think back on when I first started hearing the term BDSM and first started running into people into it, it felt like there was a lot of focus on D/s, structure, protocol and on normalizing BDSM.
I was definitely coming from the more chaotic/evil corner of things (see, here’s the alignment chart stuff) and did not feel at home with the ”ThankyouSirmayIhaveanother!” or ”If you are submissive, you submit without struggle”.
I can totally see myself trying to come up with a term like CNC or ”battlefuck” as there were some fun threads about way back, to define what I wanted, if I had been on more of a partner search journey back then.

So, what is CNC to you? How does a CNC scene differ from a "regular" scene? How do you negotiate limits for a CNC scene, or do you? Is it more of a roleplay scene than your "regular" scene? Is a scene that pushes or even crosses soft limits automatically CNC?

I think Bramblethorne describes it well:

Default BDSM: the pyl can stop things at any time by safewording or appropriate substitute.

CnC: same, but the fantasy that they want to stop things and can't is part of the thrill for at least one participant.

More likely to involve people struggling or saying "no, stop, don't", I would've thought?

For me personally, I also relate a lot to what Ropebunny wrote:

CNC is when I want to have sex but I don’t want to want it.

I wouldn’t say that it is that I don’t want it, but more that it’s kind of hot that I don’t want it or feel like it at the moment.
And it’s one of those ”Please don’t ask me to explain why” things, because it makes absolutely no sense to me either.

This is different from a ‘regular’ scene in that there is no real sensuality involved

To me, what is hot in these situations is more about tension, distance, difference, as opposed to other situations where the closeness, intimacy and connection is the attraction.
Don’t know if that makes any sense either?

We don’t really negotiate limits. Both of us certainly don’t want to physically or mentally harm each other and as we both stay mentally involved with what she going on you pick up quickly from non-verbal cues if anything is off. If unexpected buttons are pushed the old “not having fun” works to pause things but no one has said that in a long time...

This is mostly how things work for us, when we have done things like that.
We have been together forever and care about each other and tend to stay at the shallow and more playful end of the pool anyway.

I have to admit I was less than careful about negotiating and verbally communicating beforehand in younger and more casual times too, but I have been lucky with my partners in that I haven’t had any really bad things happen in that kind of context.
I also think there was a noticeable difference between Iris protesting and fighting and Iris trying to stop things and getting away for real, which is helpful as long as the partner is…benevolent is not quite it but I can’t come up with a better word right now.

Pretty often CNC is talked about as something risky that you should only do with someone you know really well and trust fully etc. From this point of view it doesn't seem at all riskier than any other BDSM scene.

I think what Bramblethorn talks about in the quote below, is something that can increase risk.
And I think the risk for the top might be bigger than in non CNC scenes, because how it looks from the outside.
There is more risk of an outsider misinterpreting and taking action perhaps and if it would turn into a legal matter for some reason, I think it would be harder to get it accepted as play/sex with consent.

In non-CNC play, if somebody says "stop, you're hurting me", that's my cue to stop IMMEDIATELY, apologise, and help them. In CNC, I need to be able to distinguish between a "stop" that's part of the game and one that isn't, so we need to put more work into safewords or we need to know one another well enough to recognise the difference through other cues.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I know this is a zombie thread, but I still didn’t want to scroll past without any reaction.

Can you imagine IF I had done that to her? Maybe she would have liked it, but the risk is too great ESPECIALLY since she was a stranger. It seems to be okay if a woman does it to a man but not so much if a man does it to a woman? A double standard maybe?

I don’t think it is different really, but there are absolutely a lot of people who have double standards about this and other things.

I have been in similar situations, being in bed with someone, in what was supposed to be no-sexual, but where he took initiative to make it sexual.
In one case I stopped it and said I did not want to go down that road and it was accepted.
In another case, we did go down that road, hrmm, twice actually.
I consider it consesual, without a word having been spoken about it, because there was plenty of space and opportunity to tell him no.
To me his initiative was a question and my leaning into it was the answer. There is a lot of room for misunderstandings though, so risky behaviour with a relative stranger.

She never really had my consent. I am sure some people would say my consent was my erection. Wrong!

Agreed.
An involountary, physical response is not consent.

The ironic part is that I was afraid to touch her tits or even kiss her thinking that might be going too far and she would accuse me of taking advantage....when in reality she was the one taking advantage.

I think the biggest risk with this kind of unclear communication about consent is in cases like this, when someone feels unable to say no and the other is unaware about it.
Because she might well have thought that you would say no if you wanted to stop it.

I think this is one case where there might be a double standard for many. It is often talked about women feeling unable to say no out of fear, but lots of people seem unaware that men can feel the same way, because they are afraid of being accused of something, or because there are some scary women out there too.

In any case (and I know that this is very controversial for many), I think there is room for misunderstandings and plain old human incompetence between consent and non-consent.
Aiming for more clear communication and getting rid of some of those double standards, especially around people you don’t know very well, is probably the best way to avoid those fuck ups.